214 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

RF Greywolf, on 18 February 2016 - 12:20 PM, said:

Isn't that part of the problem though? It's sad that you have to ***** on a twitter to get any response. Is there a reason for the forums anymore? (beside forum warrioring, making up rumors about MS and finding out what killed people and is 'OMG OP')

You just need to level up your twittermancy. I made a twitter solely to b!tch at Russ about MWO because that is the only way he'll see anything I have to say.

Yes, I wish Russ would read these forums or have someone do it.

No, b!tching it on the forums will not do anything since they won't see it anyway.

Edited by pwnface, 18 February 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[Mystere]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 18 February 2016 - 12:39 PM, said:

There is a difference between being effective, and too effective (making all other weapons useless in comparison), but I suspect you knew that already and were just being a smart-***.

Either way, with this hotfix, hopefully we can get some real testing done to see whether they need to be toned down or not.

Considering people were already crying even before seeing anything, and the only thing definite so far is an intended feature long forgotten but now apparently despised, I think I'm right on the money.

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

You just need to level up your twittermancy. I made a twitter solely to b!tch at Russ about MWO because that is the only way he'll see anything I have to say.

Yes, I wish Russ would read these forums or have someone do it.

No, b!tching it on the forums will not do anything since they won't see it anyway.

Considering that is the #3 cesspit of humanity, with Reddit and Facebook at #1 and #2 respectively, I think I'll pass and leave that to you folks.

[PurpleNinja]

Thanks for the info, I haven't realized flamers work this way.
Reviving the Firestarters.

[ZenFool]

I've yet to see a single video or twitch stream where this "exploit" is being used to actually gain an advantage in a REAL fight. I've seen all sorts of playtesting with one dude in a private match. That proves its OP 1v1 at extremely short range. How about just ONE of you "flamers op" crowd show me how awesome it is in a real match???

[VorpalAnvil]

Bud Crue, on 18 February 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

Forgive my ignorance, but is this another T1 vs the rest of us problem?

Saw a lot of flamers last night in the underhive, including on my mechs. Only managed to use them to successfully lock down more than one enemy, on one match. Rest of the time I just got blasted by a teammate of the enemy I was trying to shut down. Same happened in every case I saw, when someone else was doing it. The extended time at close range makes this a pretty hard weapon for most of us crappier players to use effectively. At lower levels (where the vast majority of us are) I just don't see the flamer "exploit" (or its intended performance) being a big deal.

So is the fear of the exploit (or whatever) a concern for those at the top? If so, why? You guys presumably use teamwork better than us scrubs. From what I have seen only teamwork can make em work effectively but it is also the best way to counter them. Yet, if us scrub players aren't having a problem (at least I am not seeing any) why would anyone?

**** rolls downhill...

[Mcgral18]

ZenFool, on 18 February 2016 - 01:42 PM, said:

I've yet to see a single video or twitch stream where this "exploit" is being used to actually gain an advantage in a REAL fight. I've seen all sorts of playtesting with one dude in a private match. That proves its OP 1v1 at extremely short range. How about just ONE of you "flamers op" crowd show me how awesome it is in a real match???

Well, I've gotten 8 headshots directly caused by Flamer overheating over the past 2 days, so there's that.
Of course, that is also a result of the Red shooting and overheating themselves...but I couldn't help myself.

Multiple Dozen overheated, and a half dozen who blew themselves up (override)

It works, because you can keep your heat even, or at a marginal increase, while they stay at their cap.
That is an advantage, but the headshot is only possible against stragglers.

Edited by Mcgral18, 18 February 2016 - 01:56 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 18 February 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Considering people were already crying even before seeing anything, and the only thing definite so far is an intended feature long forgotten but now apparently despised, I think I'm right on the money.

Well it hasn't necessarily been long forgotten, it got brought up every time someone tried to revitalize the discussion about poor flamers, it just never yielded any results.

As for people crying, I'm honestly don't care, I want to ride this out to see how everything shakes out and whether or not they really are OP (for science). Honestly as far as comp play goes, you probably won't see them on anything but maybe a few lights and brawlers.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 February 2016 - 02:01 PM.

[ZenFool]

Mcgral18, on 18 February 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Well, I've gotten 8 headshots directly caused by Flamer overheating over the past 2 days, so there's that.
Of course, that is also a result of the Red shooting and overheating themselves...but I couldn't help myself.

Multiple Dozen overheated, and a half dozen who blew themselves up (override)

It works, because you can keep your heat even, or at a marginal increase, while they stay at their cap.
That is an advantage, but the headshot is only possible against stragglers.

No vids? You'd think there would be tons of vids since its so easy. As to the overheat thing, I expect people will learn to adapt given more than TWO freaking days.

[C E Dwyer]

Helsbane, on 17 February 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

Well, the only real solution is for a group with Tier 5 alt accounts to find Russ in game and stun lock him the entire match. That should prove the point in the same manner that worked for knockdowns....

You mean BBQ Russ not Dragon bowl him this time around ?

I just don't believe that something this badly constructed made it through quality control...

or...

Edited by Cathy, 18 February 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[riverslq]

What was the over-under on flamer stun-locks being the next meta?
I had pop-tarts right, but all those years ago I never would've guessed flamers!

[VorpalAnvil]

Phra, on 18 February 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Let's deal with the problem once it becomes one, not before.

Let's rebuild the house after it burns down, not fix the faulty gas main before the fact. Are you even slightly aware of how irrational and illogical you are being?

[DAYLEET]

Mcgral18, on 18 February 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

Well, I've gotten 8 headshots directly caused by Flamer overheating over the past 2 days, so there's that.
Of course, that is also a result of the Red shooting and overheating themselves...but I couldn't help myself.

Multiple Dozen overheated, and a half dozen who blew themselves up (override)

It works, because you can keep your heat even, or at a marginal increase, while they stay at their cap.
That is an advantage, but the headshot is only possible against stragglers.

That sounds cool and it's about time flamers get used but it also sounds like outside of 1vs1 flamers arent really something you would want unless you have a strong team with you with a plan.

[pwnface]

ZenFool, on 18 February 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

No vids? You'd think there would be tons of vids since its so easy. As to the overheat thing, I expect people will learn to adapt given more than TWO freaking days.

Having videos of both the flamer and flamee mech in a controlled environment is more than enough video evidence of a broken mechanic.

riverslq, on 18 February 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

What was the over-under on flamer stun-locks being the next meta?
I had pop-tarts right, but all those years ago I never would've guessed flamers!

A lot of people didn't expect no-heat flamers to be a thing. We'll see how good they are after they hotfix them.

[Mcgral18]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

A lot of people didn't expect no-heat flamers to be a thing. We'll see how good they are after they hotfix them.

Well, it's no no heat, it's 1 H/s per flamer, for that faction of a second, which is below the dissipation rate of most mechs (2.3H/s on 10 TrueDubs)

[pwnface]

DAYLEET, on 18 February 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

That sounds cool and it's about time flamers get used but it also sounds like outside of 1vs1 flamers arent really something you would want unless you have a strong team with you with a plan.

As they currently stand, there is no reason to not add 2x flamers to every energy boating light mech with more than 7 energy hardpoints. Being able to restrict an enemy's heat for essentially free (costs 2 energy hardpoints / 2 tons but zero heat) is way more valuable than a little bit of extra damage.

Think about the damage output difference with 5xCSPL and 2xFlamers vs 6 or 7 or 5 with an extra two heatsinks.

Sure you can kill stuff a LITTLE bit faster with more heat sinks or more CSPL, however the entire time your target is going to be shooting back at either you or a teammate. It's worthwhile to sacrifice a little bit of killing power to ensure your enemy is fighting at 10% or less efficiency while you kill them. It's both safer for you and your team.

Mcgral18, on 18 February 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

Well, it's no no heat, it's 1 H/s per flamer, for that faction of a second, which is below the dissipation rate of most mechs (2.3H/s on 10 TrueDubs)

That's true but people say Gauss is no-heat also when they do generate 1 heat. It's low enough that it's not very relevant.

[MechPorn]

All I see is that someone can't use their boated lasers and wants to complain. Well...you know...missiles have this same issue (not being able to be effective at short range).

Stop you complaining and move away from them and stop soloing in the group game.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 February 2016 - 01:23 AM, said:

What happens to mechs like the Banshee-3M that CANNOT counter flamers because they have no ballistic ports? They just get to be screwed?

You're right.

PGI should put in some sort of tiny laser that doesn't make very much heat, and has a range similar to the flamer. So that laser boats could have back up weapons when they're being heated....

Man that would be great wouldn't it.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 18 February 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

oldradagast, on 17 February 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Yep. This is typical. Expect absolutely nothing to be done to fix this since they don't even understand the problem. Enjoy the new flamer meta and stun-locks!

You forgot to add 'in PUG matches'.

Because if you are stupid enough to try and stun lock a mech in team game you are dead in seconds flat.

[pwnface]

MechPorn, on 18 February 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

All I see is that someone can't use their boated lasers and wants to complain. Well...you know...missiles have this same issue (not being able to be effective at short range).

Stop you complaining and move away from them and stop soloing in the group game.

Well you are seeing wrong then. A lot of the people discussing this issue play in competitive leagues where teamwork is paramount and necessary to win. Telling us to stop soloing in the group game is ludicrous.

Dirkdaring, on 18 February 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

You forgot to add 'in PUG matches'.

Because if you are stupid enough to try and stun lock a mech in team game you are dead in seconds flat.

Yeah because lights can never engage in close range combat right?

That's why players do it all the time in comp matches, it's because they are always dead in seconds flat.

There is a huge difference between charging into an enemy firing line a light mech by yourself and finding the right opportunity to close distance when the enemy team is distracted.

The Atlas Overlord, on 18 February 2016 - 02:42 PM, said:

You're right.

PGI should put in some sort of tiny laser that doesn't make very much heat, and has a range similar to the flamer. So that laser boats could have back up weapons when they're being heated....

Man that would be great wouldn't it.

LRM Atlas pilot troll. Please ignore.

Edited by pwnface, 18 February 2016 - 02:48 PM.

[Dirkdaring]

pwnface, on 18 February 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

Yeah because lights can never engage in close range combat right?

That's why players do it all the time in comp matches, it's because they are always dead in seconds flat.

There is a huge difference between charging into an enemy firing line a light mech by yourself and finding the right opportunity to close distance when the enemy team is distracted.

You clearly don't understand the issue here. Guess what you have to do in order to 'stunlock'? You have to keep the flamer on the mech to keep him shutdown.

Go ahead and try that vs MS, or Lord, or PL, or even any tier 2 team. Go ahead and circle a heavy or assault trying to keep him shutdown. You will be dead in seconds flat, like I said.