149 replies to this topic

[Raso]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 February 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

I'm not really seeing how they are as bad as some of you are saying they are...

To some anything less than the best is the worst. That is the path a meta try-hard must walk....

[PR1VATEER]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 February 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

I'm not really seeing how they are as bad as some of you are saying they are...

Have you played them yet? Obviously a different play style from a brawler like the Jag, but cripes, I die in under 30 seconds!

[Malleus011]

Mine seem to die extremely easy. I didn't expect them to be world-beaters, but they feel very fragile in the handful of games I've dropped into. I know I've got enough firepower to lay down some damage, but the 'mech never seems to live long enough to deliver.

A lot of that is me; I'm accustomed to either driving a triple UAC/5 (easy mode) Jager, or much faster and more nimble 55 tonners like Griffins. Adjusting to a fragile but slow heavy will take a little time.

Playing it like a bigger Blackjack will likely be the order of the day - it can lay down some firepower, but don't let anyone look at you.

[mogs01gt]

I plan on buying it. I want a BJ but do not want to cbills on an engine just for the BJ. So the riflement works better for me!

[DaZur]

Top-tier intelligencia prognosticators...

Yup, DOA for anyone who is a slave to the competitive meta. For anyone with a brain and an understanding of how to or more importantly how not to pilot the mech to maximize its roll, will find it an enjoyable addition to their garage.

I swear if I had a nickel for every DOA prognostication I'd have a stable full of "bad mechs".

[Piney II]

Malleus011, on 18 February 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Playing it like a bigger Blackjack will likely be the order of the day - it can lay down some firepower, but don't let anyone look at you.

Pretty much how I play mine so far - stay at range working the edges of the fight and keep moving while you lay in the firepower.

Stop to stare or brawl and you're done.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DaZur, on 18 February 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

Top-tier intelligencia prognosticators...

Yup, DOA for anyone who is a slave to the competitive meta.

I'm pretty those few of us actually posting in this thread that actually play comp matches, aren't actually decrying this as DOA.....so could we please stop acting like this is the case?

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 18 February 2016 - 08:13 AM.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 February 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

I was able to do that with a bigger engine, and its okay. The high hardpoints are nice but I am considering just changing it to 3 LPLs.

Yeah, first rattle out of the box was 3 LPL 5 ML...HOT...but a real thumper.

[Exard3k]

The Zohan, on 18 February 2016 - 03:37 AM, said:

Hmm, I think its pretty XL friendly. I usually get my CT cored in it, only a couple times so far I died by losing a sidetorso. Just put a XL290 in it and enjoy

fun fact.....you twist your torso to get dmg on CT instead of side torsos although the arms are good shields as well.

I prefer XL280 because that one ton difference gets me more ammo while still having 80km/h.

Edited by Exard3k, 18 February 2016 - 08:52 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Raso, on 18 February 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

To some anything less than the best is the worst. That is the path a meta try-hard must walk....

Pretty much anything that can mount a Gauss rifle with an array of medium and/or large class lasers is going to do just fine solo/group queue. Yes, I mean it will thrive even at high level play. Its not ultra-comp ideal, but it can lay the smack down and has the hardpoint placement to avoid taking an onslaught from the enemy that exposes its 60-ton vulnerability.

PR1VATEER, on 18 February 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Have you played them yet? Obviously a different play style from a brawler like the Jag, but cripes, I die in under 30 seconds!

Yes I have played them, but no I don't try to brawl. In my opinion, mechs like the Jager and Rifleman are not really ideally suited for brawling. You can bring the right weapons to brawl, but mid to long range poking will suit them better.

Gyrok, on 18 February 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

Yeah, first rattle out of the box was 3 LPL 5 ML...HOT...but a real thumper.

Yeah, no way.

Even the 2 LPL/6 ML build is hot with 19 DHS, although I haven't mastered it yet, it will probably get a little better.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 February 2016 - 09:23 AM.

[Wild Pegasus]

PR1VATEER, on 18 February 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Have you played them yet? Obviously a different play style from a brawler like the Jag, but cripes, I die in under 30 seconds!

To be honest, I think this is more about the 'mech being new and everyone targeting them specificlaly wanting to see how tough they are. And to a lesser extent, the misguided cheapskates who single out the "pay-to-wins" because they can't have the new toy someone else paid real money for.

The Warhammer went through the same thing, but after the shiny newness wore off and we didn't have entire lances swarming at us immediately it was a lot easier to properly gauge its potential. Give it a week for the buzz to die down and see what happens then.

[El Bandito]

PR1VATEER, on 18 February 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

Have you played them yet? Obviously a different play style from a brawler like the Jag, but cripes, I die in under 30 seconds!

Wow, 30 seconds! Seems the underhive is a very different place.

[Jetfire]

Been too busy playing them.

These things rock. I am doing like 2-5 kills and 10-12 mechs touched with 700+ damage regularly without even finishing basics yet. LBX10x2 mplasx4 LK so far is awesome as is the AC2x4 build and AC5x2 mlasx6 builds. Fast enough, excellent hardpoint locations. It is NOT a brawler but have yet to struggle to hit 400 dmg, practically hit that with a stock build the first drop even.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 18 February 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

Wow, 30 seconds! Seems the underhive is a very different place.

I thought about pointing out that to me it seems that Jagers that are trying to brawl are put down in less than 10 seconds let alone 30 seconds, but... meh.

[Felicitatem Parco]

You guys are funny.

This is a 60 ton Mech. It is the exact Average Weght for a Mech in this game ((100+20)/2). Only a fool uses the terms "Lightest Heavy" to describe it because "light," "medium," "heavy," and "Assault" are just arbitrary terms do describe numbers of tons.

Just use the number of tons to compare mechs', don't shun something for "being too small/weak for a heavy Mech." That kind of statement is silly. Tons are tons. Use that term, not the stupid classifications.

We all know that PGI abandoned the idea of all Mech classes and weghts being on par with each other (hence CW dropdeck weigh Windows). So, here is how you should initially judge the Rifleman:

Is it better than a 50 ton Mech? Would you rather take a Rifleman into direct 1v1 combat, or a 50 tonner? Would you rather take a 70 ton Mech in a 1v1, or a Rifleman? If you think the Rifleman stands between the effectiveness of 50 ton Mechs and 70 ton Mechs, then it's probably balanced enough.

Is it DOA? Well, how does it stack against other 60 ton mechs? How would 11 Rifleman fair against 10 JagerMechs?

If the Rifleman is DOA, then I am sure very few people will be using it after this event, right? Wrong. It's fine as it it, for what it is. It is a more maneuverable version of the JagerMech with a little less emphasis on ballistics. Anyone who says it's DOA obviously has not played any DOA mechs.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 February 2016 - 10:27 AM.

[0bsidion]

The primary motive for getting any of these unseen classic mechs is going to likely be nostalgia. Admittedly with the shoulder high gun arms you could have had the expectation of it performing somewhere along the lines of a Jaeg.

Personally I'd rate Jaegs somewhere in the ballpark of decent. Better at dishing it out than taking it, like a lot of sub 75 tonners.

Enter the Rifleman, basically the Jaegs kid brother. If you were expecting anything better than a Jaeg with less armor, tonnage, and structure, well, you were bound to be disappointed.

[Raso]

Yeah Jagermechs aren't really made for brawling. Dual AC2s are for ambushes and pressure but not for a brawl. I've not had the time luxury of playing with these enough (and the Boomjager has never been my cup of tea so I'm biased) but from my experience dusl AC20s are about positioning, speed and scavenging on the weak or foolish. Only speed is dependant on the mech itself, the rest os still and luck. I believe that a Rifleman can get to a fairly comfortable speed to pull off the dual AC20s but I'm not sure about how much ammo you could pack in there at the same time.
Personally, I believe that in the absence of good defensive quirks the Rifleman should stick to midrange direct fire support. Dual AC10s and maybe AC5s seem to be ideal. UACs would also work if for the double tap rather than consistent DPS. I feel that the mech is too light for quad AC2s and that currently only two AC2s are a waste.

The all energy build is another story. I can't recall it's quirks but I've been having great luck with PPCs on my Firebrand. If it can properly peek it could make use of them. I would also rather use LLas or ERLLas over LPLs because the mech just isn't made for close range fights.

I think that a quirk pass to better optimize the mech for range or extremely high AC Rate of Fire would be fantastic. Without that, however, the mech definitely isn't this train wreck people are making out to be.

[Nightshade24]

Xetelian, on 17 February 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

We already have the Jagermech at 65 tons of Dakka
Superior Dual AC20
Superior Dual Gauss
Superior 3xUAC5s
Though it can do some of these things

The only thing that the RFL has over the JM6 is energy points on the 5D with 8 points and 2 of them in the CT which is superior to the Firebrand by 2 E points but the Firebrand can go up to 91kph with tweak and a 340XL

DOA? Nah... I wouldn't call it DOA, you want DOA look at the IFR, SMN, GAR, MLX which hold the title of DOA much better

And we got the Rifleman at 60 tons
Superior Duel AC10
Superior Lasers
Superior 2xUAC 5

Also on arival the Ice ferret was quite decent, it was as effective as a light mech ER PPC build but you got more armour and weapons. ER PPC lights are already quite decent throughout MW: O history. Let's not forget that the Iceferret is one of the best CW mechs for generator suching (3 x SRM 4, 1 x medium pulse, being meta build)
Summoner came out when clan mechs first came out, This means the summoner on 'arival' was already virtually superior than even the best IS mechs at the time, Let's not forget it's still strong LRM builds ranging from LRM mix SRM's to it's 5 LRM 10's build.
Mist Lynx isn't DOA, it just performs like any other light mech of it's tonnage... it's as lively as any other spider or comando
Gargoyle on other hand... yea, If I can say what mech deserves an ammo quirk ,it'll be this thing... This thing needs lots of help

Samial, on 17 February 2016 - 10:32 PM, said:

Yes $35 wasted on 4 mechs sadly, pretty horrible, but in all fairness its not just the mech its how the game plays that ruined it imo.

You get still more C-bills, cockpit items, mechbays, and equipment from the whole thing for 35 dollars, still a steal deal if you ask me. You didn't waste 35 dollars unless you think C-bills, modules, cockpit items, and mechbays are completely useless..

Yeonne Greene, on 17 February 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

Nobody is going to run it like that, that's too slow. XL280 with 18 DHS is a better bet.

Actually, mid-range laser builds are shite in this 'Mech simply because there are no duration quirks whatsoever and heat-gen is minimal, causing it to lose trades against C-ERML or pulse in a major way. Total DPS is too low. It's also too slow in the engine department when you have QKDs running around with XL300+. Finally...only the LK has structure quirks worth noting.

74 kph is to slow? I thought 45 kph and under is to slow, 74 kph is enough to keep up with your team on NASCAR, out run most Assault mechs, same speed as the standard engine medium mechs, etc....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nightshade24, on 18 February 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

ER PPC lights are already quite decent throughout MW: O history.

Ummmm, wat?

[Felicitatem Parco]

I am really really liking the 40% velocity quirks and 20% cooldown on the Dual AC/10 loadout (of course, i had to move the ac/10s over to a different variant :-). Add in the modules and the fact that AC/10 gets a +33% ammo boost, and you have a nice Marksman Mech with decent speed. I have been using it as mobile fire support for assaults to supplement their firepower and snipe opened components. Them some fast projectiles.

I have not tried dual AC/2 yet... But the weight of a Rifleman should give me the tons I need for more DHS and the 40% velocity should turn those bullets into practically hitscan projectiles.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 18 February 2016 - 11:17 AM.