187 replies to this topic

[Glaucon]

This thread fired me up so much I made an lrm boat from my Shadowcat!

[Bishop Steiner]

Whatzituyah, on 19 February 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

I actually can stop you just not the way you think. I just can't right now because my computer is a potato.

So's mine. Come at me bro, and I'll chain LRM you into crisscut fries!

[Ovion]

Tyman4, on 18 February 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

Ecm stops it
radar deprivation stops it
breaking lock stops it
your spotter has to hold a lock for 2 minutes to kill something

AND, 1 AMS with overload stops it...

This build is worthless. Either go up to a volley of 40, 60, or 90, or bring something else.

Personally, I prefer the 60 or 90 because it lets you alpha someone for a significant amount of damage. But if you are going to take lrm5 just go down to streaks or srms.

Rant done
Tyman4

Dear Tyman4
I will not.
I will however, deconstruct your post point by point though:

ECM can suck it. I can see my target generally 9/10, and have BAP+TAG.
Radar dep only works if I can't see you, same to breaking locks.
This argument is piss poor, as it applies to all weapons. 'Oh no, I can't see the enemy, well, my weapons are useless then, best not use them!'

If you have a spotter, and you're playing it right, it'll take roughly 34-35 shots to kill a fresh atlas, which is less than 20 seconds, hell round it up to 1T, 36 shots that's exactly 20 seconds of output. (Timed it in testing grounds, from sighting, lock, hold, to kill, 28 seconds), Chainfire ensures most of it hits center as a rule.
So to kill the biggest mech in the game, your spooter (assuming that's not you) has to hold for 30 seconds tops - or drop a NARC, that'll do it honestly.
In 2 minutes I'll put out over 1080 damage in missiles of continuous fire - and I tell you what, I have 14 tons of ammo, 2520 missiles, so I can keep that barage going for 4 minutes 40 seconds. I might put an extra ton on there just so I can fire for a full 5 minutes

I can do that without overheating for 2 and a half minutes of continuous fire.I can fire fully half my missiles before I have to stop for 15-20 seconds, and I have enough heat to do it all over again.
And the best part here is, that's without the LRM5 Cooldown Module.
I can boost this sustained 9DPs monster higher.
I think I will, it'll bump it to roughly 10DPS and I'll cool my tubes with your tears.

And in close, even reduced, I can use them as a poor mans SSRM.

1AMS with Overload will stop... some of it, bumping it to stop maybe 3-4 of a volley, and if there's too much AMS coming from your target (because remember, 9/10 I can see your *** anyway), I'll switch targets, and with how rare AMS is anyway, not a concern.

The build is amazing, a Volley of 40 drops the DPS to around 8.88, but more heavily spread so realistically, to the CT - about half to 2/3 that to a single section (even 30 in a volley hits 3 components), 60 will bump it to 10.92, but again, more spread so likely only 1/2 to 2/3 that again. 90 is 24.57, so 8.19 to 12.29 per section, but not very sustainable.
So none of these larger launchers come even close to the focused, or sustained DPS of a 6LRM5 MDD.

The larger tubecount, and SRM/SSRM builds just don't compete
6x5 LRM MDD has versatility, it can work well both as a direct and indirect assault boar, it has staying power, it has huge damage output, it can live, even thrive in a brawl if it needs to.

Yours faithfully, Ovion, Light Specialist, LBX aficionado, Mad Dog pilot.

Edited by Ovion, 19 February 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[Ovion]

Addendum:

Tyman4, on 18 February 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

Wow, didn't really expect any responses to this.

And even Bishop and Alistair defending this pile of crap.

I'll tell you what. We can stand 1200 m apart and I'll walk my nova into the maddogs face and eat it for breakfast. Name the time and place. Record it, so you can add it to the thread later.

Then, strip the armor down and load it with the lrm 90...I bet the nova doesn't get past 500m...

You miss the point "1 AMS WITH OVERLOAD can stop your stream of missles"...my nova with 3 and 30% increased fire rate AND Overload...will never get hit.

I post this because people bring this mech. It is a trash load out...second only to lrm atlases.
Stop bringing it.

And for all the QQ's in the thread...no...I have never been killed by one of these awful things...give me some credit jeez...I just feel bad for the noobies who show up with it...

Tyman4

I hadn't seen this before my previous post.

Just... really?

"I'll bring a mech explicitly designed to counter and kill a specific thing, that's entirely unrealistic to normal play, and I'll beat that thing!"
Cool.
Perfect logic there.

Little math - it should take, 30-40 seconds for the MDD to kill the nova in this instance.
What are you running besides the AMS to try and destroy the MDD?
Can I move? because it's going to take you that 30-40 seconds to cross 1200M.
If I walk backwards, this'll be a different ball game again.

And really, if you piloted an actual drop mech, that you'd take solo, how would it play out?

Edited by Ovion, 19 February 2016 - 06:32 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Tyman4, on 18 February 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

I'll tell you what. We can stand 1200 m apart and I'll walk my nova into the maddogs face and eat it for breakfast. Name the time and place. Record it, so you can add it to the thread later.

Just to be clear here, you're saying you'll stand in the open at 1200 meters and walk in the open directly toward a 6x5 lrm mad dog?

Edit: B/c if so I'm going to buy and elite out mad dogs just to accept this challenge.

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 19 February 2016 - 06:23 PM.

[1453 R]

The Atlas Overlord, on 19 February 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

Just to be clear here, you're saying you'll stand in the open at 1200 meters and walk in the open directly toward a 6x5 lrm mad dog?

Edit: B/c if so I'm going to buy and elite out mad dogs just to accept this challenge.

Well, remember - he's bringing triple AMS w/AMS modules against what he believes is a pure LRM machine.

Now, a realistic LRM-5 Doge, with an array of backup lasers, may well be able to duel a Nova and win. Even with triple AMS, chainfire in close will land a little bit of damage and shake/irritate the hell out of the Nova pilot, without generally impacting laser fire from the Doge too much.

'Course, that particular scenario doesn't really matter because the LRM-5 Doge is still one of the game's premier Lurmishers and most everyone knows it. Really too bad - I tried going dual LRM-15 on a Shadow Cat for a super-agile hit-and-scoot medium Lurmisher, but I just don't have enough room for ammo. Four tons doesn't cut it in the long run, and when I'm down to just two cERML, that doesn't cut it either.

One of these days I'll figure out a really awesome Shadowcat build...one of these days...

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

1453 R, on 19 February 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

Well, remember - he's bringing triple AMS w/AMS modules against what he believes is a pure LRM machine.

Oh I don't have any problem with losing, if he actually can.... I just want to see him put his money where his mouth is.

[Whatzituyah]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 February 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

So's mine. Come at me bro, and I'll chain LRM you into crisscut fries!

I should have said "I think" because who knows if my methods would work on you. That said I am too lazy too boot my computer back up besides I think a air dusting is in order for it.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 19 February 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[1453 R]

The Atlas Overlord, on 19 February 2016 - 06:34 PM, said:

Oh I don't have any problem with losing, if he actually can.... I just want to see him put his money where his mouth is.

I have Doges ground up already, though without modules at the moment. Frankly, I'm willing to spot the man modules and take him on nekkid, provided he's willing to wait a day or two until I'm not in the middle of either work or preparations for moving. probably with a Doge set up like this, which is what I'd consider to be the "normal" LRM-5 Dogespam machine, or close to it - nine tons of ammo is a goddang lot, but it's also got lasers and enough heat sinks to take some stabs at weakened components or to actually defend itself in close without really compromising its Lurmisher-ness. No Artemis, yeah, I know. C'mon - Artemis for this machine is not worth six tons.

But yeah. I've never actually tried an LRM-5 Doge, but when I get a chance I think I'm going to. Always enjoyed the idea of mobile LRM fire support (#IMissMyTrebs), and this seems like a pretty solid contender.

Also something I'd be willing to duel someone with if they started at 1200m and charged me in the open, triple AMS or not.

[Livewyr]

It should be noted that you require missiles to have back-up weapons in order to guarantee effectiveness.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Just used mad dog for the very first time... put 6xLRM 5 on it...... did 700 damage and got 2 kills.

Thanks for telling me about his build OP



Edit: Second game, only got 200 damage but 7 of my team died in the first minute.... so *shrug*

Edited by The Atlas Overlord, 19 February 2016 - 07:27 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Whatzituyah, on 19 February 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

I should have said "I think" because who knows if my methods would work on you. That said I am too lazy too boot my computer back up besides I think a air dusting is in order for it.

That's alright. I don't have any computer ATM. Head to return to the USA because my mom is hospitalized. My potato is collecting dust back home. Only on the forums even when she dozes off.

Heck, would love to just be able to play in the mechlab with me ROFLman, even.

[Dahkoht]

Buying MadDog pack just to do this , sounds fun. To go along with my 5 LRM Jenner IIC I made a 5 LRM 5 Summoner and have been having a blast with it.

[Malachy Karrde]

I have a Mad Dog, only 1800 missiles on it, but I went for 4x Mpls and a couple heat sinks. I'll take his challenge any time...I have only played one match in the mad dog in the last 3 months and I'll still be glad to take on his little kitty.

[Karamarka]

6x lrm 5 is actually fun

and it annoying for the enemy

and you can have weps

win win

[Ovion]

I've been running it for the last couple of days now, since this thread went up.
Been having a blast, just walking through targets.

[Kristian Radoulov]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 February 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

Cool story. Want to stop me? Come kill me. I'll be waiting to pick the meat off the bones of your carcass.

Those of us who know how to use those MDD are less than 400 meters away, have TAG and 4 erml.

You can run, but you can't hide, son.

lol

[Tyman4]

Ovion, on 19 February 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

Addendum: I hadn't seen this before my previous post. Just... really? "I'll bring a mech explicitly designed to counter and kill a specific thing, that's entirely unrealistic to normal play, and I'll beat that thing!" Cool. Perfect logic there. Little math - it should take, 30-40 seconds for the MDD to kill the nova in this instance. What are you running besides the AMS to try and destroy the MDD? Can I move? because it's going to take you that 30-40 seconds to cross 1200M. If I walk backwards, this'll be a different ball game again. And really, if you piloted an actual drop mech, that you'd take solo, how would it play out?

That's not a mech "specifically designed to counter" that maddog per say...its just to stop/reduce lrm play which has picked up some with the advent of 4 missile hardpoint IS...mauler? i think it is?. I drop it regularly...sure it's not meta...but neither is the 6lrm5 dog.

Really I just designed it to guard my fatties. 3 ams for lrm cover and 12 smalls for close range back up and to scare pesky lights off them. So no it's not "specific" except in it's roll.

I just want to see if the nova will make it, I'm pretty sure it could because in the 30-40 seconds it will cover the ~1000 meters. But that really doesn't serve the point. My point is that the AMS could protect like 4-6 mechs in that bubble. So you would effectively be giving yourself heat for no benefit. Unless depleting my AMS ammo is a benefit, I guess in the long run? And I have tested this in game. I stood perfectly still in sight of the 6 lrm5 dog and his stream of missles never touched me. 0 damage dealt. You will HAVE to alpha to get through it.

More to the point, a lrm 90 dog can put 180 missles on a target at 740m in 15 seconds...the lrm5 dog puts the same total on target in ~26. (travel time included). In closer, the LRM 90 dog will put it on in the cooldown time of the lrm15s. That is the difference in playstyle between the two. NO ONE is going to stand there and let you hold lock on the them for 40 seconds...30 seconds...even 10 seconds. Additionally your spotter doesn't have to face tank for 30 seconds in the high capacity build. Seriously, nobody can face tank an atlas for 20 seconds. Especially because your spotter can't role the damage to his arms if he has to remain facing the target (Radar Derp). IMO, LRM alpha > LRM DPS...because you won't get locks for long.

People don't seem to understand the application of Radar Derp. If I take an AC5 and I have a 2 second window to shoot, I can hit for 5 damage. Same window...lrm 5 0 damage done...because the lock is instantly broken even though the missiles are flying. This is something that CANNOT happen to ballistics and lasers. This is FUNDAMENTALLY different from "I can't see therefore I can't shoot". This is more like "I took a shot, and IN MID AIR, my damage was prevented"

ECM...I'm tired of even discussing this, go look up all the old threads on y the Jesus box is OP and stupid. Because it is...it directly prevents a class of weapon from EVER being meta.

Tag + Bap...tag only works out to what 750 meter? so you've lost 250 m of your range...So, I stand with ecm at 751 and ppc you to death...but really if you have LOS just use direct fire.

O...and you are VERY wrong about the A-SRM 6 dog...it is a face smashing brawler. That actually will mess up any mech in CQB. Just have to control the range. HPG is especially good to that mech. And if you can get someone's back, your alpha will kill nearly any mech in the game.

[Ovion]

You seemed to skim over a lot of points made.
So here's a short version:

Generally can see opponent, get own locks.
Engage from 700M or less (missiles have an 'optimal range' too).
LRM5's Missiles focus CT better than larger launcher.

Edited by Ovion, 20 February 2016 - 11:43 PM.

[Cabusha]

I've found Clan lrms to be quite nice for their tonnage, on the softer "non-meta" Clan mechs especially. For instance, one of my Warhawk I run 2xLPL + UAC20 + 3xCLRM5. The 5s are great for harassment and suppression, as well as getting some extra damage in while I'm still waddling in. Hell, I even mix them in at shorter ranges if I'm a tad too hot. Either way, don't really feel they detract from the build.

IS lrms are too heavy for mixed arms usage, IME.