24 replies to this topic

[HellJumper]

so we have modules for other things as well...

why not for a predator vision?

[Gyrok]

HellJumper, on 19 February 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

so we have modules for other things as well...

why not for a predator vision?

That is what thermal vision used to be...now thermal is basically UV instead of IR.

[Xetelian]

We already have 'heat' vision, you press H
We already have 'night' vision you press N
We already have 'advanced zoom you equip the mod and press V

Predator vision in AvP was heat vision and alien vision which makes aliens glow, since our current heat vision makes things glow we kinda have it already

[1Grimbane]

Gyrok, on 19 February 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

That is what thermal vision used to be...now thermal is basically UV instead of IR.

actually the black and white thermal IS a better quality ir, not just in this game but in the way of real ir scopes
with the technocolor ir it's hard to tell what equipment the target is carrying, what weapon system he has, in black and white ir it's very easy to tell

Edited by 1Grimbane, 19 February 2016 - 09:26 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

HellJumper, on 19 February 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

so we have modules for other things as well...

why not for a predator vision?

Because that would probably become a goto module, seriously, predator vision was powerful.

[HellJumper]

Gyrok, on 19 February 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

That is what thermal vision used to be...now thermal is basically UV instead of IR.

yup...and thats why it is something that could be brought back...

Xetelian, on 19 February 2016 - 09:22 AM, said:

We already have 'heat' vision, you press H
We already have 'night' vision you press N
We already have 'advanced zoom you equip the mod and press V

Predator vision in AvP was heat vision and alien vision which makes aliens glow, since our current heat vision makes things glow we kinda have it already

well the predator vision was in game before it got replaced with the current heat vision mode..

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 February 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Because that would probably become a goto module, seriously, predator vision was powerful.

powerful? how come

[Quicksilver Aberration]

HellJumper, on 19 February 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

powerful? how come

It used to be how we played this game, constant predator vision, because it allowed you to see mechs better than any other vision mode (because of the insane fog on many maps).

[1Grimbane]

the black and white adds more detail to your view, the color just makes it crappy. so a goto module.. only if you like less visibililty. now distance of view is a different story in black and white

Edited by 1Grimbane, 19 February 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[BlueVisionWarrior Online]

YES! I will support this a THOUSAND TIMES YES! Give it the 750m limit that black and white has and don't highlight cockpits, BAM balanced

[Quicksilver Aberration]

1Grimbane, on 19 February 2016 - 09:32 AM, said:

the black and white adds more detail to your view, the color just makes it crappy. so a goto module.. only if you like less visiblilty

You must never have played during those days then, because being able to discern a mech popping up from cover was important during those days (and still is). The only difference is maybe on hot maps where the current thermal really comes in handy because you just have to look for the black spots in the distance.

BlueVisionWarrior Online, on 19 February 2016 - 09:33 AM, said:

YES! I will support this a THOUSAND TIMES YES! Give it the 750m limit that black and white has and don't highlight cockpits, BAM balanced

Thermal isn't limited to 750m, not sure whether that was changed or there is an issue with it, but you can see past 750m easily on quite a few maps.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 February 2016 - 09:35 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

HellJumper, on 19 February 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

powerful? how come

As Kalasa stated it used to be used more than normal vision. YOu could see for 1500+ meters and snipe the hell outta mechs.

Honestly I miss this vision, it was far better than the current Thermal vision. I would love to see if come back in some form or fashion, but you would have to curtail it a bit.

[Nyuuu]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 February 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Because that would probably become a goto module, seriously, predator vision was powerful.

I certainly wouldn't mind having a further module actually worth considering.
Currently it is, with way too few exceptions, slap on Radar Dep. slap on Seismic Sensor, should you have an ECM mech or a third Mech module slot slap on Target Info Gathering.

If it became a module I certainly wouldn't be willing to sacrifice either one of the first two, so I dont really see a problem here.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nyuuu, on 19 February 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

If it became a module I certainly wouldn't be willing to sacrifice either one of the first two, so I dont really see a problem here.

Because you aren't really increasing module depth, just changing which ones are the goto module, because trust me, this would be up there with seismic. Radar derp would probably be the one sacrificed on most builds, either that or TIG.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 February 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[Nyuuu]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 19 February 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Because you aren't really increasing module depth, just changing which ones are the goto module, because trust me, this would be up there with seismic. Radar derp would probably be the one sacrificed on most builds, either that or TIG.

I must admit I never experienced the original Heat Vision other than in videos, though I could never see myself sacrificing all the advantages from Radar Dep. for better vision, no matter how good it may be.

Radar Dep not only helps against LRMs, it gives you a massive leap in the information warfare.
It makes sure the enemy wont know which direction you are going after ducking behind cover.
It gives the enemy much less if not even no time to read your paperdoll thanks to the lessend exposure.
It avoids a lot of attention since humans will much rather move their crosshair towards a red dorito appearing for 2.5s instead of 1s.

On the other hand gamma 100 (sad that we need it but so be it) takes care of pretty much any vision issues you might have in the game, if I miss a mech in my fov it is on very dark maps (River City Night) on distances >800m, situations where it doesnt really matter much, if any.

It might be a tad OP on ECM mechs, since they would have a second really good module instead of some mediocre ones to consider...

Edited by Nyuuu, 19 February 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Mad Porthos]

Both "Predator Heat Vision" and the black and white FLIR heat vision both used to have no blur and great "sharpness" at even maximum ranges. This meant that while haze and fog kept you from even seeing or differentiating an enemy mech peeking from behind a building at 1000m, in normal vision, even zoomed... you'd go to the thermal vision and see a clear red dot of a hot mech, against a cool blue background. Zoom on that and you could see enough detail even to cockpit shot.

Once they switched to the Black and White mode, for a little while the cockpit sniping was down, but it still was crystal clear and so people often prefered to play in black and white mode. So they then introduced a sort of greying out of farther and farther things beyond a certain range, I guess 750m or so so that you could not differentiate.

Same with night vision, it used to be much brighter but dims out at range, to try to give people a reason to run in normal vision mode and take the time to zoom and look around, using advanced zoom NOT in those modes.

If we had "Predator" thermographic vision back, we would probably get back another old complaint, that it was not accurate. That was to say, yes it made a mech show up as bright red hot colors, but they were often making it hard to see where a torso protruded or an arm started and sometimes some things on the map would be nearly as hot/warm and people thought that the mechs should always be the hottest thing and should clearly have areas on them that were cooler to make it easier to pick out varying components. That complaint actually was I think called something like "want detailed heat maps" or something so that the thermographic also could show things like hot glowing footprints of mechs that passed, or signatures of a mech that was hiding behind a building, from it's "heat plume". Because the gradiations being drawn had NOTHING TO DO WITH PHYSICS OF REAL HEAT though, there was no way they could do this level of detail. It was just a "filter" that makes colors show up in a particular way when viewed and certain items like mechs have those color "heat" textures. I heard rants about this for hours where some people thought it was childs play to implement and was absolutely needed for better immersion for the vision modes. I think that just kinda made the devs say, the hell with this... lets just make it black and white FLIR.

There also have been those who want things like "infrared spot lights" where they could illuminate targets in a certain cone at much further range and thus be able to see them better using the IR, perhaps even with a spotter doing IR spotlighting, so others could snipe better or see them better at range. There are even suggestions that the TAG laser really should only be visible in IR vision mode, because that's the type of laser all modern weaponry tends to use, infrared lasers for range finding and the guidance of ordinance. The visible red light of the current TAG invalidates its use cause a continual laser pointer gives away the position of a spotter who is supposed to be doing thier job of spotting, not shooting and fighting. Again, they've avoided this too - though I don't really know why if they want scouts to be built to do scouting, they should allow them to be able to scout and spot, without breaking their stealth. Yet because TAG does break any stealth, they must build also to fight effectively, making lights and spotters not really be doing their roles, cause they can't reasonably do them without actually having to do real fighting too.

[HellJumper]

well the thing is that we are keeping in the original predator vision here and discussing on that...

i am sure the way game has shaped over time it can be reduced or tweaked to a point that it cant be an OP vision mode...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nyuuu, on 19 February 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

Radar Dep not only helps against LRMs, it gives you a massive leap in the information warfare.
It makes sure the enemy wont know which direction you are going after ducking behind cover.
It gives the enemy much less if not even no time to read your paperdoll thanks to the lessend exposure.
It avoids a lot of attention since humans will much rather move their crosshair towards a red dorito appearing for 2.5s instead of 1s.

The higher up you begin to play, the less most of this matters.

Don't get me wrong, it is still useful, but not near as useful as predator vision was.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 19 February 2016 - 10:16 AM.

[Rhaythe]

I'm okay with predator vision coming back provided they give it the same range limitation current alternative vision modes have.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

You can still get the old heat vision (and worse!) as myself and Dustmuffins showed PGI along time back, they still haven't protected the assets.

Edited by DV McKenna, 19 February 2016 - 10:31 AM.

[Prc]

We had it, it was OP meny long renge kills very precision nerf pgipl0x