87 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

Those are tactics

Part of the reason we are in the mess we are in now as far as CW is concerned is

The crying about and nerfing of tactics

Your mission as a Mech warrior is to overcome any and all tactics your enemy might devise

[Richter Kerensky]

Davegt27, on 20 February 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

Those are tactics

Part of the reason we are in the mess we are in now as far as CW is concerned is

The crying about and nerfing of tactics

Your mission as a Mech warrior is to overcome any and all tactics your enemy might devise

I don't know who you're talking to but the CW system could use at least the revision I suggested if nothing else.

[Krassos]

So your enemy came destroyed omega and got a kill lead and then your side just sat your loss out?

Yes I agree that dropships are crazy right now and on some maps you need JJ to clean out the spawn points to make a match end, which should be changed.

But still, you should rather complain about your own sides unwillingness to even try to play for a win, instead of naming and shaming the op side for playing the objective.

Edited by Krassos, 20 February 2016 - 12:47 AM.

[Richter Kerensky]

Krassos, on 20 February 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

So your enemy came destroyed omega and got a kill lead and then your side just sat your loss out?

Yes I agree that dropships are crazy right now and on some maps you need JJ to clean out the spawn points to make a match end, which should be changed.

But still, you should rather complain about your own sides unwillingness to even try to play for a win.

What? I'm saying it's stupid that if you're defending on counter-attack, the enemy team comes in and takes your objective (omega) and leaves, you still win because the tiebreaker favors the defender for no reason. It's especially stupid on Hellebore Springs which has an incredibly well-protected spawn location.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 20 February 2016 - 12:49 AM.

[Kurbeks]

PGI should just hand out day ban for whole team for that kind of behaviour. With warning that next time it will be week ban and unit will get deleted.

[Der Hesse]

Wing 0, on 19 February 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

Another garbage thread by someone who called out units naming and shaming. You started a fight, you pay for the consequences.

You guys still don´t get the forum rules. You are allowed to call out units.
And by the way. I saw this "tactic" by HHOD and SWOL too. So this is not a single event. But it was worse then most times because both sides didn´t want to fight. Typically im in the team that jumps into the meatgrinder.

Interesting enough that i am now the one getting the hate. You guys are interesting folk.

[Krassos]

Richter Kerensky, on 20 February 2016 - 12:48 AM, said:

What? I'm saying it's stupid that if you're defending on counter-attack, the enemy team comes in and takes your objective (omega) and leaves, you still win because the tiebreaker favors the defender for no reason. It's especially stupid on Hellebore Springs which has an incredibly well-protected spawn location.

I totally agree with that, but still, the OP was on the defender side, which just sat the whole game out, after they were behind ...

Der Hesse, on 20 February 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

You guys still don´t get the forum rules. You are allowed to call out units.
And by the way. I saw this "tactic" by HHOD and SWOL too. So this is not a single event. But it was worse then most times because both sides didn´t want to fight. Typically im in the team that jumps into the meatgrinder.

Interesting enough that i am now the one getting the hate. You guys are interesting folk.

Yes, you are probably the wrong target, when it was the premade on your side who sat the loss out.

Edited by Krassos, 20 February 2016 - 01:09 AM.

[Richter Kerensky]

Krassos, on 20 February 2016 - 12:59 AM, said:

I totally agree with that, but still, the OP was on the defender side, which just sat the whole game out, after they were behind ...

I am not trying to name and shame here, I'm calling out the endemic problem with the game mode. I could easily name units who tried to do this and either won or failed based on it, but I won't, because it's not constructive to the point I'm trying to make, which is, if counter-attack is going to survive as a game mode, the attackers should win on a tie if they destroy Omega.

[Kin3ticX]

Tasker, on 19 February 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Go kill the enemy team.

The real problem with counter attack is the same problem that every game mode has: stupidly overpowered dropships with 12 ER large lasers that were designed to make awful teams feel just a little bit better about themselves by getting a few pity kills and dragging out the match for a few minutes.

Richter Kerensky, on 20 February 2016 - 12:14 AM, said:

The biggest problem with counter-attack is simple and I've already said it several times: attackers should win on a tie if omega has been destroyed, but currently they don't. This would prevent the defenders from just setting up in their own spawn and letting Dropship fire 12 er large lasers into enemy center torsos every time anyone respawns.

If attackers win on a tie when omega is down, that means that the defenders need to set up to actually protect omega instead of ignoring it as an objective completely, confident that the "spawncamping prevention system" will win fights for them.

Probably safe to assume PGI knows about these issues but they want to keep us in the dark on their reasoning

[sycocys]

Der Hesse, on 19 February 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

The premade i was pugged with decided to not run into the meatgrinder and sit it out.

So as a team you decided to do nothing instead of attempt to win?

As much as I think counter-attack is a terrible mode, most of the problem here is due to your team of players choosing to make the mode even worse.

[Kin3ticX]

Davegt27, on 20 February 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

Those are tactics

Part of the reason we are in the mess we are in now as far as CW is concerned is

The crying about and nerfing of tactics

Your mission as a Mech warrior is to overcome any and all tactics your enemy might devise

Nobody is saying tactics are bad, but tactics that tie into forcing the enemy to eat the dropships while having to kill your mechs are potentially game breaking

[sycocys]

Well they should have pushed on them when they saw someone was sniping omega from afar. Or after they lost a mech from afar. Or at any point during that 30 minutes.

All they needed to do was get a 1 kill lead coring out the backs of running away mechs.

The mode is bad, player decision in this case is the failure though.

[Richter Kerensky]

A 1-kill lead is very difficult for an attacking team to get on offense in the counter-attack game mode. On several of the maps i believe the defenders have a nearly insurmountable advantage. Taiga and Portico are the worst offenders.

Kin3ticX, on 20 February 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

Probably safe to assume PGI knows about these issues but they want to keep us in the dark on their reasoning

their current reasoning seems to be "buy new mech pack for only $55 american!!!!!!!!! woww!!!!"

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 20 February 2016 - 01:50 AM.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Sounds like HHOD using alt accounts.

[vocifer]

The problem here is players not willing to fight. Even on scirmish you may have one guy hiding in hills for the rest of the match. This just asks for some "surrender" button.

It doesn't matter what the win conditions are. If the omega is down and attackers are leading with 1:0 score at the 8'th minute, the defenders should either push or choose to surrender at the exact moment. What's the purpose of waiting for 20 minutes if you have the result already? Time is money (cbills/lp/xp if you like), 1:3 score is not a problem if match lasted for 10 minutes only.

Same thing happens on Invasion gamemode. If attackers don't want to open the gates, what would you do? I say "no gates donw @8'th minute => defenders win". Same thing we may probably need for counterattack.

[Kin3ticX]

if you want something done about this, need to think about other means than the CW forums. Don't have the traffic here to get noticed by anyone, so basically its just an act of mental masturbation amongst ourselves

getting noticed on the forums is more readily done w/ pages and pages of harsh butthurt directed at PGI by tons of people in general discussion

Edited by Kin3ticX, 20 February 2016 - 02:23 AM.

[Richter Kerensky]

Jack Booted Thug, on 20 February 2016 - 01:55 AM, said:

Sounds like HHOD using alt accounts.

nkva is The kuritan defense unit and you accuse me of being davion? disgusting.

[Richter Kerensky]

Boreal and Sulfurous (ie. the first two maps they made??? wow) are the fairest maps regarding attack vs. defense, but if I had to take a side, I'd say Boreal favors defense and Sulfurous favors offense. Canyon ("hellebore springs") is ridiculously favored toward defense on the counter-attack game mode and mildly favored for "regular" offense on the normal game mode. portico is extremely heavily favored for defense on both "defense" and "hold territory" to the point that any team that loses an "defense" or "hold territory" match is completely worthless. emerald taiga is extremely favored toward defense due to the paths that offense is funneled into on that map. vitric forge heavily favors defense due to the ease of the defenders jump-jetting on buildings that the defenders have to pass by to attack objectives.

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 20 February 2016 - 02:44 AM.

[Alienized]

Richter Kerensky, on 20 February 2016 - 02:40 AM, said:

Boreal and Sulfurous (ie. the first two maps they made??? wow) are the fairest maps regarding attack vs. defense, but if I had to take a side, I'd say Boreal favors defense and Sulfurous favors offense. Canyon ("hellebore springs") is ridiculously favored toward defense on the counter-attack game mode and mildly favored for "regular" offense on the normal game mode. portico is extremely heavily favored for defense on both "defense" and "hold territory" to the point that any team that loses an "defense" or "hold territory" match is completely worthless. emerald taiga is extremely favored toward defense due to the paths that offense is funneled into on that map. vitric forge heavily favors defense due to the ease of the defenders jump-jetting on buildings that the defenders have to pass by to attack objectives.

i have to disagree heavily on hellebore springs.

that map is not lopsided towards anything. every defender has a advantage since the paths from dropzone to omega is the shortest but on hellebore you can use so much terrain to screw up defenders if you do it right.

imho, hellebore, grim portico and vitric forge are the most balanced maps in CW atm.
you got alot of terrain to use and make profit out of it.

taiga is a massive problem since you can defend both gates from the same spot. total letdown.
besides that you can STILL kill a generator from outside... like what? that problem is massive on its own and favours the attacker so much on the standard attack mode.
if anything, no map objective should be achievable from outside the main base.
that counts for boreal as much for taiga.

another thing is that on most maps the IS defenders wont get into defending positions fast enough in the first round if they dont use either fast underarmed heavies or XL engines.
since they changed the dropzones especially on boreal the clanspeed is a major advantage. normally a base is set that the defenders can reach important defensive positions faster than ANY attacker can get into the base.
on attack it doesnt matter much for IS.

remember: the attacker can jump onto the roofs of vitric forge as well and the lights/meds on top are easily dispatched by gauss-shots or er large lasers.

[Appogee]

Der Hesse, on 19 February 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

The premade i was pugged with decided to not run into the meatgrinder and sit it out.

CW needs heaps of rethinking.

However, in this case, you chose not to fight. How can you complain about waiting when you chose not to fight?

I was in a match yesterday where a Clan team defended Boreal by sitting on the hill at the back and sniping with superior long range lasers. Then they complained how boring the match was for them!

Choices. Live with the consequences.