306 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

WANTED, on 21 February 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

Darn. I'm so going to miss those clan whining post.

They're not stopping, though.

Their next target is the Oxide. "Oh, Russ, it's just not fair. My Dire Whale got solo'd in the back by an Oxide. Pls nerf."

Meantime I'm running around in a Jenner IIC doing pretty much what the Oxide does, but with more range and tubes. And the fact that ACHs run around doing 30 point SPL alphas in the back of IS Assaults at longer range, under ECM, and with no ammo dependency, doesn't get mentioned.

Clans are also making a concerted whinepaign to get the Ice Ferret buffed, because "we paid money for a Light Mech that isn't as dominating as the Arctic Cheetah".

Wah!

Edited by Appogee, 21 February 2016 - 10:32 PM.

[Gyrok]

Yeonne Greene, on 21 February 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

Sure! As long as they weigh 7, 9, 13, and 15 tons, each, for 2-, 5-, 10-, and 20-class Ultras!

Enjoy!

I was not asking for ultras.

I was asking for single shell, single projectile, non-ultra ACs.

As in the worthless clan ACs we have now that no one uses.

[Davegt27]

9 pages wow!

[LORD ORION]

Gyrok, on 21 February 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

I was not asking for ultras.

I was asking for single shell, single projectile, non-ultra ACs.

As in the worthless clan ACs we have now that no one uses.

PGI should just hack the LBXs

--1000000% spread and no critical bonus if target range > 33% max range; so the enemy eats a micro dot slug
If range is < 33% max range, give them a face full of crit seeking pellets

or whatever ranges work

[Gyrok]

Ace Selin, on 21 February 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

I haven't read the pages of this but im genuinely interested in peoples take on how IS can beat the SRM brawler Madcat under 300 metres.
What IS heavy can equal its performance?

A seperate question ..
What IS heavy can bring Dual AC10s without an XL with enough ammo and backup weapons?

SRM Brawler as requested

AC10 mech as requested

Mechlab is hard, I know...but once you learn it...it is a wonderful thing.

Also, I run both of those...and they are quite brutal.

[Wolfways]

Appogee, on 21 February 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

survivable XL torsos

Okay.

Quote

interchangeable min/maxed omnipod hardpoints

Negated by IS having more options to choose from (i.e. more mechs).

Quote

light weapons, meaning more weapons

Negated by high heat generation.

Quote

Large caliber UACs and Streaks

One of which is rarely used because of the stream firing and the other which is only used to fight light mechs.

[Appogee]

Wolfways, on 21 February 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Negated by IS having more options to choose from (i.e. more mechs).

You can fit out a Storm Crow in any conceivable configuration. And it will still be far tankier than any IS Medium.

Wolfways, on 21 February 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Negated by high heat generation.

So stop boating high heat weapons. Build heat balanced builds. Or if you just can't play any other way than laser vomit. Alpha, hide, repeat.

Wolfways, on 21 February 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

...rarely used because of the stream firing

And here we see the mental prison most Clanners seem to have locked themselves into. It's not hard to land a stream of AC shots. I and many other players do it successfully every day. Clan UACs are fantastic.

Some Clan players think laser vomit is their only option. "Hold the laser point on the target" is the definition of easy mode.

Wolfways, on 21 February 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

and the other which is only used to fight light mechs.

A self-guided weapon system that completely vaporises an IS Light Mech in two passes. And delivers up to 70 point Alphas to every other Mech they shoot at. Which the IS has absolutely no equivalent of.

Yeah, what a terrible weapon system those Clan Streak 4s and 6s are!

---

But seriously, get a grip. Clan Tech is inherently phenomenal. Being able to fight on with only one torso and a crapton of lighter, longer-ranged weapons, adds at least 30% to my score every match. I have chassis that I can min/max to my heart's content and I'm not confined to playing whatever specific Mechs with specific loadouts made it into Paul's Magical Quirk Cookbook.

The remaining IS quirks - on only some IS chassis with only some specific loadouts - are a paltry balancing offset to the significant advantages that every Clan Mech inherently receives.

Even though I am personally benefitting from the recent over-nerfing of IS Mechs, I think it's just embarrassing for those of us who pilot Clans Mechs to have been complaining in the first place.

(And they're STILL complaining! "My Dire Whale got killed by an Oxide, Uncle Russ, you must nerf!" "My ICF isn't as good as my ACH, Uncle Russ, you must buff".)

Edited by Appogee, 21 February 2016 - 11:30 PM.

[Ace Selin]

Nauht, on 21 February 2016 - 09:27 PM, said:

1 - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2458bcfc8c9368c

2 - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b919a792e2ffb05

Dont own the Marauder but that is an interesting build for sure. Wonder how the 7S Warhammer would do with 3xSRM6 and some medium lasers now that you reminded me of those mechs from your answer number 2.

Hmm yes forgot about the Warhammer because its so new, which i actually have. I will try a version of your build tonight actually, thank you.

Gyrok, on 21 February 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

SRM Brawler as requested

AC10 mech as requested

Mechlab is hard, I know...but once you learn it...it is a wonderful thing.

Also, I run both of those...and they are quite brutal.

Answered before you posted. Oh and you must be an a.ss in real life too i guess.

Edited by Ace Selin, 21 February 2016 - 11:26 PM.

[DovisKhan]

Imperius, on 21 February 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

IS and clans have the same range and IS has structure buffs top clan mechs don't, please stop crying about anything and everything already?!?

LOL wut noob?

Clan ER large has ~100 meters on top of IS er large

Clan Large pules has ~300 meters on top of IS Large pulse

Clan Medium has ~70 on top of IS medium

Clan Small has ~2x the range of IS small

Clan Small Pulse has ~2x range of IS small pulse


ClanXL is much better than ISXL engine


Clans have more hardpoints and carry more weapons



It was balanced, now it's clan easy mode, enjoy while it lasts

[Lupis Volk]

Appogee, on 21 February 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Meantime I'm running around in a Jenner IIC doing pretty much what the Oxide does, but with more range and tubes. And the fact that ACHs run around doing 30 point SPL alphas in the back of IS Assaults at longer range, under ECM, and with no ammo dependency, doesn't get mentioned.

Clans are also making a concerted whinepaign to get the Ice Ferret buffed, because "we paid money for a Light Mech that isn't as dominating as the Arctic Cheetah".

Wah!

Shhh IS are OP no matter what. /s

the hypocrisies of clammers annoy me. they want their cake and to eat it while IS players are constantly kicked in the face.

[Nauht]

Ace Selin, on 21 February 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

Dont own the Marauder but that is an interesting build for sure. Wonder how the 7S Warhammer would do with 3xSRM6 and some medium lasers now that you reminded me of those mechs from your answer number 2.

Hmm yes forgot about the Warhammer because its so new, which i actually have. I will try a version of your build tonight actually, thank you.

That MAD config wrecks as a brawler. The MAD already was tanky as hell cos of its hitboxes but combine that with JJ and you'll beat the TW. I rushed the config but I usualky have most of my lasers on the opposite side of the SRMs. That way when you lost a side you're still somewhat effective.

Really enjoyed that build for when I was playing it. However the grognard in me just couldn't accept desecreting such an iconic mech for very long. So now I play my MADs and WHMs as close to stock, with PPC arm, whenever possible.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Clans have so many advantages right now it stopped being funny

i want Light Fusion Engines for IS - durability and size of a Clan XL, but half-way between IS Standard and XL in weight - about time we get the ability to return the Clanners as much as they are dishing out on us

Clanner lasers are simply laser vomit, they have better weapon system choices, both more tank and more gank... and even their damn LRMs can brawl
meanwhile IS has a doubtful quirk advantage in SOME cases, worse equipment across the board... and just their skill alone to depend on against the clanners - dont get me wrong, i get a sense of accomplishment whenever i manage to take down a clanner and i enjoy that... but its not balanced

Clans are supposed to be stronger, sure, but they are also supposed to suffer from numerical disadvantage and weird honor code - none of which translates into the stomps of Clan mechs in PUG matches, and sure as hell does not apply in CW

without these (or similar/equivalent) balancing factors, they either have to be balanced to IS... or are just plain flat out better, and they are... and it hurts

[Lykaon]

Karmen Baric, on 21 February 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

So now we starting to see Clan mechs with TC and ERLL on Boreal Vault, where i was getting damage a lot and didnt see any damage on same enemy mechs with my IS ERLL.
So this is level playing field where multiple Clan mechs can damage you and you cant get out door for fear of being killed and cant damage enemy with same (but IS) weapon.

On all other maps all you see is Timberwolves with SRM6 & lasers followed by some UAC mechs Streak Crows, SRM6 Dogs. Again with how fast Clan mechs move once these mechs are on you, your mech is dead. Apart from Atlas (you cant bring 3) to counter this, IS dont have any mech to fight against such a superior mech as the SRM6 jump capable Timberwolf. So again in close range in CW, the Clans always win, with 2 equal sides.

So i see this is what Clan players wanted, to win easy. You know what they say if you cant beat em because their mechs are better join em.

The counter is having more structure to soak the damage as you remove the range advantage. And once the fighting gets close the I.S. mechs handle heat significantly better.

This is not 100% on the money working right now but it does look like the direction the balance passes have been leaning towards.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

problem is that by the time you get to use that structure quirk... you're either dropping parts left and right... or you're long dead because you got eaten out like a dessert by that quad CERLL TimberWolf with a targeting computer thats sitting just outside your effective range

[Repasy Cooper]

I could care less about all the back-and-forth whining you folks have done forever. Personally, I think the balance is better than it's ever been, finally seeing IS and Clan mechs going toe-to-toe on an equal footing, been having some very, very good games lately.

I've always piloted the same Clan stock loadouts, I have very few minimally customized Clan mechs. The stock loadouts are so much fun! I could care less about today's laser-barf meta, because it comes and goes like the tide. The real pilots in this game understand that the only way to become consistent in this game is to diverge from the meta, even if only slightly (we are not all made equal in willpower after all). I've even been piloting some stock IS variants lately and damn!!! I never thought I'd hear myself thinking a stock IS variant is awesome! Standard everything, still kicking ***.

My take on the sudden resurgence of the Clans in ComWar is simply that a lot of the big 10 have bounced back to the Clan factions. You guys take a look at the tags right? It's pretty clear that the winning trend follows the big units, not the meta, not the nerfs.

[DovisKhan]

Lykaon, on 22 February 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

The counter is having more structure to soak the damage as you remove the range advantage. And once the fighting gets close the I.S. mechs handle heat significantly better.

This is not 100% on the money working right now but it does look like the direction the balance passes have been leaning towards.

But heat management is on Clan side when you actually look into comparable weapons:


3 ERLL - 27 dmg, 24 heat, 15 tons, 6 slots < ~800 range

2 CLPL - 26 dmg, 20 heat, 12 tons, 4 slots < 720 range


^ the IS erll also needs duration quirks to channel as fast as clpl


All in all, clans have clearly superior lasers and they'll also bring more of them in total

Repasy, on 22 February 2016 - 01:44 AM, said:

I could care less about all the back-and-forth whining you folks have done forever. Personally, I think the balance is better than it's ever been, finally seeing IS and Clan mechs going toe-to-toe on an equal footing, been having some very, very good games lately.

I've always piloted the same Clan stock loadouts, I have very few minimally customized Clan mechs. The stock loadouts are so much fun! I could care less about today's laser-barf meta, because it comes and goes like the tide. The real pilots in this game understand that the only way to become consistent in this game is to diverge from the meta, even if only slightly (we are not all made equal in willpower after all). I've even been piloting some stock IS variants lately and damn!!! I never thought I'd hear myself thinking a stock IS variant is awesome! Standard everything, still kicking ***.

My take on the sudden resurgence of the Clans in ComWar is simply that a lot of the big 10 have bounced back to the Clan factions. You guys take a look at the tags right? It's pretty clear that the winning trend follows the big units, not the meta, not the nerfs.

Lol, so you're balanced because you personally gimp your builds, how does that make Clan vs IS balanced?

You do understand you just demolished your own argument, by saying you have toe to toe matches with your gimped builds vs optimized IS builds right?

Edited by DovisKhan, 22 February 2016 - 01:50 AM.

[Repasy Cooper]

DovisKhan, on 22 February 2016 - 01:49 AM, said:

Lol, so you're balanced because you personally gimp your builds, how does that make Clan vs IS balanced?

You do understand you just demolished your own argument, by saying you have toe to toe matches with your gimped builds vs optimized IS builds right?

How are the stock Clan loadouts gimped? They come optimized in the freaking box! I just leave them beauties untouched.

You highlight perfectly the point I was trying to get across, that the meta blinds people from a mech's true potential. I bet none of you meta chasers ever go back and retry stock loadouts.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Repasy, on 22 February 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

How are the stock Clan loadouts gimped? They come optimized in the freaking box! I just leave them beauties untouched.

You highlight perfectly the point I was trying to get across, that the meta blinds people from a mech's true potential. I bet none of you meta chasers ever go back and retry stock loadouts.

i intentionally avoid meta.... and he's right, you are gimping yourself and then thinking Clan is comparable to IS

you're wrong

[DovisKhan]

Repasy, on 22 February 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

How are the stock Clan loadouts gimped? They come optimized in the freaking box! I just leave them beauties untouched.

You highlight perfectly the point I was trying to get across, that the meta blinds people from a mech's true potential. I bet none of you meta chasers ever go back and retry stock loadouts.

Just because Clan stock builds don't come nearly as in terrible shape as IS stock builds does not mean stock builds are anywhere near optimized.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8e9a5f483b9e505

^ Just look at that craptastic stock setup, 5 separate weapons, all with different firing patterns, would require godlike coordination and even if all planets did align and you somehow got all weapons to hit a single component, that's still a crappy 41 damage, yes, if you run train wrecks like this I can see how you find IS balanced.

Try it against this random build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ed71d2ce435a6e8

I'd be surprised if the stock guy won even 1 of 10 times and that's against a build that I didn't even take any time to field test and fine tune.

[Aresye]

Appogee, on 21 February 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

But here's the thing. Very few matches outside of the top tiers of competitive play consist of "the best IS Mechs". In the CW queue, you get teams with this assortment of poor IS Mechs vs Timbies, Whales, Crows, Hellbringers. So most actual matches the Clans have the better Mechs due to the inherent advantages of Clan Techs, and if you're lucky, half the Mechs at any given time will be the IS quirked meta-Mechs.

lol, okay...so balance is bad because poor IS players take crap mechs against nothing but good Clan mechs?

You don't balance to the scrub tier underhive. You balance at the highest level of play, where both sides take the absolute best mechs and loadouts. You balance in this manner because it takes player skill out of the equation, so you're left with a fairly accurate representation of how the mechs themselves fare against each other.

And what did we see when this very test was conducted about a month ago? IS won 6 out of 6 games. 48 Clan mechs and 6 IS mechs destroyed total. Even the teams switched techs halfway through to ensure there wasn't a team imbalance.

Even while this test was being conducted, before PGI announced the planned nerfs to the absolutely absurd IS ERLL ranges, there were STILL people advocating to nerf Clan mechs even further.

I swear some of you folks base your opinions on some deeply rooted hatred for Clans ever since FASA released them over 2 decades ago, and won't be content until every Clan mech is completely unplayable.