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#1 Groovdog

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 07:01 AM

Yeah I know PSR is all messed up, I can read. But here is my personal observations.

I suck. I know it. I am ok with it. I should be at best Tier 3 especially right now. So that's the background.

So I can have a crap run and if we win my PSR goes up. If I l have a decent match, and we lose, it stays steady. Since moving from Tier 4 to Tier 3 (about 10 days ago) my Win/Loss is a net -60. My KDR has gone down 0.25 (I am skilling mechs so this doesnt help but I have been doing that since day 1). And I am about 30% into Tier 3???? How does this make any sense?? I have no doubt I will end up in Tier 2 and shouldnt if it was indicative of the 20-40% best players.

There are so many easy answers to this, but PGI appears to just not care. Well I will give them a reason to care. I have spent $600+ in six weeks (and as completionist and someone with more $ than time I would likely buy every mech and the xp to level them).

As it stands, I can not convince myself to spend any more money on this game because the system is just guaranteeing I will be less competitive going forward as I routinely get better and better players as I level up in this BS system. And with no real end game that I can contribute to its just that much worse.

So in short PGI fix the stupid PSR system. I should not go/up or down based on PUG wins/losses but rather solely based on my performance.

And while you are at it fix CW by adding PvE (with far less rewards/impact), fixing PvP (if PSR was fixed maybe this would help the MM), fixing rewards, etc. But like all F2P you dont really care and why that model is eventually going to die in games requiring actual skill (ie not P2W). If Mechwarrior EGA 25 years ago can create viable CW with only PvE just imagine what you could do with PvP as well. But there is a reason games suck nowadays, designers are worried about pixels and not gameplay. Its also the reason why Bethesda prints money with SP games PC games. And if you think CoD makes money with its PC players than maybe you should go get their financials. They make it on consoles. Maybe you guys should get a clue.

Edited by Groovdog, 21 February 2016 - 07:05 AM.


#2 MrMadguy

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 07:19 AM

Look at the stats of 'Mechs, I currently play.
Posted Image
I'm at 90% Tier 3 and keep advancing. How can it happen with such terrible stats? PSR is totally broken and have to be fixed immediately!

200dmg and 600XP per match in HGN-733C. K/D = 0.37. 81 death in 98 matches, i.e. just 17 survivals. 83% deaths rate. And PGI still thinks, that enemies don't stomp me hard enough??? Go to hell with your PSR crap, PGI!

Edited by MrMadguy, 21 February 2016 - 07:32 AM.


#3 Johnny Z

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 07:45 AM

View PostGroovdog, on 21 February 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yeah I know PSR is all messed up, I can read. But here is my personal observations.

I suck. I know it. I am ok with it. I should be at best Tier 3 especially right now. So that's the background.

So I can have a crap run and if we win my PSR goes up. If I l have a decent match, and we lose, it stays steady. Since moving from Tier 4 to Tier 3 (about 10 days ago) my Win/Loss is a net -60. My KDR has gone down 0.25 (I am skilling mechs so this doesnt help but I have been doing that since day 1). And I am about 30% into Tier 3???? How does this make any sense?? I have no doubt I will end up in Tier 2 and shouldnt if it was indicative of the 20-40% best players.

There are so many easy answers to this, but PGI appears to just not care. Well I will give them a reason to care. I have spent $600+ in six weeks (and as completionist and someone with more $ than time I would likely buy every mech and the xp to level them).

As it stands, I can not convince myself to spend any more money on this game because the system is just guaranteeing I will be less competitive going forward as I routinely get better and better players as I level up in this BS system. And with no real end game that I can contribute to its just that much worse.

So in short PGI fix the stupid PSR system. I should not go/up or down based on PUG wins/losses but rather solely based on my performance.

And while you are at it fix CW by adding PvE (with far less rewards/impact), fixing PvP (if PSR was fixed maybe this would help the MM), fixing rewards, etc. But like all F2P you dont really care and why that model is eventually going to die in games requiring actual skill (ie not P2W). If Mechwarrior EGA 25 years ago can create viable CW with only PvE just imagine what you could do with PvP as well. But there is a reason games suck nowadays, designers are worried about pixels and not gameplay. Its also the reason why Bethesda prints money with SP games PC games. And if you think CoD makes money with its PC players than maybe you should go get their financials. They make it on consoles. Maybe you guys should get a clue.


Translation. "I am a mediocre experienced player and I want to play against newbies"

Tier 4 and 5 are not for bad players its for new players. Get over it.

Edited by Johnny Z, 21 February 2016 - 07:46 AM.


#4 MrMadguy

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 07:58 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 21 February 2016 - 07:45 AM, said:

Translation. "I am a mediocre experienced player and I want to play against newbies"

Tier 4 and 5 are not for bad players its for new players. Get over it.

You should be where you belong to. This is the most important purpose of MM. Get over it.

My stats show, that Tier 3 - isn't where I belong to. Conclusion? PSR is completely broken and has nothing to do with real skill rating - it forces lower skill players to be punching bags for higher Tiers.

#5 Ghogiel

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 08:52 AM

We need filler players in T1 to farm.

#6 Wintersdark

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 08:58 AM

It's a good thing they've already discussed plans to adjust PSR to be less reliant on win/loss (presumably so poor performances result in more rating loss, particularly on a win).

Hopefully this happens soon.

#7 sycocys

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:00 AM

As frustrating as it is to lose seemingly more often (you really don't because you are 1/24 players) - and as your skill level balances out with other players (equals less ridiculous carry/feel god-like games) you actually don't want to be playing with the T4/T5 players.

The games you get in the underhive are insanely boring and frustrating once you actually develop some skill at the game.

#8 Zoid

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:06 AM

View PostGroovdog, on 21 February 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

I have no doubt I will end up in Tier 2 and shouldnt if it was indicative of the 20-40% best players.


So just a little above average then? Do you have any idea how incredibly terrible the "average" player is in this game? Many times in CW drops I see nearly half the players on both sides with 600 damage or less, from FOUR 'mechs!

View PostGroovdog, on 21 February 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

So in short PGI fix the stupid PSR system. I should not go/up or down based on PUG wins/losses but rather solely based on my performance.


You need a lesson in statistics. The single most important outcome of how well you are doing is your W/L ratio. If you're consistently winning more than you lose, you're doing something right and the inverse is also true. What's nice about PSR is it's basically ELO with a way to prove that yes, you did indeed lose that match because your team was full of idiots. Complain all you want about it but if your PSR is going down, you're (on the average) a detriment to your team, while if it's going up you're not. This is still a team game and how well you help your TEAM win is the most important factor.

#9 Aramoro999

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:09 AM

You ungrateful slobs!

They want u to advance in tiers, so u can get stronger, to become better mechwarriors. How could become more powerful by playing against ppl that are weaker than u. Dont tell me u want to be puglords forever.

Edited by Aramoro999, 21 February 2016 - 09:26 AM.


#10 Kuritaclan

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:09 AM

View Postsycocys, on 21 February 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

The games you get in the underhive are insanely boring and frustrating once you actually develop some skill at the game.

While this is true, it does not help. A T3 player essentially can mixed up with the underhive or the top tier. What maxes essentially no sense. The middle is for the mediocre to fight it out who belong into the underhive and who advance. But fighting everything and getting up is not really a solution.

#11 Ghogiel

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:19 AM

View PostZoid, on 21 February 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:


So just a little above average then? Do you have any idea how incredibly terrible the "average" player is in this game? Many times in CW drops I see nearly half the players on both sides with 600 damage or less, from FOUR 'mechs!



You need a lesson in statistics. The single most important outcome of how well you are doing is your W/L ratio. If you're consistently winning more than you lose, you're doing something right and the inverse is also true. What's nice about PSR is it's basically ELO with a way to prove that yes, you did indeed lose that match because your team was full of idiots. Complain all you want about it but if your PSR is going down, you're (on the average) a detriment to your team, while if it's going up you're not. This is still a team game and how well you help your TEAM win is the most important factor.

It's quite a bit different than Elo. Elo makes predictions and adjusts the amount gain or loss based on who you were playing against based solely on W/L. PSR doesn't do any of that.

#12 sycocys

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:41 AM

View PostKuritaclan, on 21 February 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

While this is true, it does not help. A T3 player essentially can mixed up with the underhive or the top tier. What maxes essentially no sense. The middle is for the mediocre to fight it out who belong into the underhive and who advance. But fighting everything and getting up is not really a solution.

The 5 tier system is just stupid, I called that when they announced it. Should be 10-20 tiers so there's some actual skill progression as you rank up.

#13 pyrocomp

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 09:51 AM

View PostMrMadguy, on 21 February 2016 - 07:19 AM, said:

Look at the stats of 'Mechs, I currently play.
Posted Image
I'm at 90% Tier 3 and keep advancing. How can it happen with such terrible stats? PSR is totally broken and have to be fixed immediately!

200dmg and 600XP per match in HGN-733C. K/D = 0.37. 81 death in 98 matches, i.e. just 17 survivals. 83% deaths rate. And PGI still thinks, that enemies don't stomp me hard enough??? Go to hell with your PSR crap, PGI!

Check the weapon stats page and try to advocate that mechs stats are not borked along with those of weapons. Yes, people claim this stats mean something, but I have stats on that page for mechs I never played (like purchased wave I or loyalty mechs or special mechs). I've seen people claim those stats to be accurate (well, at least KDR), but... well, things change over time. Plus, average for all times does not show your progress or average fro last month. So, present better proof for your words.

#14 Groovdog

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 10:53 AM

View PostZoid, on 21 February 2016 - 09:06 AM, said:


So just a little above average then? Do you have any idea how incredibly terrible the "average" player is in this game? Many times in CW drops I see nearly half the players on both sides with 600 damage or less, from FOUR 'mechs!



You need a lesson in statistics. The single most important outcome of how well you are doing is your W/L ratio. If you're consistently winning more than you lose, you're doing something right and the inverse is also true. What's nice about PSR is it's basically ELO with a way to prove that yes, you did indeed lose that match because your team was full of idiots. Complain all you want about it but if your PSR is going down, you're (on the average) a detriment to your team, while if it's going up you're not. This is still a team game and how well you help your TEAM win is the most important factor.

Dude you have no clue. Take off your internet tough guy shirt.

#1 READ READ READ. My PSR is going up (and far quicker than it should be) while my KDR and win/loss are plummeting.
#2 Statistics. Yeah I know nothing..... I have an MBA in Finance from a Top 5 school. I priced/traded credit and credit derivatives on Wall Street and for the then 14th largest hedge fund in the world. That is ALL stats ALL the time. After leaving that field (went in got an MD) I now work in the medical field doing process improvement based on statistics. I know more about statistics than 99% (notice I didnt say you because there is a chance - that damn statistics thing again - that you know more, but your comments indicate otherwise) of the people on this board.

I said I was bad. I have no desire to get stomped every match especially if there are so many of us baddies out there. I dont need to win every time. Hell I dont need to win more than I lose, but to suggest that an individual's performance out of 24 participants impacts win/loss ratio in any significant way is foolish (especially when that person's performance is towards the mean of the 24 which mine often is not). Why does win/loss matter in individual performance? If I make a big enough difference to sway the match my personal stats show that. If I killed 11 and we still lost then my score should rocket even though we lost. If I got cored after doing 2 alphas I should plummet regardless of who won/lost. I bet you wouldnt suggest the guy on an NBA team who scores 5-8 pts a game over a season impacts the team's outcome (absent all other stats) over that season. In any one game, maybe if he goes off for 30 pts. You wouldnt also suggest that a guy who scores 30pts (with reasonable shot attempts) on a team that wins 25% of their games is a bad player. My stats were average at best against Tier 4/5 (which implies 2-5 for opponents). In Tier 3 (1-5 opponents) my stats are falling off a cliff yet my PSR is going up.

And to all those who say I want it easy. Nope. I want it reasonable. I shifted to Tier 3 and I now either wait to get stomped (since the queue opens to higher tiered players over time) or cant play in a reasonable queue time. Great choices those.

I shouldnt have expected more from an online FPS (which this game shouldnt be) community. Too many players worried about their epeen and having me as a seal makes your stats look better. But dont worry all you guys are going to have the game to yourself soon as the influx of new players will be gone and there is nothing currently to recommend this game to a new player. I wish I had figured that out before I contributed to your ability to play a little longer. Cant wait till they put in a Solaris like function and all you guys avoid it like the plague because you will be matched fairly (at least eventually).

#15 pyrocomp

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 11:52 AM

View PostGroovdog, on 21 February 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Dude you have no clue. Take off your internet tough guy shirt.

#1 READ READ READ. My PSR is going up (and far quicker than it should be) while my KDR and win/loss are plummeting.
#2 Statistics. Yeah I know nothing..... I have an MBA in Finance from a Top 5 school. I priced/traded credit and credit derivatives on Wall Street and for the then 14th largest hedge fund in the world. That is ALL stats ALL the time. After leaving that field (went in got an MD) I now work in the medical field doing process improvement based on statistics. I know more about statistics than 99% (notice I didnt say you because there is a chance - that damn statistics thing again - that you know more, but your comments indicate otherwise) of the people on this board.

I said I was bad. I have no desire to get stomped every match especially if there are so many of us baddies out there. I dont need to win every time. Hell I dont need to win more than I lose, but to suggest that an individual's performance out of 24 participants impacts win/loss ratio in any significant way is foolish (especially when that person's performance is towards the mean of the 24 which mine often is not). Why does win/loss matter in individual performance? If I make a big enough difference to sway the match my personal stats show that. If I killed 11 and we still lost then my score should rocket even though we lost. If I got cored after doing 2 alphas I should plummet regardless of who won/lost. I bet you wouldnt suggest the guy on an NBA team who scores 5-8 pts a game over a season impacts the team's outcome (absent all other stats) over that season. In any one game, maybe if he goes off for 30 pts. You wouldnt also suggest that a guy who scores 30pts (with reasonable shot attempts) on a team that wins 25% of their games is a bad player. My stats were average at best against Tier 4/5 (which implies 2-5 for opponents). In Tier 3 (1-5 opponents) my stats are falling off a cliff yet my PSR is going up.

And to all those who say I want it easy. Nope. I want it reasonable. I shifted to Tier 3 and I now either wait to get stomped (since the queue opens to higher tiered players over time) or cant play in a reasonable queue time. Great choices those.

I shouldnt have expected more from an online FPS (which this game shouldnt be) community. Too many players worried about their epeen and having me as a seal makes your stats look better. But dont worry all you guys are going to have the game to yourself soon as the influx of new players will be gone and there is nothing currently to recommend this game to a new player. I wish I had figured that out before I contributed to your ability to play a little longer. Cant wait till they put in a Solaris like function and all you guys avoid it like the plague because you will be matched fairly (at least eventually).

First, as you state to know the math, do you also know the game to the core? Including behaviour, map glitchces, travel times from point to point and know well the maps and tactics to surely say how to play each and every of them to know how to manuevre you assets (e.g. players and their mech with respect to their loadouts)? If yes, why you are in a T4-T3? If no, how do you evaluate your impact on the match if you do not know all things that influence the match flow? If (it's the second) you are in medicine, how you explain some really useless chmicals that in combination make the huge effect. Just get vit. C and explain it's addition to the rations and all sorts of meds using it's isolated performance.
E.g. can you with all that statistics knoweledge with reasonable reliabbility name the best possible team from right now NBA rooster? Can you really evaluate everything in this game? Specifficaly, can you with reasonable probability claim you know exact things that matter and measure of impact of those things?
I know the math, I know the basics of statistics, I know that if I see a complex system with random inputs and non-linear bonds and boundaries I'd refrain from attempt to build an isolated measures. Really.

Now, to the point. Around the tier boundaries you might with high chances experience W/L drop as under the boundary you may found build/style that is good and pursue the goal of beeing good that allows you not to drop on losses. And thats enough. Also, you could've switched to lights and found (however randomly) the way to give your team advantage (even with timely squirrel run, tha will leave you with low damage, not mentioning scouting that is also vital). Above the tier boundary another set ofconditions may cut in. Like, the higher tier bucket does not allow your tactics to be valuable (like defending flanks in a DIre in T4 is good and in T3 is bad), you'll get less kills and KDR will go down and W/L will also go down. Plus, tier boundaries accumulate people around them, so you have higher chances near the boundaries to have the match with players that accidentally dropped under the boundary while levelling a mech (that is under the boundary), and with players that random brought up (above the boundary). Things will go different ways. Or you are just sitting perfectly in the main crowd and you PSR reflect general population drift towards the higher tiers. THe last is more probable or PGI wouldn't have to change PSR change rules' only match score formula.

PS: if you get 5 kills in a loss (not kill steams but a couple of solos and up to 4 KMMD) you will gain in PSR. Checked.
If you go down being corred after two alphas you most probably won't gain in PSR in a win (unless scouting etc.).
So, you will not see the T2 for a long time, and if you'll see it... well, you are measured against that crowd. Do not know what should the T2 player ba able to do in your opinion, but really, not more than T3. In 1v1 sure. In terms of map reading and etc can't say, but hope that this is the point with 'a lot more' (but how to factor it other than trough W/L?).

Edited by pyrocomp, 21 February 2016 - 11:53 AM.






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