95 replies to this topic

[wamX]

Hey all. I had a question.

Why does ERPPC and PPC suck as a weapon.

What I mean is: (i actually like PPC quite a bit)

It has less damage but similar tonnage of a Large Pulse Laser, granted it does have good range

PPC's have a minimum range for a valid canonical reason that makes logical sense

The reason for the minimum range...doesnt exactly get used anywhere else.

Right now, the only reason why I like it is because it looks cool, it sounds cool, and my mechs are quirked for it.

Proposal:

Buff the PPC's

Not in damage, because that is a valid trade-off for utility.

Getting hit by a PPC should do the following:
Disable ECM (Currently doing)
Reset mech electronics minorly
Drop Locked targets
Hud flicker / scramble
Reset Gauss Charges
Reduction in mobility (to a degree)
reduction in speed (to a degree)

Getting hit by massive PPC waves (Say like... 5? at once)
Shut down your mech (Critical computer error / recycle)

The whole point of a PPC is to screw with electronics.

The ERPPC should be kept the same in terms of range (Say the mech equipping them has hardened electronics that prevent the screwing of ones own systems.

This could also bring a new pilot module into the game Simply called Hardened electronics, which severely dampens the effects by PPCs

This applies some more use to the weapon as it is a heavy utility weapon, much like the flamer, just it doesn't do any damage.

This would need some balancing as of course, quick everyone run 2PPC builds and keep firing at your enemy to lock them down and prevent the game from continuing..

Polite discussion, Commence!

[TexAce]

I dont have anything against giving weapons more character but I think the first thing they should do is lower heat on both by a value of 1.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TexAce, on 24 February 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

I dont have anything against giving weapons more character but I think the first thing they should do is lower heat on both by a value of 1.

Heat still isn't the real problem, velocity is, requiring PPC velocity quirks to remotely be useful is pretty indicative of the problem, well the major one at least, ghost heat being severely punishing of PPFLD mechs is still remnants of the poptarts and 4 PPC Stalker days and could probably be undone a bit so it isn't near as punishing since they aren't near as scary as they used to be.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 February 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Or perhaps just make the GH threshold 3 instead of the current 2 and adjust the heat "increase" level accordingly

Since all PPC's are "Linked", no worries about other weapons being affected.

Edited by Almond Brown, 24 February 2016 - 09:12 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Lore or canon or whatever...if they got rid of the minimum range on the regular PPC, I think you would see WAY more people running it. As it is, unless there are significant quirk advantages there is no reason to take a PPC over an LPL.

I like all the additions you propose, I just don't think they would be necessary (and frankly I can't imagine PGI implementing most if any) to increase the utility of the PPC. Its biggest issues are the oft cited hit registration anomalies, its high heat, its slow velocity...and as I mention in regard to the standard PPC...its minimum effective range. Fix/Adjust any one of those and you would see the weapon used more often.

[TexAce]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 February 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

Heat still isn't the real problem, velocity is, requiring PPC velocity quirks to remotely be useful is pretty indicative of the problem, well the major one at least, ghost heat being severely punishing of PPFLD mechs is still remnants of the poptarts and 4 PPC Stalker days and could probably be undone a bit so it isn't near as punishing since they aren't near as scary as they used to be.

No, pinpoint damage is high enough, we dont need 30point alphas by 3 PPCs (+ Gauss + lasers and whatnot) to be fired into one pixel without any punishment.

I'm absolutely against upping the GH threshold.

And I dont mind PPC velocity either. Leading targets is OP for too many ppl it seems.

Everyone wants to dumb this game even more down it seems.

Edited by TexAce, 24 February 2016 - 09:17 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TexAce, on 24 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

No, pinpoint damage is high enough, we dont need 30point alphas (+ Gauss + lasers and whatnot) to be fired into one pixel without any punishment.

I'm absolutely against upping the GH threshold.

We currently have Dual Gauss, how many people are complaining about that? PPCs also have high heat compared to the Gauss's 1.

TexAce, on 24 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

And I dont mind PPC velocity either. Leading targets is OP for too many ppl it seems.

Or it is too slow that against any good poker you are unable to react fast enough to hit reliably unless you are trying to time their pokes, and even then the reward isn't worth the risk.

TexAce, on 24 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Everyone wants to dumb this game even more down it seems.

Keeping certain weapons ineffective is somehow "dumbing" down the game ? Making it hard to aim or hit reliably doesn't make this game "smarter", it just reduces the number of strong weapons.

[Raso]

My thoughts to buff the PPCs are:
-Overall velocity buff. This is mandatory. It shouldn't be usless in everything but heavily quirked mechs.
-Slightly increased range.
-A look at it's heat. Maybe a minor reduction
-Scramble effect. Cause targets to be lost, radar to fail, current LRM and SSRM tracking to break, TAG to fail, MASC and JJs to shut down etc. Disruption should last as long ECM disrupt effect.
-If higher velocity and lowe heat makes pin point damage too much of a fuss (we already have cooler ACs so it should) then give them the clantreatment and have them deal 8 damage pinpoint and 1 to adjoining components.

I think range and velocity are more tjan enough, though. Clanners want the range advantage in lasers? Fine. Give IS some boss PPCs to counter. Make them usful.

[ReguIus]

1. Projectile speed -> 2km/s
2. Damage would be hard capped between the range bracket of the weapon. I.e. PPC would only deliver the damage if the target was between 90 - 540 m. The ERPPC would respectively deal damage between 0 - 810 m.

The point here is to make the (ER)PPC a powerful weapon within its range limit. PPC has long been unfavored weapon due to slow projectile. Currently the problem is that if you speed it up until it becomes useful again, you will see nothing but Gauss+ERPPC sniper builds firing from 1 - 1.5 km thanks to the maximum effective range of either 1080 m or 1620 m. Strict limitation to optimum range would leave room for ERLL and Gauss rifles as valid alternatives for long range combat.

Edited by ReguIus, 24 February 2016 - 09:44 AM.

[Moomtazz]

Raso, on 24 February 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

-Overall velocity buff. This is mandatory. It shouldn't be usless in everything but heavily quirked mechs.
-A look at it's heat. Maybe a minor reduction

I've been using PPCs quit a bit over the last two weeks and I think a 50% velocity increase is required to make them viable again. Of course remove the existing velocity quirks. A reduction in heat would make them very appealing but might even push them into OP land. I'd be happy with the velocity first and see how that goes.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Hit Reg plus heat plus slow velocity = suckage....

[Zookeeper Dan]

First you have to decide what role you want PPC's to play. I think they should be the go-to sniper weapon. Have them deal full damage up their max range.

If you can hit a target out at 1,600 M you deserve to do 10 or 15 damage!

Other then that I'd maybe reduce heat by 1, be able to fire 3 IS without ghost heat (same damage as 2 Clan PPC's), and have PPC's damage drop off between 90 and 0 meters (like Clan LRM's) instead of no damage below 90 meters.

[dwwolf]

MechWarrior5152251, on 24 February 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Hit Reg plus heat plus slow velocity = suckage....

Dont forget the hitbox that seems to attract clipped terrain.

[MoonUnitBeta]

dwwolf, on 24 February 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

MechWarrior5152251, on 24 February 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Hit Reg plus heat plus slow velocity = suckage....

Dont forget the hitbox that seems to attract clipped terrain.

And the terrible VFX...

[Raso]

Moomtazz, on 24 February 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

I've been using PPCs quit a bit over the last two weeks and I think a 50% velocity increase is required to make them viable again. Of course remove the existing velocity quirks. A reduction in heat would make them very appealing but might even push them into OP land. I'd be happy with the velocity first and see how that goes.

Going from my Firebrand to one of my Battlemasters and using PPCs was painful. I'm shooting lightning it should NOT move this slow!

[Lugh]

PPC and ERPPC velocity needs to go back to being at LEAST max range a second. That is the only way that you can have PPCs and ERPPCs trade with instant on lasers at all ranges.

As it is now. The lasers can shoot and scoot faster the old kings of shoot and scoot.

1 second to reach max range is fair, that way at .5 seconds you have gone to optimal range, the lasers have done half or more of their burn and things are equitable again.

Currently: if you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a PPC.

[Chimera_]

The only times I have ever tried using PPCs, I ended up swapping out for another weapon and doing much better. I think my main issue with them is the velocity. Sure they're pinpoint, but without velocity quirks your enemies are going to have to be sitting still and completely oblivious for you to hit desired parts in any kind of long-range scenario. Unquirked PPCs are extremely easy to see before they hit and leave time to twist/avoid at ranges >700ish.

Pinpoint is good, but as it stands I've found them to be inferior to laser weapons in almost every practical sense.

[Khobai]

Quote

PPC and ERPPC velocity needs to go back to being at LEAST max range a second. That is the only way that you can have PPCs and ERPPCs trade with instant on lasers at all ranges.

Or you could just reduce the range of the offending lasers (notably the CLPL).

Makes way more sense to nerf lasers than buff ERPPC velocity. It accomplishes the same end goal of making ERPPCs better at long range than lasers. But does so in a way that improves time to kill.

Nerfing lasers improves TTK while buffing PPC velocity not only doesnt improve TTK but could potentially make it worse by reintroducing viable long-range pinpoint damage.

Edited by Khobai, 24 February 2016 - 11:15 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 24 February 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Or you could just reduce the range of lasers.

Because clearly those Small Lasers and Medium Pulse Lasers are shooting too far.

Khobai, on 24 February 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Makes more sense to nerf lasers than buff PPCs.

Because nerfing lasers improves TTK while buffing PPCs not only doesnt improve TTK but could potentially make it worse.

People said that it made more sense to nerf PPCs than the buff lasers while we had the PPC/AC meta.

Look where that got us.

[Glaucon]

PPC is only usable on mech with 25-30% speed quirks, thats a joke. Imagine that lasers would only be usable with 25-30% range quirks....