95 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 February 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

To be fair, Class IV JJs (medium JJs) are actually really nice (and better than Class V for whatever reason), unfortunately they are the only ones.


Hyperbolic, but either way, we kind of have that already.....


You may spread it across the torso, but it is still more consistent damage than most projectiles, or do you think that comp players take ERLL mechs for 1000m because we like to kill targets inefficiently? Though if the JM6-A wasn't so slow, it would be used more often, because 2700m/s Gauss is much nicer to use at that range.

sorry I can only laugh about people calling themselves "comp players" but at the same time want to reduce this game into simple pointclick adventures.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TexAce, on 24 February 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

sorry I can only laugh about people calling themselves "comp players" but at the same time want to reduce this game into simple pointclick adventures.

Ignoring your rampant use of strawman arguments about how 2000m/s projectiles at 1km is point and click (which it isn't), the only change if velocity was given to PPCs would be that they are actually considered for use, and I bet even then, you would be getting 12-0'd consistently by the better comp players, so there must be more to this game than gunnery huh?

Also, I want to repoint out as I always do in velocity discussions, the lowest velocity weapon in MW4 outside of flamers and missiles, was the AC20 at 2000m/s with certain mods bringing the PPCs as high as 4000m/s and yet they often got traded over for ACTUAL point and click weapons like lasers despite much worse heat to damage ratio, so let that sink in for a bit (though this was partially due to lag, but still).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 February 2016 - 12:38 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

You guys know what happens when PPCs move at 2000 m/s? You know why it was slowed down from that?

If not, then you're not qualified to suggest PPC buffs.

But hey, why not just buff them to 2000 and raise the GH to 3. Who doesn't love long-range 45pt Aplhas that hit a single pixel with practically zero travel time...right?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Prosperity Park, on 24 February 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:

But hey, why not just buff them to 2000

So why don't we have BJ-3s, RFL-5Ds, WHM-6Rs, MAD-3Rs running around spamming all the ERPPCs at near 2000m/s speed (1800m/s for ERs with quirks) instead of ERLLs being used?

Yes I am aware you said PPCs, but you also mentioned Alpine which calls for longer range than PPCs are capable of without larger quirks than what ERLLs get.

I should also mention I am ok with trading cooldown for better velocity.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 February 2016 - 12:55 PM.

[Scar Glamour]

Slight buffs to speed/recycle/heat should do the trick. Right now doubly limited range, projectile speed and high heat make IS PPCs situational and mediocre.

On the other hand, I don't think raising GH limit to three is a good idea at all.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 February 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

So why don't we have BJ-3s, RFL-5Ds, WHM-6Rs, MAD-3Rs running around spamming all the ERPPCs at near 2000m/s speed (1800m/s for ERs with quirks) instead of ERLLs being used?

Yes I am aware you said PPCs, but you also mentioned Alpine which calls for longer range than PPCs are capable of without larger quirks than what ERLLs get.

There are only a few mechs in the game right now that have PPCs buffed to Gauss Slug velocity. Many people in this thread are saying we should bring PPCs BACK to Gauss Slug velocity for all Mechs, like they use to be.

So, anyone who says PPCs should move at 2000 m/s are just asking for PPC+Gauss synergy again.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 24 February 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[CygnusX7]

Accurately fire PPC/ERPPC's all match long and end up with 200-300 damage. :|

Switch to LPL's and damage doubles.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Prosperity Park, on 24 February 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

There are only a few mechs in the game right now that have PPCs buffed to Gauss Slug velocity.

Yep, and a couple of them are considered top-end, yet not when they are running PPCs (BJ-3 specifically).

Though I'd be willing to see PGI do a monthly ramp up on projectile velocities (and reduction in quirks in turn) to see what kind of effect that on projectiles rather than making a huge change like buffing ERPPCs from 1200m/s to 2000m/s in one patch. The ideal velocity to me is for every 30m of range a weapon has, it gains 100m/s for velocity.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 February 2016 - 01:06 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 February 2016 - 12:59 PM, said:

Yep, and a couple of them are considered top-end, yet not when they are running PPCs (BJ-3 specifically).

HAHAHAHA!

When's the last time you saw a BJ3 with Gauss + 2 or 3 PPCs?

Never. Too light.

Think of heavy/Assault Mechs and get back to me when you have a good excuse to give them PPCs that have the same exact flight profile as Gauss slugs.

[Black Ivan]

PPCs and ERPPCs don't work in the game

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Prosperity Park, on 24 February 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

When's the last time you saw a BJ3 with Gauss + 2 or 3 PPCs?

Except mediums ran PPCs as well during that era, so if a BJ-3 with 2-3 PPCs isn't competitive it probably shouldn't be too much elsewhere. The WHM-6R can also run the good ol 4 PPC with decent chest mounts, so you may want to keep that in mind as well.

Prosperity Park, on 24 February 2016 - 01:03 PM, said:

Think of heavy/Assault Mechs and get back to me when you have a good excuse to give them PPCs that have the same exact flight profile as Gauss slugs.

The HGN-732 may not actually need heavy handed quirks to be good? PPCs/Gauss may be a consideration for heavies and assaults unlike currently, where it isn't outside a few special cases (the rare Timmy/Whale).

Though there would be concerns over the Whale and Timmy, but if cooldown was increased in compensation (5.0-6 sec) that could be enough to limit the potential DPS of the mech.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 February 2016 - 01:14 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 24 February 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

Except mediums ran PPCs as well during that era, so if a BJ-3 with 2-3 PPCs isn't competitive it probably shouldn't be too much elsewhere. The WHM-6R can also run the good ol 4 PPC with decent chest mounts, so you may want to keep that in mind as well.


The HGN-732 may not actually need heavy handed quirks to be good? PPCs/Gauss may be a consideration for heavies and assaults unlike currently, where it isn't outside a few special cases (the rare Timmy/Whale).

Though there would be concerns over the Whale and Timmy, but if cooldown was increased in compensation (5.0-6 sec) that could be enough to limit the potential DPS of the mech.

Maybe you don't remember, but before the Laser Meta was the extremely drawn-out PPC+Gauss Meta.

You see, when Gauss Slugs and PPCs have the same flight profile, they work together perfectly. Hot and cold, front-loaded pinpoint damage. Perfect to use together to reduce TTK and prevent brawling from happening, since you cannot torso twist to spread the damage from single point impact and brawlers died very quickly.

Lasers can smear damage. PPC+Gauss is the ultimate killing combination when they have the same flight profile.

It was stopped for a reason.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Prosperity Park, on 24 February 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

Maybe you don't remember, but before the Laser Meta was the extremely drawn-out PPC+Gauss Meta.

And maybe you don't remember that it was partly because JJs were so strong and effective that allowed very minimal exposure and was a strong contributing factor to the PPC+Gauss meta, also when did they bump up the heat on PPCs back to 10? Quirks, Clans, and a few other balance changes have also changed the landscape so that you can't just jump to the conclusion it will be exactly like last time.

That said I'm willing to see more incremental changes to see what all it would actually take to get PPCs to be more seriously considered, but velocity is the key here, not heat.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 24 February 2016 - 01:46 PM.

[Widowmaker1981]

FupDup, on 24 February 2016 - 11:58 AM, said:

It's a funny double-standard of this forum.

Weapon combinations (aka weapon MIXTURES) that sync well together like Goose/Energy are seen as undesirable, and yet some of those same people decry boat builds (aka builds that don't use weapon mixtures) as skilless crutches for dishonorable baddy ugly smelly scumbags.

Because those people want everyone to use ineffective weapon combinations, damnit!

[Clownwarlord]

While what the OP suggests would be lore friendly and entertaining, but I suggest an increase in PPC and ERPPC speed instead to actual lightning speed.

[Widowmaker1981]

clownwarlord, on 24 February 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

While what the OP suggests would be lore friendly and entertaining, but I suggest an increase in PPC and ERPPC speed instead to actual lightning speed.

Well, if you wanted to get technical, a particle projection cannon does damage by kinetic energy transfer, just like a Gauss rifle, except the projectile is MASSIVELY lighter (being a stream of charged particles instead of a big hunk of metal) meaning that in order to actually do any damage whatsoever its velocity would need to be a significant fraction of light speed.

But that would be hitscan, and OP as hell. (i never played previous MW games multiplayer.. how the hell were hitscan lasers with no burntime not the only weapons ever used??)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 24 February 2016 - 02:02 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

PPC/ERPPC is fine. These weapons weren't built to be on every single mech and the fact that everyone was shoehorning them into everything was proof of why PGI did what they did. Personally, I'm fine with it. If I want to PPC, I hop in something that can handle it. Sadly, all weapons should be like that. Make everything bad except for if it is on a chassis built to house it. K2 going from MGs to major ACs without an issue is silly and that is the earliest example we have in this game.

Get over it!

[LordKnightFandragon]

OK, so, I come to the conclusion, that if PPFLD is going to stay, were not going to come to any fixes for PPFLD alpahs and stuff, then ****, just put PPC/GR and all of the above back to the way it used to be. If we want to stack 6 CERPPC on our mechs, press O and alpha our asses off, let us. Cuz, i mean this game is going to be nothing more then an arcade shooter with no immersion, skills or tactics. Its just load up all the PPFLD and shoot till one side stops wiggling.

Be it lasers, PPC/AC/GR/LRM...it doesnt matter. Let us choose w/e method we want as our method to deliver our 90 point alphas. Remove GH, and just put the heat cap back to 100......I mean, its not like this game is ever going to head in any other direction. So, embrace it PGI, stop trying to balance around the meta, stop nerfing one meta, and buffing another, just make it all stupid as **** and OP as hell.

Give us OP everything!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Widowmaker1981, on 24 February 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

i never played previous MW games multiplayer.. how the hell were hitscan lasers with no burntime not the only weapons ever used??

Green and Red large laser spam was actually really common during MW4 multiplayer days, especially while the "catnapping" exploit was around.

[Baba Yogi]

ppc only needs velocity values bumped to quirked numbers with velocity quirks being removed. Although ER PPC also needs 1-2 heat removed from it to be good. Atm it's just too hot, no matter how many heat sinks you have if you use 2erppc regularly you cannot use even one other heat intensive weapon. 20 damage limit is just too low. Without gauss you cant add anything on top of that.