252 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

Sandpit, on 26 February 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

Says it all

Russ stated in townhall it's going away and new system is coming in

and apparently new system goes directly at reducing alpha

About God D*mn M*ther F*cking time!

[Sandpit]

TKSax, on 29 February 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Sandpit you are wrong here, Guass was Still heavily used after the Charge mechanic was put in, and only fell out of favor when the Cool down was upped in the (Jan2016?? patch) to 5.5 and now down (Feb2016 Patch) to 5.0.

point being the laser buff had nothing to do with it falling out of favor of the "meta" type players

[TKSax]

Sandpit, on 29 February 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

point being the laser buff had nothing to do with it falling out of favor of the "meta" type players

I agree but you were saying it fell out long before laser's were buffed.

[Sandpit]

TKSax, on 29 February 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

I agree but you were saying it fell out long before laser's were buffed.

Gauss started being "useless" over a year ago according to many of the tryhards. While lasers were still very underpowered in comparison to the other weapon systems.

My point is simply that lasers getting buffed didn't have anything to do with the Gauss' current position in "weapon ranking" and that the changes being discussed wouldn't somehow shift that balance again in my opinion

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Sandpit, on 29 February 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Gauss started being "useless" over a year ago according to many of the tryhards.

So... basically, your info source on guass falling out of favor is... how shall I put this delicately. Bad? Untrustworthy? Good for a laugh with popcorn? No offense to you, either, just.... bad source of info is bad.

EDIT Also, was this gauss vs laser vomit leading to a point? Seems off topic to me, although then again it's pretty clear there's not going to be much to work with until they do a Command Chair: The Exorcism of Ghost Heat, either.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 01 March 2016 - 12:16 AM.

[TKSax]

Sandpit, on 29 February 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Gauss started being "useless" over a year ago according to many of the tryhards. While lasers were still very underpowered in comparison to the other weapon systems.

My point is simply that lasers getting buffed didn't have anything to do with the Gauss' current position in "weapon ranking" and that the changes being discussed wouldn't somehow shift that balance again in my opinion

You were talking to the Wrong TryHArds then, as I said up until the most recent gauss nerf all the top teams were using Guass and Laser Combos as their go to weapon load outs, espcially on clan mechs. Guess what a lot of those top teams are still using Guass now that the cool down has been lowered to 5.0 again. So I am not sure where or who you were getting your information but it was just wrong.

[Lugh]

KBurn85, on 26 February 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

All that'll do is increase peeking. I'd take my 2xlpl 2xgauss dwf, hide behind some Ridge and alpha people to death. In fact, I'd take 4xlpl instead, since I can afford to reach higher heat, and there's no ghost heat now.

My brawler kgc will never see play. It has a 78dmg alpha, at a max range of 250m. Why take it? One shot and I'll die to peeking pokers.

This'll cause the death of brawlers.

Yes sure. Because firing 6 spls and then 4 SRM6s or 6srm4s in chain fire is too hard to do??? Silly nubbins.

[Lugh]

TKSax, on 29 February 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

I agree but you were saying it fell out long before laser's were buffed.

I can imagine the charge up mechanic annoyed many to no end.

The number of times I have missed an opportunity because the charge up is too long .75 secs when reaction time is .25 means nearly a full second lead up time to taking a shot.

That means unless I already control a corner and have a goodly idea of position before peeking, I don't peek as effectively as someone with UAC5s or Clan Uacs that fire most of the time when the trigger is pulled.

[LORD ORION]

Line drills will become very important as you slowly trade shots.

Again... this is not going to solve the problem of bads getting blitzed in one shot, it going to make it so bads get it 100x worse when facing team players who can focus fire.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lugh, on 01 March 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

That means unless I already control a corner and have a goodly idea of position before peeking, I don't peek as effectively as someone with UAC5s or Clan Uacs that fire most of the time when the trigger is pulled.

If you don't have a good idea of where they are when you are peeking, you are doing it wrong. Also, UAC5s don't do well against mechs peeking, especially at range.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 March 2016 - 08:25 AM.

[Sandpit]

TKSax, on 01 March 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

You were talking to the Wrong TryHArds then, as I said up until the most recent gauss nerf all the top teams were using Guass and Laser Combos as their go to weapon load outs, espcially on clan mechs. Guess what a lot of those top teams are still using Guass now that the cool down has been lowered to 5.0 again. So I am not sure where or who you were getting your information but it was just wrong.

I'm getting my information from being here and playing the game. I can quite clearly remember all the grumblings, rants, and QQ of doom when it was nerfed.
I can then remember quite clearly Gauss not being used very often unless it was ranged fighting or something along the lines of a sniper build.
I can quite clearly remember lasers not beign anywhere NEAR as useful when all of this happened.
over a year ago

Then it shifted to other dakka. Dakka was considered the "king" of the battlefield to "competitive" players. There's no "where did I get my info from"

I got my info from being here, reading the forums, playing in the game, and watching the many
many
many
MANY
complaint threads regarding the Gauss before and after the nerf to it going all the way back to the poptart craze.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

I'm getting my information from being here and playing the game.

Very few on this board are comp players, Gauss has been a dominant part of the meta since CB until the huge nerf in the re-balance, the rolling back of that nerf a bit allowed them to sneak back into the meta as many of us still use them.

[Sandpit]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 01 March 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Very few on this board are comp players, Gauss has been a dominant part of the meta since CB until the huge nerf in the re-balance, the rolling back of that nerf a bit allowed them to sneak back into the meta as many of us still use them.

ok, uhm "meta" has nothing to do with "good"

"Meta" is simply a build based on the min/max math, nothing more.

"Meta" has nothing to do with "comp". You think all tier 1 & 2 players take "meta" builds or rely on "meta" builds to win or do well?

This is all getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off-topic though.

All of this is a moot point because it doesn't matter. A new heat system has potential to be a complete and total game changer for this game. I mean form the ground up. This is probably the single largest announcement they've made regarding balance adjustments we've had since they doubled armor.

[TKSax]

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

I'm getting my information from being here and playing the game. I can quite clearly remember all the grumblings, rants, and QQ of doom when it was nerfed.
I can then remember quite clearly Gauss not being used very often unless it was ranged fighting or something along the lines of a sniper build.
I can quite clearly remember lasers not beign anywhere NEAR as useful when all of this happened.
over a year ago

Then it shifted to other dakka. Dakka was considered the "king" of the battlefield to "competitive" players. There's no "where did I get my info from"
.

As Quicksilver said, you are getting your info about what is Popular with the Comp scene from a bad place. As Soon as PGI nerfed PPC's into the ground the it Shifted to Laser Vomit (as most of the comp players said it would) and Gauss, which was well over a year ago. The only Daka that was king of the battlefield were on specific mechs, like the Dire Wolf.

Edited by TKSax, 01 March 2016 - 09:45 AM.

[Sandpit]

TKSax, on 01 March 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

As Quicksilver said, you are getting your info about what is Popular with the Comp scene from a bad place. As Soon as PGI nerfed PPC's into the ground the it Shifted to Laser Vomit (as most of the comp players said it would) and Gauss, which was well over a year ago. The only Daka that was king of the battlefield were on specific mechs, like the Dire Wolf.

Which, as I said, had nothing to do with laser balance.

So again, I disagree with you guys, you disagree with me, that's fine

It's getting off-topic and just turning into a circular argument regarding opinions on "best" "comp" and "meta".

If it helps, you guys are right, Gauss was dropped due to laser buffs.

There, now we can all hug and get back on topic

[Almond Brown]

The Atlas Overlord, on 26 February 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

So light mechs can still spam their 30 points.... assaults and heavies nerfed again.

Moral of the story: Learn to use light mechs, b/c they're removing the only good thing that the big guys have.

And why would the 30 pt from a Assault Mech get treated different than a 30 pt from a Light Mech? Perhaps the Light gets as many 30's as its Heat setup allows and the Assault gets the same, lots of 30's (they may have 2 sets of 30 the Lights 1 set, just no crazy 90pt Alpha's for the Larger lads as it is now...

Moral of the story: Engage your brain (logic circuits) before engaging your keyboard...

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

ok, uhm "meta" has nothing to do with "good"

Actually it has everything to do with it at least within terms of video games.

It means whatever overarching strategy(s)/dropdecs/builds are the strongest, and as I said, Gauss was apart of that for years.

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

This is probably the single largest announcement they've made regarding balance adjustments we've had since they doubled armor.

Which is still cause for concern, because just as it has the chance to push this game in the right direction, it has equal chance to push it in the wrong direction, going back to CB would probably be the wrong direction as much as I loved it (mainly because of Gaussapults).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 01 March 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[TKSax]

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

ok, uhm "meta" has nothing to do with "good"

"Meta" is simply a build based on the min/max math, nothing more.

"Meta" has nothing to do with "comp". You think all tier 1 & 2 players take "meta" builds or rely on "meta" builds to win or do well?

This is all getting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay off-topic though.

All of this is a moot point because it doesn't matter. A new heat system has potential to be a complete and total game changer for this game. I mean form the ground up. This is probably the single largest announcement they've made regarding balance adjustments we've had since they doubled armor.

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

Which, as I said, had nothing to do with laser balance.

So again, I disagree with you guys, you disagree with me, that's fine

It's getting off-topic and just turning into a circular argument regarding opinions on "best" "comp" and "meta".

If it helps, you guys are right, Gauss was dropped due to laser buffs.

There, now we can all hug and get back on topic

Quicksilver means best builds which have everything to do with Comp and the Comp scene. The Best Builds for the Last Year Plus have been Laser Vomit and Guass with Lasers. Guass with its low impact on heat will not be affect by heat cap changes so it will always pair well with weapons that do make heat. Guass Never fell out of favor as the best builds becuase. Laser's were not buffed, just when PPC's were nerfed to the ground they were the next best weapon. Since then Lasers and Mechs have been getting quirked and Nerfed to try to deal with Laser's being the Best Weapon.

Getting your info form the forums on what the best builds are in the game it makes it real hard to take anything you say about how a new heat system will affect the game. There are far better sources than here to get that info.

I am not sure what the new heat system will be I have always been a fan of lowering the heat cap, problem is of course Guass and some ballistics have a much lower impact in heat and could be paired high heat weapons to get a good alpha. Maybe some soft of power draw system that you see mentioned in the Battletech books, but probably the best solution and one the made the most sense was Homeless Bills which means of course it will probably no even be considered.

Edited by TKSax, 01 March 2016 - 10:01 AM.

[FupDup]

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

ok, uhm "meta" has nothing to do with "good"

"Meta" is simply a build based on the min/max math, nothing more.

Min/max math is one of the tools used to determine what is good...

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

"Meta" has nothing to do with "comp". You think all tier 1 & 2 players take "meta" builds or rely on "meta" builds to win or do well?

Tiers don't have anything to do with "comp" either.

In actual "comp" matches, the players do in fact take "meta" builds because they want to maximize their combat effectiveness, which therefore maximizes their chances of winning the match.

In pug queue or something they might use sillier, less serious builds, but when fighting other "compies" they take the best.

[Sandpit]

FupDup, on 01 March 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Min/max math is one of the tools used to determine what is good...

again, I disagree (as do many others in the community)

This topic isn't a discussion about metas though, again, this is spiraling off-topic so let's save all this for another thread shall we?