1212 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

TheArisen, on 27 February 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

In the Townhall Russ basically laid the rules for any new mechs as of this post.
1. Must have existed in 3053 or before. (Min. 1 variant)
2. No new tech.

He also stated in the Jan. Townhall that after the Kodiak it'd be another IS mech (Phawk as we know) but also the next one will be Clan.

Which brings us to a simple question, which Clan mech should be next?

You are spreading false information. Russ stated that while special consideration might be given to older mechs, he later amended that it does not preclude newer mechs from being added. He also stated his willingness to further change stock builds if they have future tech on them, so if anything, the blood asp and the MK II (which he specifically said was on the cusp) are more likely than ever.

[Imperius]

In order...

Mad Cat MK II
Nova Cat
Blood Asp
Uziel

...drops the mic...

[Bishop Steiner]

Uziel ain't a clan mech.

But with your attitude, the number of people cheering your rage Tears each month will just keep growing exponentially.

Salt. Soooooo good for my popcorn.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 February 2016 - 09:06 AM.

[pbiggz]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

Uziel ain't a clan mech.

But with your attitude, the number of people cheering your rage Tears each month will just keep growing exponentially.

he's referring to one off packs, not a four pack.

[Bishop Steiner]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

he's referring to one off packs, not a four pack.

Note the title of OP

Lists next four "clan" mechs. Except the last one isn't. So either he didn't read the OP, got a mech wrong (it happens) or tried to change the conversation without adding context to his post.

Either way, I never said a thing about 4 packs.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 27 February 2016 - 09:10 AM.

[pbiggz]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2016 - 09:08 AM, said:

Note the title of OP

Lists next four "clan" mechs.

Never said a thing about 4 packs.

four 1 off packs?

Marauder, whammy, rifleman, archer, kodiak. Thats 5 one off packs.

Russ said he was thinking of a four pack, but from what I gather, He likes the one off packs better, so I expect to see those instead.

[Bishop Steiner]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

four 1 off packs?

Marauder, whammy, rifleman, archer, kodiak. Thats 5 one off packs.

Russ said he was thinking of a four pack, but from what I gather, He likes the one off packs better, so I expect to see those instead.

Seems to keep tying 4packs to new Omnis whenever the discussion goes there. Honestly I hope it doesn't go back to a four pack until PGI is ready to jump tech/timeline because there aren't enough current interesting/viable Omnis let, IMO.

There are however, plenty of potential Clan Battlemechs.

[pbiggz]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Seems to keep tying 4packs to new Omnis whenever the discussion goes there. Honestly I hope it doesn't go back to a four pack until PGI is ready to jump tech/timeline because there aren't enough current interesting/viable Omnis let, IMO.

There are however, plenty of potential Clan Battlemechs.

Russ said they're willing to replace certain weapons (heavy lasers for example) with their ER counterparts on certain variants. That opens up mechs like the blood asp, many variants of both the MK II and the Nova Cat, and many other variants of light and medium omnimechs and battlemechs both in game and out of game. We no longer have any shortage of omnimechs, because the pool is much larger than many previously assumed.

You can make special consideration for current era omnis, but when there are no current era omnis left...

And don't mention the kingfisher, or the turkina, because they're garbage mechs

Edited by pbiggz, 27 February 2016 - 09:24 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

And don't mention the kingfisher, or the turkina, because they're garbage mechs

Which demonstrates why the pick and choose Mentality is dangerous. Both for fans and developers.

There's no candidates lefty (well, no candidates that I want),!. When instead Devs should be looking for ways to make even those viable.

[Sniper09121986]

Pariah Devalis, on 27 February 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

Pouncer, Coyotl, Phantom, or Viper as 3053 40-ton options.

Spoiler

The ONLY mech out of these that would be remotely competitive IMO is the Viper, which also happens to completely surpass the Ice Ferret. Not that IFR is used often as it is

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

He also stated his willingness to further change stock builds if they have future tech on them.

Here goes the cancer! I am playing since open beta, and the only alterations in mech tech were Clan technology (which is not all that different anyway) and MASC. I fail to understand how people agree to play the same old tech for years now without any alterations of core gameplay. The only new things on the battlefield are maps and mechs that grow all the more similar gameplay-wise. This is absolutely not what I regard as "development". Russ has just acknowledged his commitment to letting the game stagnate, much congrats to all involved.

[EmperorZed]

!!Firemoth!!

[pbiggz]

Sniper09121986, on 27 February 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Spoiler

The ONLY mech out of these that would be remotely competitive IMO is the Viper, which also happens to completely surpass the Ice Ferret. Not that IFR is used often as it is



Here goes the cancer! I am playing since open beta, and the only alterations in mech tech were Clan technology (which is not all that different anyway) and MASC. I fail to understand how people agree to play the same old tech for years now without any alterations of core gameplay. The only new things on the battlefield are maps and mechs that grow all the more similar gameplay-wise. This is absolutely not what I regard as "development". Russ has just acknowledged his commitment to letting the game stagnate, much congrats to all involved.

They're too scared to touch the weapon code. We all knew that. Maybe after the engine upgrade things will be different.

Bishop Steiner, on 27 February 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

Which demonstrates why the pick and choose Mentality is dangerous. Both for fans and developers.

There's no candidates lefty (well, no candidates that I want),!. When instead Devs should be looking for ways to make even those viable.

I disagree, because rule of cool should be the first consideration in adding mechs to the game. You don't add in mechs because they're next on the list, you add them because they will actually add something to the game. If the vapour eagle is cool and will add something to the game (and I think it is) then its likely to get in. The Kingfisher is a STD engined executioner with about as much pod space and hover jets. Just why? It does not pass the rule of cool. Its a fatter, uglier, less effective timberwolf.

Edited by pbiggz, 27 February 2016 - 09:53 AM.

[SkaerKrow]

The impression that I got from the Town Hall was that we're probably going to see another one-off IS pack, and Clan Wave 4, as the releases following what's announced. Granted, a lot of talk went every which way (thanks beer), but those points seemed to be the most succinct among a lot of maybes and coulds.

Dasher is a non-starter because of CryEngine, unless they nerf it, so unfortunately it's probably not going to be in Wave 4. I would expect the Fire Falcon, Nobori-Nin, Linebacker, and Kingfisher to be the choices for Wave 4.

[pbiggz]

SkaerKrow, on 27 February 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

The impression that I got from the Town Hall was that we're probably going to see another one-off IS pack, and Clan Wave 4, as the releases following what's announced. Granted, a lot of talk went every which way (thanks beer), but those points seemed to be the most succinct among a lot of maybes and coulds.

Dasher is a non-starter because of CryEngine, unless they nerf it, so unfortunately it's probably not going to be in Wave 4. I would expect the Fire Falcon, Nobori-Nin, Linebacker, and Kingfisher to be the choices for Wave 4.

Nova Cat and blood asp if we're talking omnis. Kingfisher adds nothing to the game, and the linebacker has less podspace than the shadowcat.

[ScarecrowES]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Nova Cat and blood asp if we're talking omnis. Kingfisher adds nothing to the game, and the linebacker has less podspace than the shadowcat.

Linebacker has 17.5 tons of pod space and enough hardpoints to use them well. It fills a niche that doesn't really exist right now... it would make an excellent mech for community warfare and a unique addition for pugs. It's capable of working within all the current metas, and can keep pace with clan mediums with the same relative firepower but lots more armor. The awesome high-mount torso hardpoints make this a natural flanker, sniper, or rusher.

Honestly, I'd rather have the Linebacker than just about any of the remaining clan options (fitting the current timeline). At least it offers something beyond aesthetics, which seems to be the only reason anyone cares about the Mad Cat mkII.

[pbiggz]

ScarecrowES, on 27 February 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

Linebacker has 17.5 tons of pod space and enough hardpoints to use them well. It fills a niche that doesn't really exist right now... it would make an excellent mech for community warfare and a unique addition for pugs. It's capable of working within all the current metas, and can keep pace with clan mediums with the same relative firepower but lots more armor. The awesome high-mount torso hardpoints make this a natural flanker, sniper, or rusher.

Honestly, I'd rather have the Linebacker than just about any of the remaining clan options (fitting the current timeline). At least it offers something beyond aesthetics, which seems to be the only reason anyone cares about the Mad Cat mkII.

The Adder has 16 tons of podspace. Its 35 tons. A 35 tonner and a 65 tonner should not have only 2 tons between them differentiating their loadouts. The linebacker is another over engined clan omni.

The linebacker is also late clan invasion, just like the nova cat, so to say the nova cat, a 70 tonner with 38 tons of podspace shouldn't come in because its outside of the timeline while the linebacker should, even though its outside your timeline is nonsense.

And aesthetics is not the only reason people support the MK II. We've talked extensively about its possible hardpoints, loadouts, and hitboxes. It has the potential to be a machine, and as a battlemech with engine flexibility and a high engine cap, one of the more dangerous assault mechs in the game. Cockpit level mounted ballistic hardpoints are reason enough alone, and if you take off the missiles, then just like the hunchback IIC's hunch, those racks should disappear, meaning you'll have a nasty low profile assault with an excellent spread of hardpoints and a high engine cap. To say all it offers is aesthetics is simply false.

The blood asp is the same. Has the potential to be a genuinely scary assault omnimech that is fast enough to keep up in community warfare, and has enough pod space to be competitive with assault mechs, rather than just mounting sub-standard timberwolf builds.

Edited by pbiggz, 27 February 2016 - 10:58 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Phantom would be a obvious choice for a quick medium though I'd prefer the Viper for massed jumping shenanigans.

Vapor Eagle is a good machine, I know a few people that would love the see the Incubus.

Huntsman is a nice mech, Kingfisher if properly modeled would be good and Turkina would be a fav of mine if they fix JJs

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

The Adder has 16 tons of podspace. Its 35 tons. A 35 tonner and a 65 tonner should not have only 2 tons between them differentiating their loadouts. The linebacker is another over engined clan omni.

I guess you missed the 4 extra DHS and the 4 extra tons of armor.. hmm Pod space isn't everything.

[ScarecrowES]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

The Adder has 16 tons of podspace. Its 35 tons. A 35 tonner and a 65 tonner should not have only 2 tons between them differentiating their loadouts. The linebacker is another over engined clan omni.

The linebacker is also late clan invasion, just like the nova cat, so to say the nova cat, a 70 tonner with 38 tons of podspace shouldn't come in because its outside of the timeline while the linebacker should, even though its outside your timeline is nonsense.

And aesthetics is not the only reason people support the MK II. We've talked extensively about its possible hardpoints, loadouts, and hitboxes. It has the potential to be a machine, and as a battlemech with engine flexibility and a high engine cap, one of the more dangerous assault mechs in the game. Cockpit level mounted ballistic hardpoints are reason enough alone, and if you take off the missiles, then just like the hunchback IIC's hunch, those racks should disappear, meaning you'll have a nasty low profile assault with an excellent spread of hardpoints and a high engine cap. To say all it offers is aesthetics is simply false.

The blood asp is the same. Has the potential to be a genuinely scary assault omnimech that is fast enough to keep up in community warfare, and has enough pod space to be competitive with assault mechs, rather than just mounting sub-standard timberwolf builds.

I don't disagree that the mechs you mention are potentially interesting. On the other hand, as Russ has said repeatedly, there are other interesting mechs, like the Linebacker, that are simply further ahead in line.

And at least the Linebacker offers us something that we don't really have. The over-engined nature of the mech is what makes it shine. It's basically a Stormcrow with a lot more armor and better hardpoint locations. This makes it sit in a very interesting position for CW. The MkII will just end up being yet another clan assault that has no point in that game mode (where the tonnage matters), and less used in pubs in favor of better assaults (where only class matters). The choice of using the MkII in pubs will only, then, come down to aesthetics. Just my opinion.

Nova Cat though... not sure. I never really cared for the mech. There were always better options in the class. I don't see how the Nova Cat unseats the Timberwolf here.

[Metus regem]

Sniper09121986, on 27 February 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Spoiler

The ONLY mech out of these that would be remotely competitive IMO is the Viper, which also happens to completely surpass the Ice Ferret. Not that IFR is used often as it is

Are you kidding? The Coyotl has nearly double the pod space of the Viper, only locked JJ's in the Alpha, and everything is cockpit level or higher.... And by the way, the Coyotl is only 10kph slower than the Viper....

The Coyotl's only crime was that it came out in the Golden Century supplement, years after TRO 3050, the BV if higher on the Coyotl, it's just as versatile as the Viper, but gets more space for kit.

[pbiggz]

ScarecrowES, on 27 February 2016 - 11:23 AM, said:

I don't disagree that the mechs you mention are potentially interesting. On the other hand, as Russ has said repeatedly, there are other interesting mechs, like the Linebacker, that are simply further ahead in line.

And at least the Linebacker offers us something that we don't really have. The over-engined nature of the mech is what makes it shine. It's basically a Stormcrow with a lot more armor and better hardpoint locations. This makes it sit in a very interesting position for CW. The MkII will just end up being yet another clan assault that has no point in that game mode (where the tonnage matters), and less used in pubs in favor of better assaults (where only class matters). The choice of using the MkII in pubs will only, then, come down to aesthetics. Just my opinion.

Nova Cat though... not sure. I never really cared for the mech. There were always better options in the class. I don't see how the Nova Cat unseats the Timberwolf here.

MK II has good hardpoints and a high engine cap so it can keep up without sacrificing too much to the fixed engine gods. That alone makes it worth taking, regardless of your opinion. To say it doesn't offer anything, but another over engined undergunned heavy mech does offer something new to the game, doesn't make any sense at all.

The linebacker is not a heavier stormcrow because the linebacker has 17 tons of podspace, the stormcrow 23. The linebacker is 10 tons heavier and has

Lucian Nostra, on 27 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

...4 extra DHS and the 4 extra tons of armor...

which do a grand total of: nothing useful, especially if you use a mech like the summoner as an example of an over engined, very fast for its weight but comparatively undergunned mech. The maneuverability of the summoner does not save it from its utterly lackluster firepower, nor will the linebacker's maneuverability save it from its lack of firepower.

We've gone through this before. The Ice Ferret, Shadow Cat, Summoner, Gargoyle, Warhawk, and Executioner all suffer from these same problems. The Linebacker will not be different.
It also makes no sense that you dont care for the nova cat. That doesn't matter. Its a 70 tonner (equal to the summoner) with 38 tons of podspace fully armored and several variants have jumpjets. No mech in the game, save the direwolf perhaps, is that well armed. It has that firepower because its max speed is 65 kph, which is really all you need. There's no reason the nova cat shouldn't be the next clan heavy, except that they might prefer to add the night gyr, which is identical, but has locked hover jets and weighs in at 75 tons instead of 70 (which is why i'd rather have the nova cat).

Lucian Nostra, on 27 February 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

hmm Pod space isn't everything.

It pretty much is. When it comes to the underperforming omnimechs, they all underperform because for their weight, they do not have enough workable weight to carry competitive firepower. And I don't mean competitive as in meta, I mean competitive as able to compete with other mechs of their weight. Compare a blackjack (even post nerf) to an ice ferret and a shadow cat and you will see my point. They can't go toe to toe, they are incapable of it, all because their firepower is limited to a certain tonnage that cannot be exceeded.

TLDR scarecrow, you're pulling a Khobai and writing off the Nova Cat, MK II, blood asp, and others, as DOA or useless because they don't appeal to you personally.

Edited by pbiggz, 27 February 2016 - 12:09 PM.