1212 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

TLDR scarecrow, you're pulling a Khobai and writing off the Nova Cat, MK II, blood asp, and others, as DOA or useless because they don't appeal to you personally.

Naw. I just prefer that whatever we get is... I dunno... different, interesting, compelling, whatever. I have nothing against any of the other mechs you mention. In fact, other than the Nova Cat (a heavy that runs under 70kph? Yuck) I'd actually want to see those in game eventually, even just for their iconic nature within the series. I'd probably never use them, but they'd look cool playing against, at least.

But again, other than just something pretty to look at, I'd want to spend my real cash on something that I don't already have. Something that fills a niche in my mech line-up that isn't being filled by anything else. Something I'd actually want to use in matches. I think the Linebacker fits into that mold better than any of those others. Not saying it's that way for you or anyone else, but it is for me. I don't have to time to invest in mechs that don't offer me anything.

Now, as for many of the mechs you mentioned before, I think most suffer more from a lack of hardpoints, rather than pod space. The Shadowcat has too few energy hardpoints to fit into any current meta. If you saw even an increase over more than the current max 3 energy hardpoints, even to just 5 or 6, this mech would have ended up godly... even trading the ecm to get it. Summoner suffers from an inability to trade out structure to provide for better loadouts with the hardpoints it gets, and doesn't have the Hellbringer's advantage in hardpoints to use the space it has. If the Hellbringer didn't have the option to run up to 7 energy hardpoints in various configurations with good locations, it'd have suffered the same fate as the Summoner. Warhawk is the same way... suffering from too few hardpoints to produce good builds using the space it has. This would have been solved by introducing any number of the remaining available variants - especially the F, which I believe has a high-mount right torso ballistic. If any of these mechs got the same IS hardpoint inflations upon creation, we wouldn't have this problem. Still, most of these mechs are still capable of success in the current game. My 3 Warhawks are all 1000-damage per match mechs. My Shadowcats, 600+-damage mechs easy, and I've had 800+ damage games with them.

So no, I'm not against other mechs. I'm on board. But I want my current-timeline useful mech before we get into far-timeline less-useful ones.

[pbiggz]

ScarecrowES, on 27 February 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Naw. I just prefer that whatever we get is... I dunno... different, interesting, compelling, whatever. I have nothing against any of the other mechs you mention. In fact, other than the Nova Cat (a heavy that runs under 70kph? Yuck) I'd actually want to see those in game eventually, even just for their iconic nature within the series. I'd probably never use them, but they'd look cool playing against, at least.

But again, other than just something pretty to look at, I'd want to spend my real cash on something that I don't already have. Something that fills a niche in my mech line-up that isn't being filled by anything else. Something I'd actually want to use in matches. I think the Linebacker fits into that mold better than any of those others. Not saying it's that way for you or anyone else, but it is for me. I don't have to time to invest in mechs that don't offer me anything.

Now, as for many of the mechs you mentioned before, I think most suffer more from a lack of hardpoints, rather than pod space. The Shadowcat has too few energy hardpoints to fit into any current meta. If you saw even an increase over more than the current max 3 energy hardpoints, even to just 5 or 6, this mech would have ended up godly... even trading the ecm to get it. Summoner suffers from an inability to trade out structure to provide for better loadouts with the hardpoints it gets, and doesn't have the Hellbringer's advantage in hardpoints to use the space it has. If the Hellbringer didn't have the option to run up to 7 energy hardpoints in various configurations with good locations, it'd have suffered the same fate as the Summoner. Warhawk is the same way... suffering from too few hardpoints to produce good builds using the space it has. This would have been solved by introducing any number of the remaining available variants - especially the F, which I believe has a high-mount right torso ballistic. If any of these mechs got the same IS hardpoint inflations upon creation, we wouldn't have this problem. Still, most of these mechs are still capable of success in the current game. My 3 Warhawks are all 1000-damage per match mechs. My Shadowcats, 600+-damage mechs easy, and I've had 800+ damage games with them.

So no, I'm not against other mechs. I'm on board. But I want my current-timeline useful mech before we get into far-timeline less-useful ones.

lots of hardpoints means they can laser vomit. By that definition, the linebacker is hot garbage. Omnimechs dont get hardpoint inflation, so your prime variant has 4 energy and 2 missiles
A also has 4 energy 2 missile
B has 4 energy 1 ballistic
C has 5 energy 3 ballistic.

None of these hardpoint layouts are nearly enough to compensate for having as much podspace as a 35 tonner.

We also have nothing like the nova cat in game. None of the clan heavies come close to mounting that kind of firepower with those kinds of hardpoints. The orion suffers from battletech special hardpoint spread (bit of this bit of that, etc) so its hard to come up with focused builds.

And pretty much all IS heavies run under or at 70. Have you met the marauder yet?

In any case, weight is the problem. weight. weight. weight. weight. weight. Have I said it enough yet?

[Tarogato]

Just gonna call because I don't have better things to do.

It's going to be Clan Wave 4.

- Kingfisher (possibly Turkina)
-Night Gyr
-Black Lanner (possibly Dragonfly)
-Fire Falcon

ezpz.

[pbiggz]

Tarogato, on 27 February 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Just gonna call because I don't have better things to do.

It's going to be Clan Wave 4.

- Kingfisher (possibly Turkina)
-Night Gyr
-Black Lanner (possibly Dragonfly)
-Fire Falcon

ezpz.

Black lanner is cancer too.

Why are you all recommending cancer mechs. 13 tons of podspace.

[ScarecrowES]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

lots of hardpoints means they can laser vomit. By that definition, the linebacker is hot garbage. Omnimechs dont get hardpoint inflation, so your prime variant has 4 energy and 2 missiles
A also has 4 energy 2 missile
B has 4 energy 1 ballistic
C has 5 energy 3 ballistic.

None of these hardpoint layouts are nearly enough to compensate for having as much podspace as a 35 tonner.

We also have nothing like the nova cat in game. None of the clan heavies come close to mounting that kind of firepower with those kinds of hardpoints. The orion suffers from battletech special hardpoint spread (bit of this bit of that, etc) so its hard to come up with focused builds.

And pretty much all IS heavies run under or at 70. Have you met the marauder yet?

In any case, weight is the problem. weight. weight. weight. weight. weight. Have I said it enough yet?

Ok... but then Mad Cat MkII at 90 tons...
2x Ballistic
2x Missile
4x energy or

2x Ballistic
4x Missile
2x Energy

And those are the 2 versions with the most amount of hardpoints. Does this not, then, fit your clear definition of an "over-engined and under-gunned" mech? We're looking at a mech that is going to DEPEND on getting hardpoint inflation to make it viable, right? And who knows if we're going to get that.

Besides, Linebacker is an omni. Given the location of those hardpoints, you're going to be able to get more energy or missile hardpoints on a build than in stock builds by swapping pods. I think when we last broke down the hardpoints, we had 6 energy, or 2 energy/4 missile, various ballistic and 4 energy, etc. That puts those in line with mechs like the Hellbringer... which of course is one of those mechs that shouldn't be good based on hardpoints and pod space, and yet ended up tier 1 or 2 anyway.

Anyway... you're using an argument against one set of mechs that can easily be applied to ones you want just the same. And again, I'm not even arguing AGAINST those mechs at all. I'd just rather have something that's not competing for a niche that's already being done better by other mechs.

[Tarogato]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Black lanner is cancer too.

Why are you all recommending cancer mechs. 13 tons of podspace.

Because:

A: it was the most voted mech when Russ asked on Twitter "what clan mech do you want next?" ... yes, I actually tallied all the votes myself because I was curious, and yes, the Black Lanner had more votes than the Kodiak.

B: PGI will think it will be a nice alternative to the SCR at 55 tons.

C: Honestly, it *will* be a nice alternative the the SCR at 55 tons.

And actually, 11.5 tons, not 13 tons. You need to account for missing armour. But then again, it has 9 energy hardpoints, so it could be perfectly viable. It's a FAST mech with a small profile and juicy 55 tonner armour, with enough hardpoints to actually do useful things with its measly podspace. 11.5 tons isn't that bad when all you have to do is boat energy on a quick medium mech. Oh yeah, and it has ECM and the recently buffed MASC. That's ... pretty bloody nice.

Edited by Tarogato, 27 February 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[pbiggz]

ScarecrowES, on 27 February 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

Ok... but then Mad Cat MkII at 90 tons...
2x Ballistic
2x Missile
4x energy or

2x Ballistic
4x Missile
2x Energy

And those are the 2 versions with the most amount of hardpoints. Does this not, then, fit your clear definition of an "over-engined and under-gunned" mech? We're looking at a mech that is going to DEPEND on getting hardpoint inflation to make it viable, right? And who knows if we're going to get that.

Besides, Linebacker is an omni. Given the location of those hardpoints, you're going to be able to get more energy or missile hardpoints on a build than in stock builds by swapping pods. I think when we last broke down the hardpoints, we had 6 energy, or 2 energy/4 missile, various ballistic and 4 energy, etc. That puts those in line with mechs like the Hellbringer... which of course is one of those mechs that shouldn't be good based on hardpoints and pod space, and yet ended up tier 1 or 2 anyway.

Anyway... you're using an argument against one set of mechs that can easily be applied to ones you want just the same. And again, I'm not even arguing AGAINST those mechs at all. I'd just rather have something that's not competing for a niche that's already being done better by other mechs.

Battlemechs get hardpoint inflation. Omnis dont. Even without hardpoint inflation the MK II has enough tonnage to use even those few hardpoints. Double Ultra 10 Double PPC. Double Gauss double PPC, etc etc etc. All big weapon loadouts that don't use enormous amounts of hardpoints.

The linebacker will have no such luxuries.

Tarogato, on 27 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

Because:

A: it was the most voted mech when Russ asked on Twitter "what clan mech do you want next?" ... yes, I actually tallied all the votes myself because I was curious, and yes, the Black Lanner had more votes than the Kodiak.

B: PGI will think it will be a nice alternative to the SCR at 55 tons.

C: Honestly, it *will* be a nice alternative the the SCR at 55 tons.

And actually, 11.5 tons, not 13 tons. You need to account for missing armour. But then again, it has 9 energy hardpoints, so it could be perfectly viable. It's a FAST mech with a small profile and juicy 55 tonner armour, with enough hardpoints to actually do useful things with its measly podspace. 11.5 tons isn't that bad when all you have to do is boat energy on a quick medium mech. Oh yeah, and it has ECM and the recently buffed MASC. That's ... pretty bloody nice.

And thats all you'd be able to do with it.

2 loadouts?

Give me a huntsman instead.

[Imperius]

Tarogato, on 27 February 2016 - 01:20 PM, said:

Because:

A: it was the most voted mech when Russ asked on Twitter "what clan mech do you want next?" ... yes, I actually tallied all the votes myself because I was curious, and yes, the Black Lanner had more votes than the Kodiak.

B: PGI will think it will be a nice alternative to the SCR at 55 tons.

C: Honestly, it *will* be a nice alternative the the SCR at 55 tons.

And actually, 11.5 tons, not 13 tons. You need to account for missing armour. But then again, it has 9 energy hardpoints, so it could be perfectly viable. It's a FAST mech with a small profile and juicy 55 tonner armour, with enough hardpoints to actually do useful things with its measly podspace. 11.5 tons isn't that bad when all you have to do is boat energy on a quick medium mech. Oh yeah, and it has ECM and the recently buffed MASC. That's ... pretty bloody nice.

That's just a lie...

[Tarogato]

Imperius, on 27 February 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

That's just a lie...

wat.?

[CK16]

It wont be...

Super Nova...Only two viable variant of 4 total

Stone Rhino(Behemoth).....Only one variant even in this time frame the other 2 are SUPER out there and sue all tech not in game. (plus they are suppose to be super rare)

Marauder IIC....Same thing like 2 viable variant's...

Blood Asp wont be in till they pull the trigger on replacing tech for sure.

It comes down to what we need we dont have a good 20 tonner, 40 tonner and or a 70 tonner....We don't have a viable Assault mech they either take one extreme while lacking another. (Usually lacks, firepower, armor, or speed ect.)

Keep in Mind Omni's are mostly saved for 4 packages of 1 of each class no multiply heavies or assaults ect.

Battlemechs are sold for singles now most likely.

IIC's could be either of the two.

I would like the Madcat Mk.II however there are probably a few ahead of it in chronologically in the order of things. So till tehn we will probably get mediocre mechs for assaults I feel.

Edited by CK16, 27 February 2016 - 01:39 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

Battlemechs get hardpoint inflation. Omnis dont.

The Kodiak really didn't get any hardpoint inflation beyond what was necessary to distinguish a single version from the rest. Otherwise, all of them sit at table-top hardpoint listings. So expansive hardpoint inflation for clan-related battlemechs is not guaranteed.

As far as the listed configs you put out for the MkII, other clan assaults already in the game can run those configs, and run them better. Especially the Dire Wolf which has the benefit of 10 extra tons and a million extra hardpoints. And the Kodiak is right there too. Better hardpoint configs AND better locations, plus 10 extra tons to use them.

You know... it's ok to say we want the MkII for aesthetic reasons. I'm perfectly ok with that. It doesn't need any more reason to convince me it belongs in the catalog than "it looks iconic."

[Metus regem]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Black lanner is cancer too.

Why are you all recommending cancer mechs. 13 tons of podspace.

You know it's bad, when a Mech 15t lighter, has more pod space for the same speed.... Likely better hit boxes, and who's data sheets actually match up between the variants....

The Black Lanner doesn't even have the same fixed Endo and FF slots, they change between Prime/A/B/C and D, it's like looking at a bunch of Battle mechs that all have the same name.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Can't wait for the next redundant mech. SO good to hear no new tech. Such refreshing info way to keep the game from being stale PGI. Oh wait!

[SkaerKrow]

GRiPSViGiL, on 27 February 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

Can't wait for the next redundant mech. SO good to hear no new tech. Such refreshing info way to keep the game from being stale PGI. Oh wait!

They are adding a new game mode and tweaking two others. MWO isn't a fighting game, its freshness isn't just tied to new modules or Gundams.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I'm feeling that we need both another Clan OMNIMECH and Non-OMNI mech pack.

Not really familiar enough to recommend on the former. Another IIC pack for the latter, though, would be swell.

And that's all I really have to say on it. Good luck!

[GRiPSViGiL]

SkaerKrow, on 27 February 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

They are adding a new game mode and tweaking two others. MWO isn't a fighting game, its freshness isn't just tied to new modules or Gundams.

Tell that to PGI. Want to bet an over under we don't see this new game mode within 6 months? Loser deletes all their mechs?

[Hit the Deck]

Tarogato, how do you make that smurphy mock ups?

[Ace Selin]

Tarogato, on 27 February 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Just gonna call because I don't have better things to do.

It's going to be Clan Wave 4.

- Kingfisher
-Night Gyr
-Black Lanner
-Fire Falcon

ezpz.

I like these mechs though would also be fine with the Phantom (40 tonner) replacing the Black Lanner,

CK16, on 27 February 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

We don't have a viable Assault mech they either take one extreme while lacking another. (Usually lacks, firepower, armor, or speed ect.)

LOL. This is one of the funniest statements i have seen in a while. Viable for what. The Direwolf is a complete monster for me in Solo, Group and even CW game modes, raking in many 1000+ damage games. The Warhawk has some very solid builds for all 3 game types too and the Executioner played to its strengths is a really hard hitting mech that can then fade away too. Clans also have the upcoming Kodiak which should be a monster looking at its hard points possible loudouts and speed.

Edited by Ace Selin, 27 February 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[TheArisen]

pbiggz, on 27 February 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

You are spreading false information. Russ stated that while special consideration might be given to older mechs, he later amended that it does not preclude newer mechs from being added. He also stated his willingness to further change stock builds if they have future tech on them, so if anything, the blood asp and the MK II (which he specifically said was on the cusp) are more likely than ever.

Yes you want the Mk2, I know. Russ made his preferences clear. Considering other things is merely a possibility.

Edited by TheArisen, 27 February 2016 - 03:41 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

GRiPSViGiL, on 27 February 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

Tell that to PGI. Want to bet an over under we don't see this new game mode within 6 months? Loser deletes all their mechs?

I think Russ said Domination was scheduled to drop with the new map and community warfare beta phase 3 in April. I mean, someone can correct me if I'm misquoting, but that's less than 6 months.