26 replies to this topic

[MadCat02]

Clan ERL do to its Heat and Duration is extremely bad . Not only that but it is also limited to 2 Alpha strike limit so buffing it maybe a good idea .

Its worse than Inner Spere ERL . It can't compete with Clan-LPL (even for long range where 600 meters optimal range is enough most of the time ) . It does not have good stats where it matters the most and its limited to 2 Alpha strike . It runs too hot and Duration requires you to be exposed to enemy fire .

There are some mechs that should use Clan ERL like Shadwcat . However Clan-LPL makes it obsolete . Which puts Shadowcat in a wird spot where 2 LPL is too hot and 2 ERL is trash .

This is just one example . If you want range weapon on Clan mech you going to go for LPL , maybe ERPPC . Definitely not ERL which is why it needs some love .

Lets go ahead and compare Clan ERL to Inne Spere ERL .

Clan ERL Inner Sphere ERL

Alpha 2 < Alpha 3 Makes big Impact on game
Range 740 < Range 675+10% Similar
Duration 1.5 < Duration 1.25 Makes big Impact on game
Heat 10 < Heat 8 Makes big Impact on game

Damage 11 > Damage 9 On paper its better . In reality Duration makes it maybe worse!
Tons 4 > Tons 5 Better
Slots 2 > Slots 1 Whatever


There are some Clan Mechs that may want to use few lasers ( kinda like IS Raven playstyle ) So Clan ERL needs to work by itself .

Still its Clan-LPL is always better than Clan-ERL that has horrible duration and heat for what it does .


Bottom Line CLan-ERL should not have 10 heat. Make it 8 . Its still limited to 2 Alpha strike and people might use LPL for range anyway .

Edited by MadCat02, 27 February 2016 - 11:44 AM.

[Pjwned]

The burn duration should be 1.4 seconds.

[FupDup]

The heat is acceptable on it. Not great, but not bad. It doesn't really hold it back. Keep it where it is.

The gun's core weakness is purely duration.


With that being said, the damage per "beam duration second" is actually about the same as the unquirked IS ERLL:
IS ERLL: 9 damage / 1.25 seconds = 7.2 damage per beam second
Clam ERLL: 11 damage / 1.5 seconds = 7.33 damage per beam second

Thus, if you hold the Clam ERLL on-target for only 1.25 seconds, you still deal about as much damage as an IS ERLL that lacks duration quirks.

[Monkey Lover]

Really wish they just cut the dmg to 9 and the Duration to 1.2 or what ever so I don't have to keep seeing this over and over

Or hell make it 3 dmg with .5 second burn and most clanners will think it's been buffed

Edited by Monkey Lover, 27 February 2016 - 11:29 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

hopefully after April(Phaze3) they will have time to sit down and do another Full Tech Rebalance,
personally i would rather have All Clan Lasers lose 1damage, 1heat and 20%Duration,
Edit-Bold

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 27 February 2016 - 11:30 AM.

[MadCat02]

FupDup, on 27 February 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

The heat is acceptable on it. Not great, but not bad. It doesn't really hold it back. Keep it where it is.

The gun's core weakness is purely duration.


With that being said, the damage per "beam duration second" is actually about the same as the unquirked IS ERLL:
IS ERLL: 9 damage / 1.25 seconds = 7.2 damage per beam second
Clam ERLL: 11 damage / 1.5 seconds = 7.33 damage per beam second

Thus, if you hold the Clam ERLL on-target for only 1.25 seconds, you still deal about as much damage as an IS ERLL that lacks duration quirks.

I don't really have a problem with Clan Mediums . I would take them over Inner SPhere short end of the deal any day . The scaling in Damage per Ton is way off if you compare it to ERL vs Clan ERL .That heat increase is justified by 2 damage, much higher optimal range and higher duration ( they work much better for me at least )

Clan Small ERL lasers are more impactfull ( I would never use IS Small lasers in comparison ). No argument with Clan LPL really . ( Inner sphere 3 LPL is not much better , its heavier and range is very limited )

Edited by MadCat02, 27 February 2016 - 12:30 PM.

[El Bandito]

CERLL is still used frequently in comp and CW plays. I personally have good success with quad CERLL Hellbringer, since it can mount CERLL in the head due to requiring only 1 slot. The duration perhaps needs to be reduced to 1.4, but otherwise, CERLL does its job just fine--which is extreme range instant poking. If you want to play with different style, don't use the CERLL.

Also, Clan CLPL range needs to be toned down a bit, in return for a small duration reduction, to differentiate it from the CERLL. Can't imagine the range on CERLPL, once it comes out.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 February 2016 - 12:15 PM.

[Omaha]

wut did he say shadowcat is trash with 2 cerll? Shame on him!

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 27 February 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

Also, Clan CLPL range needs to be toned down a bit. Can't imagine the range on CERLPL, once it comes out.

Assuming PGI uses the unmodified TT range like they did for the normal Clan LPL, that makes the Clan LPL shoot out to 660 meters instead of 600.

...In exchange for 13 heat and taking up 3 slots. And since it has a lower to-hit buff than the LPL (-1 instead of -2), that means it might have a slightly longer beam duration to reflect that.

Edited by FupDup, 27 February 2016 - 12:18 PM.

[El Bandito]

FupDup, on 27 February 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

Assuming PGI uses the unmodified TT range like they did for the normal Clan LPL, that makes the Clan LPL shoot out to 660 meters instead of 600.

...In exchange for 13 heat and taking up 3 slots.

With the way PGI balances, I can only assume that its weight, size, and damage will remain the same. The rest are up to imagination.

[MadCat02]

El Bandito, on 27 February 2016 - 12:11 PM, said:

CERLL is still used frequently in comp and CW plays. I personally have good success with quad CERLL Hellbringer, since it can mount CERLL in the head due to requiring only 1 slot. The duration perhaps needs to be reduced to 1.4, but otherwise, CERLL does its job just fine--which is extreme range instant poking. If you want to play with different style, don't use the CERLL.

Also, Clan CLPL range needs to be toned down a bit, in return for a small duration reduction, to differentiate it from the CERLL. Can't imagine the range on CERLPL, once it comes out.

The fact is that Stalker can still bring 3+2 ERL to 800 Meter optimal range with less duration and still smoke anything that Clan has in in store in CW .

Well CW Maps are just that . Most of them are geared toward Longer range and CERL is very bad in Quick game where there are actually people playing .

[Y E O N N E]

I've always felt that it was strange that ERLL across the techs aren't identical in performance in lore. The ERLL was itself advanced tech when the SDF left, just like the LB-X. It makes sense that the Clans would figure out how to make it smaller and lighter, but also more powerful and longer-ranged at the same time? While failing to improve the much simpler LB-X at all over the IS version?

Weird.

Actually, I think ClanTech is all bass-ackwards. Packaging efficiency increased, and the creators of the lore unfortunately decided to over-emphasize it by buffing range and power instead of just range or just power.

[Sjorpha]

Clan ERLL is good, frequently used in CW and comp. No reason at all to buff it now that the IS ERLL has less range quirks.

[Ace Selin]

My 4 ERLL Hellbringer has no problems at all killing IS mechs at range.

I suspect what is really needed is for the Clan LPL to have its range nerfed 15-20%

[MauttyKoray]

FupDup, on 27 February 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

The heat is acceptable on it. Not great, but not bad. It doesn't really hold it back. Keep it where it is.

The gun's core weakness is purely duration.


With that being said, the damage per "beam duration second" is actually about the same as the unquirked IS ERLL:
IS ERLL: 9 damage / 1.25 seconds = 7.2 damage per beam second
Clam ERLL: 11 damage / 1.5 seconds = 7.33 damage per beam second

Thus, if you hold the Clam ERLL on-target for only 1.25 seconds, you still deal about as much damage as an IS ERLL that lacks duration quirks.

This, in fact the CERLL actually does slightly more damage over a 1 second period than the ERLL does, which means you're you're doing the same damage an IS laser does. The problem is that the entire 1.5 second duration will allow a mech to 'roll' the damage mitigating it or get into cover, wasting that extra damage over the IS ERLL and still generating all that heat.

Let's look at small duration reductions and what they'd do. (third decimal rounded)
1.50s Burn Time = 7.33 over 1 second
1.45s Burn Time = 7.59 over 1 second
1.40s Burn Time = 7.86 over 1 second

Its not 'huge' but that .05 to .1 second shaving of the would serve its purpose to better the damage output of the CERLL without overpowering the LPL as an option or making the IS ERLL inferior. Keep in mind the heat generated now builds in a 1.4 or 1.45 second period, meaning more heat in a smaller amount of time.

Ace Selin, on 27 February 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

My 4 ERLL Hellbringer has no problems at all killing IS mechs at range.

I suspect what is really needed is for the Clan LPL to have its range nerfed 15-20%

I could get behind a 10% range nerf, its pretty huge even compared to the IS LPL or the other Clan pulses.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 27 February 2016 - 10:06 PM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Quirks and lack of causal ratios is the problem.

That's my two cents for this topic.

[Sorbic]

Eh, I run it on a EBJ and the only thing I'd like to see changed is it's duration. Start by dropping it to 1.45 or 1.4 and see how it works out.

[Moldur]

FupDup, on 27 February 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

The heat is acceptable on it. Not great, but not bad. It doesn't really hold it back. Keep it where it is.

The gun's core weakness is purely duration.


With that being said, the damage per "beam duration second" is actually about the same as the unquirked IS ERLL:
IS ERLL: 9 damage / 1.25 seconds = 7.2 damage per beam second
Clam ERLL: 11 damage / 1.5 seconds = 7.33 damage per beam second

Thus, if you hold the Clam ERLL on-target for only 1.25 seconds, you still deal about as much damage as an IS ERLL that lacks duration quirks.

Yeah but why bother comparing it to an unquirked IS ERLL. I would argue that it is irrelevant to what the C-ERLL is competing with.

Edited by Moldur, 27 February 2016 - 10:44 PM.

[SkaerKrow]

cERLLs have been tremendously effective for me at outpoking IS mechs at range. Personally, I would never have imagined that they would be due any sort of buff, but that's just based on my own limited experience.

[Onimusha shin]

You're all going about this wrong. It's that all lasers except C-erLL are too short burning. With the exception of pulse lasers, I personally feel that all standard burn lasers should burn longer.