45 replies to this topic

[Xavier]

[Mad Strike]

?

[Davers]

Before I spend an hour and a half watching your video I would like to know why I would want to.

[ScarecrowES]

Davers, on 27 February 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Before I spend an hour and a half watching your video I would like to know why I would want to.

Well, the video encompasses frank discussions of the state of the game - from balance to design to features - from the perspective of two of the most influential units (and thus likely the most steady and involved component of the player base) in the community.

In the town hall briefings, you get to hear what PGI's official line is on the state of the game... the perspective of the folks running the show. In MercStar's round-table, you'd get to hear the other side of that coin... the perspective of the most heavily invested players.

So... whether or not you find value in the perspective of the influential player base is totally on you. If you do, perhaps check the video out.

@Xavier directly...

One of the talking points you've made, and something we in SWOL have actively tried to mitigate in our recruiting strategy, is the entry curve to the game and its impact on player retention. You suspect, and we do too, that players who land in units that they mesh with are probably more likely to stick around. Getting with a unit that will work with you reduces, or perhaps merely eases, the learning curve of such a difficult-to-enter game as MWO - and it makes what can often-times be a tedious gaming experience into a more frequently-fun one.

PGI has vilified, to a degree, large units... I think by-and-large because the larger units are perhaps more organized and cohesive, and thus are more effective at overcoming the limitations of unit organization and management, and bringing players to greater effect in-game. You argue, as we have on many occasions, that PGI should be encouraging players to find their ways into units, rather than vilifying them.

Perhaps the solution there - where we encourage new players to enter into organized and social aspects of the game while creating a larger breadth of unit play and a more level playing field across the general community - can be achieved, in part, by simply having new players immediately choose a faction to join after completing a required introduction/tutorial session when first activating the game. This will, at the very least, expose new players to a social circle within the faction (via faction chat), where they can ask questions and socialize. Perhaps then, even solo players could seek "sponsorship" with the various units out there and become prospects/cadets with those units (much akin to your beginnings in the "Mercenaries" sub-cat of Mechwarrior). This would give all players access to veteran players who can provide mentorship and guidance... while allowing them the freedom to remain unaffiliated and solo if they choose, or sign up to a unit they feel kinship with.

To my mind, this solves the greater problem of a lack of social interaction within the game, lets players find people who can make the game a better experience for them (through mentorship, friendship, whatever) , and would likely aid in player retention. We wouldn't be, as the game currently does, throwing new players into the deep end and hoping they'll choose to swim.

[Cappy]

Were the units vilified by pgi before or after they gave your clan preferential treatment?

[ScarecrowES]

Cappy, on 28 February 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Were the units vilified by pgi before or after they gave your clan preferential treatment?

I'm not sure what you mean by "preferential treatment."

But large units have largely always been vilified by PGI, largely because - as we experience often - they are vilified by smaller units and solos.

[Cappy]

When your entire clan was allowed to change factions with no penalty? I've never once seen PGI "vilify" units. I've seen pugs vilify them. And smaller units vilify them. Usually for good reason. Merc units shouldn't be dominating faction warfare by virtue of being the largest and thereby the most influential. But I'm assuming that's not a topic you ever bother discussing because that would mean change by -MS-.

[MischiefSC]

I've listened to all of them so far, it's been good conversations. It's a chance to listen to the people who are involved in the big units have a discussion about CW, what's going on and what they're doing and why.

So then you could actually get an idea about why the units in question do what they do from people who actually know, instead of making baseless and incorrect assumptions because you're mad that they beat you that one time in band camp.

[ScarecrowES]

Cappy, on 28 February 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

When your entire clan was allowed to change factions with no penalty? I've never once seen PGI "vilify" units. I've seen pugs vilify them. And smaller units vilify them. Usually for good reason. Merc units shouldn't be dominating faction warfare by virtue of being the largest and thereby the most influential. But I'm assuming that's not a topic you ever bother discussing because that would mean change by -MS-.

Erm... I'm confused. Or, maybe you are. Cuz, I think you're talking about a unit... Mercstar. Not a clan, which is an in-game faction. And SWOL has always been Clan Wolf. We're a loyalist unit. Though, Mercstar changes faction at its whim, and from what the community could see, letting Mercstar change faction, as it did with pretty much any unit that asked during that time period, was in PGIs best interest.

But if you've been around more than a few months, you'd have noted that PGI, and Russ especially, is against large units. Russ has gone on record that he'd like to force units to be very small.

As far as merc units dominating CW... I assume you mean that the faction behind which the largest concentration of mercs throw their weight will likely perform better. That's kinda built into the tone of CW, and probably will only get worse in phase 3 when factions can openly hire merc units outright. The factions with the biggest coffers will be dominating across the board, merc or no - and on the flip side, the faction that performs the best will likely receive the most reward as a result. So yeah. It's probably going to be a circular system.

But being that SWOL is a loyalist unit, we don't really have the advantage of going where the money is. We're Clan Wolf, thick or thin.

So if you're upset at the idea that units... and especially large units, can effect the outcome of CW so greatly, you'll likely want to sit CW out entirely once we get to phase 3. At that point, the only folks who will have any influence on CW will be the large loyalist units and the large merc units they hire. It sounds like loners aren't going to have much of a say in anything. Again, all by design.

And I think that what you'll see MS and SWOL state in the vid, especially from the SWOL side, is that we'd like to see MORE players join units. We'd like to see greater unit presense. We'd like to see more places for players to get together and play with like-minded individuals, and more places where casuals can come in, get mentorship, and have a good time. We don't want to see any players have to resort to going it alone. And we'd like to see a greater amount of participation and influence from the whole community.

We all just basically lack the tools or incentive from PGI to do this.

But yeah... I feel like the thread has just been hijacked by my tangent, and would like to get it back on point.

I think if you watch this vid... and I do think it's worth watching... you're going to get a pretty decent view inside the heads of the more influential units of the game. And I think you'll see perspectives that might surprise people - especially those who have a generally negative view of the larger units.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 28 February 2016 - 01:04 AM.

[MechWarrior4023212]

The phase 3 CW system is based more on loyalists having a say in who they attack or don't.

Everyone else is getting being called, and I presumed paid, to assist in those actions. Not matter them being solo or in a unit.

As usual solo groups can win or lose planets as they can now, so what is the issue saying you will have no influence? Seems they will either have more by voting or the same as now!

Edited by Ember Stormfield, 28 February 2016 - 01:04 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

Ember Stormfield, on 28 February 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

The phase 3 CW system is based more on loyalists having a say in who they attack or don't.

Everyone else is getting being called, and I presumed paid, to assist in those actions. Not matter them being solo or in a unit.

As usual solo groups can win or lose planets as they can now, so what is the issue saying you will have no influence? Seems they will either have more by voting or the same as now!

I think they've set it up so that only loyalist units like us (SWOL) get to pick and choose where we focus our efforts. What planets to attack, etc. And the loyalist units are the ones attracting the merc units and freelancers to fight for our faction by offering up our unit coffers as incentives. Beyond that, with capped planets offering real rewards to the units holding them, there's going to be greater incentive for players to join units... especially large units... or simply freelance for whichever faction is the most powerful at the time. I can't imagine there's much incentive in phase 3 for solo players to join a faction but NOT a unit... that scenario seems to offer the fewest rewards.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 28 February 2016 - 01:12 AM.

[MechWarrior4023212]

It is not units but the individuals that are loyalist that vote it the way I read it.

The mercs are all those under a contract.

It seems a bit too much power to have one person in charge of a unit to set the course of a war.

Also I think the c bills are assigned to a faction not a unit for holding a planet.

Edited by Ember Stormfield, 28 February 2016 - 02:22 AM.

[MechWarrior4023212]

https://youtu.be/w9fgD9LBknQ

[VorpalAnvil]

Cappy, on 28 February 2016 - 12:35 AM, said:

When your entire clan was allowed to change factions with no penalty? I've never once seen PGI "vilify" units. I've seen pugs vilify them. And smaller units vilify them. Usually for good reason. Merc units shouldn't be dominating faction warfare by virtue of being the largest and thereby the most influential. But I'm assuming that's not a topic you ever bother discussing because that would mean change by -MS-.

For somebody who has admitted to never watching any of these round table discussion you sure seem to think you know an awful lot about what the hell is contained in them. Take your anti-unit witch hunt to the T5 solo Q where it belongs with the rest of the teriibads who know everything about nothing.

Edited by VorpalAnvil, 28 February 2016 - 03:07 AM.

[Davers]

VorpalAnvil, on 28 February 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

For somebody who has admitted to never watching any of these round table discussion you sure seem to think you know an awful lot about what the hell is contained in them. Take your anti-unit witch hunt to the T5 solo Q where it belongs with the rest of the teriibads who know everything about nothing.

Many solo/small unit players DO feel marginalized in CW when independant units field larger armies than whole factions. Cappy does describe the current CW set-up and you claiming that he is wrong, ignorant, and a bad player simply because he isn't in a large unit is precisely why players would be opposed to plans, like Xavier's, to channel them into what seems to be arrogant and condescending player made and run organizations in order to enjoy the game.

And Cappy is 100% correct- MS did have millions of Cbill penalties waived so they could faction hop just to make CW work! If that doesn't state just how influential large units are, that PGI has to break their own rules so a whole game mode is playable, I don't know what would. Is it wrong for players to ask if units should be this influential?

Is belittling other players really the best recruitment tool for units?

ScarecrowES, on 27 February 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

Thank you very much for your detailed reply, I am sure I will enjoy watching it.

[DrxAbstract]

Instead of hosting your analytical discussion during the town hall (In case the times happen to overlap in the future), postpone, watch the town hall yourselves and then discuss what came out of it so half the opinions and comments shared are informed ones, because a lot of them ranged from mildly to way off what was actually said during the town hall and that's from getting your information second hand.

[VorpalAnvil]

Davers, on 28 February 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

Many solo/small unit players DO feel marginalized in CW when independant units field larger armies than whole factions. Cappy does describe the current CW set-up and you claiming that he is wrong, ignorant, and a bad player simply because he isn't in a large unit is precisely why players would be opposed to plans, like Xavier's, to channel them into what seems to be arrogant and condescending player made and run organizations in order to enjoy the game.

And Cappy is 100% correct- MS did have millions of Cbill penalties waived so they could faction hop just to make CW work! If that doesn't state just how influential large units are, that PGI has to break their own rules so a whole game mode is playable, I don't know what would. Is it wrong for players to ask if units should be this influential?

Is belittling other players really the best recruitment tool for units?



Thank you very much for your detailed reply, I am sure I will enjoy watching it.

MS changed factions to help the imbalance of IS to Clan units but you people have to find fault with everything they do, it;s literally that simple. My unit has 48 members about 25-30 of which are inactive and 5 are alt accounts. In the past few days My team has never fielded more than a 7 man and lost only a few matches. The majority of the losses came down to two things:

1- We got gen rushed and didn't defend properly
2-The pugs we picked up and tried to help refused to be a part of the team and instead did everything they could to lose

My small unit has no problem taking care of business on the field and we aren't exactly a comp team or something. The simple fact is you guys want to blame MS for the fact that you all suck. And when it isn't MS it'll be OP clans or laser vomit or some other fantasy that you've concocted because it's easier than facing the truth. Solos already have a dedicated queue, and if you think your faction is struggling do something to fix it. Ever heard of FRR?

TL;DR please uninstall for the benefit of this community

[Sader325]

DrxAbstract, on 28 February 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

Instead of hosting your analytical discussion during the town hall (In case the times happen to overlap in the future), postpone, watch the town hall yourselves and then discuss what came out of it so half the opinions and comments shared are informed ones, because a lot of them ranged from mildly to way off what was actually said during the town hall and that's from getting your information second hand.

All of our Roundtable discussions were planned more than a week in advance for Friday @ 9:30 PM. A surprise "town hall" is not going to change plans we already had set.

Not to mention, nothing of importance or relevance was mentioned in this particular town hall since our discussion is primary centered around CW.

[Davers]

VorpalAnvil, on 28 February 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

MS changed factions to help the imbalance of IS to Clan units but you people have to find fault with everything they do, it;s literally that simple. My unit has 48 members about 25-30 of which are inactive and 5 are alt accounts. In the past few days My team has never fielded more than a 7 man and lost only a few matches. The majority of the losses came down to two things:

1- We got gen rushed and didn't defend properly
2-The pugs we picked up and tried to help refused to be a part of the team and instead did everything they could to lose

My small unit has no problem taking care of business on the field and we aren't exactly a comp team or something. The simple fact is you guys want to blame MS for the fact that you all suck. And when it isn't MS it'll be OP clans or laser vomit or some other fantasy that you've concocted because it's easier than facing the truth. Solos already have a dedicated queue, and if you think your faction is struggling do something to fix it. Ever heard of FRR?

TL;DR please uninstall for the benefit of this community

I am not blaming MS or insulting MS. In fact on the few occasions I have spoken to Antonious Rex and other MS leadership I found them to be quite friendly. Is merely asking the question if one unit (regardless of who they are or what faction they play for) being so large and influential that their actions dictate whether or not CW is playable so wrong?

If my entire unit was to log in we would be over 1200 strong. So stop it with the 'you hate big units' talk. I actually agree with what Xavier said. I do feel that the natural progression for a game like this should be for solo players to transition to unit play. But I also think CW is so heavily unit biased (as it flat out states it is) that solo players should be excluded from it. And everyone knows this- small units get massive tonnage advantages over 12 man units in Group Queue to 'make it fair' but there is no such mechanism in CW.

Since your entire contribution to this thread has been personal attacks I feel no need to continue this threadcrapping discussion. Have a good day.

[DrxAbstract]

Sader325, on 28 February 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

All of our Roundtable discussions were planned more than a week in advance for Friday @ 9:30 PM. A surprise "town hall" is not going to change plans we already had set.

Not to mention, nothing of importance or relevance was mentioned in this particular town hall since our discussion is primary centered around CW.

And yet more than the first 30mins were spent discussing anything but CW... Including some Town Hall content (That wasnt much accurate), just saying. Take it or don't.