105 replies to this topic

[Trauglodyte]

Grab a fast mech that is roughly 55 tons or less, preferably one with JJs, and cram it full of SRMs. Spam said SRMs at everything red you see, rinse and repeat. Laugh you way to tier 1 because you just gamed the system.

The end.

[Shikiko Nakamura]

c0de4014, on 28 February 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

Pilot skill rating is crap, it ONLY goes up if your team wins... how does that judge an individuals skill level!? it is ridiculous...
i have a screenshot of a spreadsheet that shows in detail how ridiculous it is. the rating ONLY goes up if your TEAM wins a match...

https://gyazo.com/19...912ed91107d05c0

I have had my pilot skill improve when my team has lost .

[Trauglodyte]

Something to reiterate from another thread: you need a 151 match score, or higher, in a win to gain PSR or you need a 351 match score, or higher, in a loss to gain PSR (251 or higher to hold your PSR in a loss).

[-Vompo-]

Few games mean nothing when looking at elo or psr.
If you win more than you lose you are going up the ladder and once you reach your limit you start losing more than you win and that is when you start moving down.

If you don't carry your weight in the team you will lose more ---> you lose psr score
if you play well your team is more likely to win ---> your psr goes up

You don't win every game nor do you lose every game. It's all about averages.

[c0de4014]

Shikiko Nakamura, on 29 February 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

I have had my pilot skill improve when my team has lost .

That is EXTREMELY rare... the thing I believe most players are not grasping is what your team does should not effect an INDIVIDUALS rank... these ranks are supposed to rank the single pilot so they can be matched up in games accordingly... if the stat only increases and decreases on what your TEAM accomplishes how can this accurately display the individual "pilot skill"?
look at my chart in the Damage, kills and XP vs WIN corresponds with the pilot skill going up and down... columns and you will see how much the match win and loss is weighted. it should not be that significant.
This was just a small sample study of the hundreds of games i have documented and they are ALL that skewed toward win/loss. the chance on pilot skill going up in a loss was less than 1% and you had to do AMAZINGLY well ...

[Sandpit]

c0de4014, on 29 February 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

That is EXTREMELY rare... the thing I believe most players are not grasping is what your team does should not effect an INDIVIDUALS rank... these ranks are supposed to rank the single pilot so they can be matched up in games accordingly... if the stat only increases and decreases on what your TEAM accomplishes how can this accurately display the individual "pilot skill"?
look at my chart in the Damage, kills and XP vs WIN corresponds with the pilot skill going up and down... columns and you will see how much the match win and loss is weighted. it should not be that significant.
This was just a small sample study of the hundreds of games i have documented and they are ALL that skewed toward win/loss. the chance on pilot skill going up in a loss was less than 1% and you had to do AMAZINGLY well ...

it's not rare, it just requires a high enough match score. If it's rare to a specific player then that's just for them.

[MrMadguy]

Ted Wayz, on 29 February 2016 - 06:10 PM, said:

LOL.

Wins and loss are more the result of matchmaker than any one persons effort in pug play. And matchmaker does put you on streaks. I don't choose to play bad 27 consecutive games, but matchmaker can put me in 27 consecutive poorly matched matches where I lose (and it has).

And PSR judges every match as Skirmish. If our group caps their base in Assault a microsecond before the opposing team and no one fires a shot, our great skill will keep us level or go slightly up while their obvious mediocre skills mean they all go horribly down. Broken.

The true measure of a players skill is...wait for it...their skill. With slight modification the leader board method could be used to sort players by skill level and by chassis. It would allow for good new players to be with players of like skill quicker. And since it rates by chassis you can be tier 5 with your fun and funky mechs and experiment a bit while you are tier 1 with your try hards.

Yeah, that's what am I talking about. Broken MM uses wrongly measured rating to build unbalanced matches and uses results of this unbalanced matches to further adjust rating, which makes it even more wrongly measured. And this White Knights are ignoring any proofs, I provide. They even said, that IT'S MY FAULT - NOT MM'S FAULT, that game is unplayable for me, AGAIN.

Sandpit, on 29 February 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

That's quite apparent which is why many aren't taking you very seriously with what you're saying here.

It doesn't take hours to grind 3k exp. Less than 10 wins will net you 3k experience. If you're having those kinds of games another tier rating system isn't going to change that. The PSR ain't got nothing to do with that

See? I said it many times. There no good or bad players in MM-based game - it's up to MM to provide matches with/against players with proper skill level. L2P - isn't valid argument here. If MM fails to do it - then it's broken. But this guys need to treat my proofs, that clearly show, that I perform way too poorly and that skill level of players in my matches is inappropriate, as false ones. So what they do? Yeah. They just say "It's your fault - not MM's one". How can it be MY fault? I'm BAD player? Yes, I'm bad player - I don't refuse to admit it. Then if I'm bad, put me into Tier 4, where I belong to. No? Why not? That's the best proof, that I'm right and they are wrong: they say, that MM, that has put me almost into Tier 2, isn't BAD, it's I'm, who BAD, but they don't realize, that via saying it, they confirm, that my rating is WRONG, cuz Tier 2 and bad player - are two incompatible things. You just can't say, that YOU'RE VERY BAD PLAYER, but your TIER 2 rating is RIGHT - it's obvious logical contradiction. But White Knights don't need to be logical. Yeah? All they need - is to say, that I'm wrong and they're right, no matter what.

Edited by MrMadguy, 01 March 2016 - 01:03 AM.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Trauglodyte, on 29 February 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

Something to reiterate from another thread: you need a 151 match score, or higher, in a win to gain PSR or you need a 351 match score, or higher, in a loss to gain PSR (251 or higher to hold your PSR in a loss).

that is really damn low
why is the number not higher in the upper tiers? each tier should have its own numbers - this system either dumps you down to tier 5 or bumps up to tier 1 sooner or later, its quite hyperbolic

[MrMadguy]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 01 March 2016 - 01:13 AM, said:

that is really damn low
why is the number not higher in the upper tiers? each tier should have its own numbers - this system either dumps you down to tier 5 or bumps up to tier 1 sooner or later, its quite hyperbolic

Wrong numbers. Real ones are: 101 and more to rise on win, 401 and more to rise on loss. Average values can be even lower, cuz PSR is extremely biased towards increasing and your MS usually fluctuates around average one. I.e. you don't need 250 average MS in order to stabilize. Minimum possible value in worst case is around (400 + 0 * 2) / 2 = 200.

Edited by MrMadguy, 01 March 2016 - 01:31 AM.

[Ted Wayz]

Shikiko Nakamura, on 29 February 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

I have had my pilot skill improve when my team has lost .

About 40% of my losses I stay even after they lowered the bar. 10% of the time I get a slight increase. The other 50% I end up going down.

But this is the sad thing. In a game where the money maker is selling mechs there isn't a flexible ranking system to allow for experimentation. That is where a leader board type ranking system would be great. You could be leet in your everyday ride while playing around, with no fear for your PSR, in a mech that you like to pilot or that you just want to try out.

Solves many problems really.

[MrMadguy]

Ted Wayz, on 01 March 2016 - 01:59 AM, said:

About 40% of my losses I stay even after they lowered the bar. 10% of the time I get a slight increase. The other 50% I end up going down.

But this is the sad thing. In a game where the money maker is selling mechs there isn't a flexible ranking system to allow for experimentation. That is where a leader board type ranking system would be great. You could be leet in your everyday ride while playing around, with no fear for your PSR, in a mech that you like to pilot or that you just want to try out.

Solves many problems really.

And the worst thing: you advance MUCH faster, then you drop. Just two hours of good matches at Sunday evening - and you gain 10% of Tier 3. And you have to non-stop stomp-lose for 2 weeks to drop it back.

Edited by MrMadguy, 01 March 2016 - 02:15 AM.

[Intrepid]

MrMadguy, on 01 March 2016 - 12:55 AM, said:

You just can't say, that YOU'RE VERY BAD PLAYER, but your TIER 2 rating is RIGHT - it's obvious logical contradiction.

Actually yes they can because it is not a contradiction.

We understand that you utterly lack the requisite intelligence to comprehend the rather significant fact that notwithstanding its name, PSR is not a skill rating but rather an experience bar.

Therefore, you can indeed be as poor a player as you are and still have accumulated enough experience for Tier2 (or indeed even eventually Tier1). Hence why ELO is the preferred method of measurement.

Neither logic nor math is your strong suit. Wednesday cannot come soon enough!

[MrMadguy]

Intrepid, on 01 March 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

Actually yes they can because it is not a contradiction.

We understand that you utterly lack the requisite intelligence to comprehend the rather significant fact that notwithstanding its name, PSR is not a skill rating but rather an experience bar.

Therefore, you can indeed be as poor a player as you are and still have accumulated enough experience for Tier2 (or indeed even eventually Tier1). Hence why ELO is the preferred method of measurement.

Neither logic nor math is your strong suit. Wednesday cannot come soon enough!

No, cuz problems with MM actually started, when ELO was still in place. Implementation of PSR hasn't actually changed anything - I haven't noticed any difference. Any W/L based MM is flawed this way, simply cuz team performance =/= personal skill, especially in random teams. ELO is appropriate only for constant teams, where your personal skill - is always exact the same part of team's overall skill and your contribution towards victory is constant. It also appropriate only for static players pool, like chess tournament.

Edited by MrMadguy, 01 March 2016 - 07:26 AM.

[CreativeAnarchy]

c0de4014, on 29 February 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

That is EXTREMELY rare... the thing I believe most players are not grasping is what your team does should not effect an INDIVIDUALS rank... these ranks are supposed to rank the single pilot so they can be matched up in games accordingly... if the stat only increases and decreases on what your TEAM accomplishes how can this accurately display the individual "pilot skill"?
look at my chart in the Damage, kills and XP vs WIN corresponds with the pilot skill going up and down... columns and you will see how much the match win and loss is weighted. it should not be that significant.
This was just a small sample study of the hundreds of games i have documented and they are ALL that skewed toward win/loss. the chance on pilot skill going up in a loss was less than 1% and you had to do AMAZINGLY well ...

It isn't rare. About 10% of my losses end up with my PSR going up. I also had help in that I had a few assists, I get plenty of damage, and I'll pop a few very weakened targets that the rest of the team helped damage. These are matches where our team worked well together, just not good enough to win, and the match is close'ish with only a few of their mechs left, and not a total wipe where we only get 2 or 3 kills.

What is extremely rare is my score going up in a loss because of my skill. I'm a decent enough player, just not that good.

If my PSR went up in a loss, I had help from the team and the PSR should not reflect that.

Edited by CreativeAnarchy, 01 March 2016 - 07:26 AM.

[Doman Hugin]

Why do so many people state specific examples, and then say PSR is wrong.

That epic battle where you killed half the enemy team and did over 1000 damage, I'm not this good PSR is wrong.

We got stomped and i did less than 100 damage, I'm not useualy this bad PSR is wrong.

my PSR went up in a loss, I had help from the team and the PSR should not reflect that.

Try stating the average of all your matches, guess what the PSR does reflect that.

My alt 'what mech challenge' account has a negative win/loss ratio and is just about to hit teir 2 after just over 500 matches, where my main account has sat since the teir system was introduced.
The system is putting me where i belong despite the losses.

[Sandpit]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 01 March 2016 - 01:13 AM, said:

that is really damn low why is the number not higher in the upper tiers? each tier should have its own numbers - this system either dumps you down to tier 5 or bumps up to tier 1 sooner or later, its quite hyperbolic

because it's harder to get that score the more skilled your opponents are.

It's easy to pull 500+ damage in a low tier for higher tier players because it doesn't take much to pump a few alpha strikes into clueless players who stand perfectly still while exposing themselves to your fire.

[MrMadguy]

Sandpit, on 01 March 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

because it's harder to get that score the more skilled your opponents are.

It's easy to pull 500+ damage in a low tier for higher tier players because it doesn't take much to pump a few alpha strikes into clueless players who stand perfectly still while exposing themselves to your fire.

Yeah, most players think, that PSR - is XP bar, just because they think, that they will be able to pull exact the same performance, they have in Tier 5, strait to the top of Tier 1. Yeah, it's biased towards increasing, but it's not XP bar - you will stabilize sooner or later and you definitely won't like your 200 average match score matches, you'll have, when it will happen. And this players are sometime even trying to tell me, that I don't understand anything about matchmaking.

[Almond Brown]

Trauglodyte, on 29 February 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

Something to reiterate from another thread: you need a 151 match score, or higher, in a win to gain PSR or you need a 351 match score, or higher, in a loss to gain PSR (251 or higher to hold your PSR in a loss).

Which would make for a very interesting twist PGI could apply to the next weekend "Challenge".

For those Players, those "Tier Leet" we here so much from, who are Tier 1 a Match score >350 will be required to gain a point.

For those Players, those who are Tier 2 and 3 a Match score above >251 will be required to gain a point.

And finally for those Players, who are Tier 4 and 5, a Match score above >/= 100 will be required to gain a point.

Then we can see how the Point/Prize distribution curve looks after that "Challenge". If the Tier 1 "Leets" really wish to be challenged, so be it... Put up or ....

Edited by Almond Brown, 01 March 2016 - 10:13 AM.

[Sandpit]

MrMadguy, on 01 March 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

Yeah, most players think, that PSR - is XP bar, just because they think, that they will be able to pull exact the same performance, they have in Tier 5, strait to the top of Tier 1. Yeah, it's biased towards increasing, but it's not XP bar - you will stabilize sooner or later and you definitely won't like your 200 average match score matches, you'll have, when it will happen. And this players are sometime even trying to tell me, that I don't understand anything about matchmaking.

I agree that a good many players have fail to grasp the concept of how the PSR actually works.

It's not an xp bar, but I do think it's weighted too heavily on W/L (which apparently PGI agrees as Russ stated in the townhall that they're looking into adjusting that) and should give more weight to the individual match score than it does now

Almond Brown, on 01 March 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

Which would make for a very interesting twist PGI could apply to the next weekend "Challenge".

For those Players, those "Tier Leet" we here so much from, who are Tier 1 a Match score >350 will be required to gain a point.

For those Players, those who are Tier 2 and 3 a Match score above >251 will be required to gain a point.

And finally for those Players, who are Tier 4 and 5, a Match score above >/= 100 will be required to gain a point.

Then we can see how the Point/Prize distribution curve looks after that "Challenge". If the Tier 1 "Leets" really wish to be challenged, so be it... Put up or ....

Hmmm...
that kind of sparked an idea.

It would be interesting if PGI would run a Tier challenge for a weekend. A leaderboard event of some kind. For that weekend restrict the game play in quickplay to your tier and your tier only. (Obviously wouldn't work in group queue so solo only for this one) Offer some cool prizes and they'd get enough participation to populate the servers I think just like Tuk does

[SplashDown]

himself, on 28 February 2016 - 09:32 PM, said:

The current implementation of PSR is lazy.

Not only is it NOT a good gauge for how much skill a player has, it only serves to segregate the new players and the ultra baddies from the old players and the tryhards. It needs to be removed and replace with a system that doesn't pretend to be keeping new players safe.

New Idea:

PXI [pik-see] (Pilot Experience Index): Works exactly like PSR, but doesn't pretend to be a skill rating. It serves as a decent indicator that a player has learned the basic mechanics of the game and can apply them with some modicum of efficiency.

Instead of locking tiers out, use PXI to balance the teams.

Current:

[5-3][4-2][3-1] Locked Tier MM

You're segregating your already limited player base.

Suggested:

Use PXI to ensure that both teams have a near-equal amount of newer players and experienced players to avoid total steam rolls.

Congratulations, now you also aren't screwing over people bringing in their friends by pitting them against tryhard groups every time they want to play with you, because they're PSR5 and you're PSR2.
You're welcome.

sounds to me like you want to do some seal clubbing