141 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

I cannot take credit for the video, however, it proves a point very well, and shows why you should try to explain to anyone running LRMs why they are deficient.

[JC Daxion]

Yet it is so much fun killing people with so called deficient mechs and equipment making for a Glorious victory...




Maybe i should make a video about how to have fun playing a video game.. LRM's are not comp... But if people want to run them, they can and should.. If you wan't comp play, join a unit.. that's all anyone really needs to know.

Teaching people the right way to use them and in what combo's, with direct fire weapons, they can do quite well. Especially for those that don't have the best twitch skills.. Or better yet a good brawler, with LRM support..

Edited by JC Daxion, 29 February 2016 - 10:03 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Gyrok, on 29 February 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

I cannot take credit for the video, however, it proves a point very well, and shows why you should try to explain to anyone running LRMs why they are deficient.

So everyone has to run the same setup.. got it, COD here we come!

[Pjwned]

Even though the video does acknowledge the value of indirect suppression fire from LRMs, it's still underestimated how much value that actually brings, and the superiority of direct fire is shown by watching a bunch of sheep marching into a firing line repeatedly while pretty much ignoring any benefit from friendly LRMs because muh gauss metavomit trumps everything. The testing grounds are also a terrible way of comparing direct fire vs indirect fire and there was no real reason to include that for the first 10 minutes.

I agree that LRMs tend to not be that good but that's not a great video to show why that is.

The video does bring up a good point about LRM mechs not being in the front lines with other mechs to spread damage, but that has more to do with pilot playstyle than it does with LRMs, and the point is overshadowed by "I can dump a 50 pt alpha into 1 location and LRMs can't so LRMs are ****" and that's dumb.

Edited by Pjwned, 29 February 2016 - 05:36 PM.

[TKSax]

JC Daxion, on 29 February 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Maybe i should make a video about how to have fun playing a video game.. LRM's are not comp... But if people want to run them, they can and should.. If you wan't comp play, join a unit.. that's all anyone really needs to know.

And who says Mundi and others who are playing competitively are not having fun playing MWO? I swear that is the stupidiset argument. Your Trying to hard so you can't be having fun. Winning is Fun , pushing yourself to be the best is fun for a lot of people. Just like "Derping" around and goofing of in the game is fun for others.
Mundi is not even saying do not run them, he is just showing why Direct Fire is more effective than LRMS.

Edited by TKSax, 29 February 2016 - 10:34 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

I love seeing the dogpile of LRMs hitting the carcass of a destroyed mech While the front line direct fire mechs are already working on the next targets. LRMs just aren't fun nor efficient enough to bother with. Very dependent on the right circumstance which is rare playing any competent players.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 29 February 2016 - 10:34 AM.

[Jman5]

What is with this community getting in such a huff over LRMs? You don't see this level of passion when it comes to SRMs, or LBX, or UACs, or anything else.

Let's list pros and cons of SRMs

Pros:
Good damage/ton
More heat efficient than energy

Cons:
Spread
short range
Can't help the team if they are trading
travel time
ammo dependent
Ghost heat beyond 4


Weapons all have pros and cons. If you play to their strength and adjust your playstyle to minimize their weakness, they can be powerful tools. That's true for SRMs, that's true for LRMs.

Honestly, if we're going to talk about armor sharing I have more problems with ER LL and ER PPC builds hanging way in the back than LRM builds. At least the LRM builds will always do full damage when their missiles connect. Those derps hanging 1,300 meters back with ER LL are less effective than gnats.

[Pjwned]

GRiPSViGiL, on 29 February 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

I love seeing the dogpile of LRMs hitting the carcass of a destroyed mech While the front line direct fire mechs are already working on the next targets.

That's more due to bad pilots that sit way too far back and depend entirely on their teammates for locks.

Quote

LRMs just aren't fun nor efficient enough to bother with. Very dependent on the right circumstance which is rare playing any competent players.

That may be but LRMs are better in the right hands than most people give them credit for.

[TKSax]

Jman5, on 29 February 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Honestly, if we're going to talk about armor sharing I have more problems with ER LL and ER PPC builds hanging way in the back than LRM builds. At least the LRM builds will always do full damage when their missiles connect. Those derps hanging 1,300 meters back with ER LL are less effective than gnats.

Oh yea no disagreement there.

[Figure 11]

Somebody got stalked by a light and pounded into the ground by LRMs before he could get a kill then?

[Wolfways]

LRM's have needed some buffs for years, but newbies/noobs

[LordNothing]

i like to bring the lerms really close to the enemy.

the missiles have less travel time, so there is less time to dodge.
if you can see your target and keep it locked your missiles are guaranteed to hit.
you can see what your missiles are doing, indirect fire renders you blind to lerm blocking geometry
you can dumbfire against shut down mechs or stationary unlockable mechs.
you can get locks on ecm mechs if you have narc or tag.

i kind of think direct fire also should get some buffs, like missile velocity and spread reduction. but you have to have some face time to get those.

[Otto Cannon]

If you have direct line of sight then direct fire weapons will always be better.

If you have no line of sight then direct fire weapons are utterly useless.

LRMs are completely situational, and their main strength is the ability to drop annoying spread damage to support any of your team at a moment's notice, and controlling enemy positioning by forcing them near high cover. The indirect fire aspect is the unique selling point, and it's not to protect the lurm support mech itself but to save the skin of any teammate who needs instant support.

Obviously LRMs aren't useful for comp teams, but for the majority of matches that happen in the game a good lurm chucker can make a big difference. It's just finding that good one that's the trick...

[Templar Dane]

Pjwned, on 29 February 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

That's more due to bad pilots that sit way too far back and depend entirely on their teammates for locks.



That may be but LRMs are better in the right hands than most people give them credit for.

LRMS are dogshit. There's what like 2 maps in regular and one single map where they can do anything in CW.

Even if the enemy team has zero ecm and nobody has ams, most maps are chock full of cover from lrms. I mostly play CW now and these guys that bring a dropdeck full of LRMs is like having a permanently disconnected player on your team.

Boreal is the only map in cw that has any real potential for them, and that's only if a few conditions are met.

1. The enemy team needs to be light on ecm
2. The enemy team needs to be light on ams
3. You have to have a spotter/dedicated narc light
4. Your team has to have more than one lrm boat or #3 makes it so you have two wasted slots in your team instead of one

I've seen LRMs do really well on boreal but the team was made for it. They had a lot of lrms, some on dedicated boats, and most/all of the other mechs on the team went to the trouble of fitting some LRMs along with their other weapons. They had at least two narcing lights the entire match.

I've seen that one or maybe twice at most. Every other map has either lots of cover, or is nothing BUT cover from LRMS(grim portico).

So 6 maps in CW.........

Boreal Vault - Can do well with LRMS if your team is set up for it
Emerald Taiga - Plenty of cover inside gates. If the fight were outside the gates you're winning/losing pretty hard anyway
Grim Portico - hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha no
Hellbore Springs - Same deal as Emerald Taiga
Sulfurous Rift - Here we go again, lots of cover inside where the fights happen
Vitric Forge - Inside the gates there is absolute LRM cover except for a few totally exposed places nobody would ever go

So with CW maps, the only time/place LRMs matter on 5/6 of the maps, you're already either winning so hard it doesn't matter what you brought or your losing so hard it doesn't matter what you brought.

One map. One single map. And even then you have to have enough LRMs to completely destroy an enemy mech in the duration of a UAV or it's kind of wasted. And that small window cost a team mate 40k cbills.

Continue sitting in the back. firing LRMs that do nothing except sand blast the dirt off of enemy mechs, while your team is losing armor to 'hold locks', and relying on other people to spend cbills on UAVs, while taking no damage yourself.......right up until your team gets roflstomped because they didn't have another guy on the front lines and you fight them 1v12.

[Gyrok]

Jman5, on 29 February 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

What is with this community getting in such a huff over LRMs? You don't see this level of passion when it comes to SRMs, or LBX, or UACs, or anything else.

Let's list pros and cons of SRMs

Pros:
Good damage/ton
More heat efficient than energy

Cons:
Spread
short range
Can't help the team if they are trading
travel time
ammo dependent
Ghost heat beyond 4


Weapons all have pros and cons. If you play to their strength and adjust your playstyle to minimize their weakness, they can be powerful tools. That's true for SRMs, that's true for LRMs.

Honestly, if we're going to talk about armor sharing I have more problems with ER LL and ER PPC builds hanging way in the back than LRM builds. At least the LRM builds will always do full damage when their missiles connect. Those derps hanging 1,300 meters back with ER LL are less effective than gnats.

To be fair...if the entire team is built for range...the firing line is at 600-800m and they are still sharing armor, and doing full damage.

Unless playing an extreme range poking scenario, no one has any business shooting at something 1300m out anyway...

[Wrathful Scythe]

The only thing I love about LRMs is the loathing I get if my enemy plays right in to my hands while I happen to be in my LRM Awesome.

LRMs aren't good but they can be pretty cheap if you've got one good spotter on your side.

[Templar Dane]

Otto Cannon, on 29 February 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

If you have direct line of sight then direct fire weapons will always be better.

If you have no line of sight then direct fire weapons are utterly useless.

LRMs are completely situational, and their main strength is the ability to drop annoying spread damage to support any of your team at a moment's notice, and controlling enemy positioning by forcing them near high cover. The indirect fire aspect is the unique selling point, and it's not to protect the lurm support mech itself but to save the skin of any teammate who needs instant support.

Obviously LRMs aren't useful for comp teams, but for the majority of matches that happen in the game a good lurm chucker can make a big difference. It's just finding that good one that's the trick...

For LRMs to do that someone has lock them first. If you can see the enemy, you could always........shoot them with something that isn't LRMs. At least that way you'll do damage to them before they go into cover.

[SkaerKrow]

So...no one runs LRMs in high level/competitive play, but high level/competitive players can't stop trying to tell everyone else why they shouldn't run LRMs. Right.

[JC Daxion]

TKSax, on 29 February 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

And who says Mundi and others who are playing competitively are not having fun playing MWO? I swear that is the stupidiset argument. Your Trying to hard so you can't be having fun. Winning is Fun , pushing yourself to be the best is fun for a lot of people. Just like "Derping" around and goofing of in the game is fun for others.
Mundi is not even saying do not run them, he is just showing why Direct Fire is more effective than LRMS.

I missed the part where i said anything about them not having fun.. I will tell you one thing.. Listening to people preach about why LRM's are deficient in game is NOT fun, which in the OP's post he says.. Tell everyone you meet.. Ya, fun times..



We all know LRM's spread damage, i also know, that many people don't have good aim, so hitting, verse missing is always better. I also know that those players that play in the lower levels, can do well with them. But i'm not going to debate this. I just know, telling people how to run their mechs in a match is Not fun, outside of perhaps a little friendly advice for obvious things.. like shooting out of range, or under range, or other obvious new player mistakes..

Edited by JC Daxion, 29 February 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[TKSax]

JC Daxion, on 29 February 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

I missed the part where i said anything about them not having fun.. I will tell you one thing.. Listening to people preach about why LRM's are deficient in game is NOT fun, which in the OP's post he says.. Tell everyone you meet.. Ya, fun times..

It seemed like you implied that by responding with "Maybe i should make a video about how to have fun playing a video game.." Which is what I hear a lot of people say when talking about competitive players,

JC Daxion, on 29 February 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

We all know LRM's spread damage, i also know, that many people don't have good aim, so hitting, verse missing is always better. I also know that those players that play in the lower levels, can do well with them. But i'm not going to debate this. I just know, telling people how to run their mechs in a match is Not fun, outside of perhaps a little friendly advice for obvious things.. like shooting out of range, or under range, or other obvious new player mistakes..

I agree with all of this, in fact I look at this Video as something help new players, and maybe people who do not what you just stated. I generally do not give more than what you mentioned in game. If someone ask's e about a particular build and my reasons why I run I will give them that, same if they ask about their build.

Edited by TKSax, 29 February 2016 - 11:53 AM.