118 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 February 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

Don't waste your breath.

Teddy is arguing purely because I said it. I could say the sky is blue and water is wet, and little Teddy would feel completed to argue because he had some butthurt (redacted)envy complex.

I just ignore him, as do most of the forums.

I think I have made the same argument since the mech came out. This is the third time I have used the quote from the readout.

Sorry if I don't believe that just because you say something that it is true. Sorry if actually backing up what I say with troublesome facts and data bothers some people. But I am pretty sure it says more about them than me.

[Rinkata Prime]

Ok, let's rifleman be 'fragile'. No armor quirks, long range orientation, ok.
But you can't avoid that it has not enough firepower for a long range and not enough sturdiness in close combat.
PGI force us to have equal mechs in MWO. It means that you could fight 1 on 1 with every mech of every weight class - Jenner vs Diashi, Griffin vs Timber and so on. Some mechs are ok with that, but some are not, so that's why all quirks are in game.
So, I am asking PGI to put Rifleman in a row, not even more. Rifleman now is very underpowered.
And Lazy Killer is worst of their kind.

Edited by Rinkata Kimiku, 29 February 2016 - 06:33 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

JagdFlanker, on 29 February 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

i wrote 'implied' which isn't the same as 'said'. if you don't see the same implication i do and presumably Bishop does that's fine

depends on your definition of 'fragile'. to me less armour than average = more fragile.

Okay, so do you think the Jager is more fragile than the Rifleman? Based upon what you have said then it should be.

[Trauglodyte]

Do you think that it is fragile, due to the way that you play and/or have it geared? Or, do you simply think that it is too fragile in comparison to other IS 60 ton mechs?

[TKG]

Rinkata Kimiku, on 29 February 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

TKG
Rifleman can't be a good ballistic firesupport. It maybe works in Tiers 4 or 5 or maybe 3, but not in my Tier 2.
Rifleman has no weight for ballistic weapons.
Ok, let's see what we have for long range:
4AC2, 2AC5, 2UAC5 (without antijam quirks) and one gauss.
All of them are just a scrap without such mad quirks like those on DRG-1N or HBK-GI.

If PGI invent Battlevalue system instead of this stupid tiers - yes, many mechs, and Rifleman for sure, would be usefull. But now you have poor mech and bunch of Top Dogs and Timbers against.
Rifleman must be buffed and buffed hard.

Does it really? My 'True Grit' variant would say otherwise but then how man y pilots have the guile to hold off a group of assaults successfully in a support rifleman by making them think theres more than one mech holding the position?

JagdFlanker, on 29 February 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

to be fair, my 3025 tech readout does imply the 'fragile' argument. in the Jag write-up as for the reasons why the Jag was developed:
The Rifleman was prone to overheating, it did not carry enough ammunition, and it was lightly armored in comparison with other 'Mechs of the same tonnage

I know someone got to this already but lightly armored does not equal fragile it is a different and easily fixed problem that relies on the pilot's modifications to their ride. Every Rifleman I have (3) has been up-armored... I've shifted stuff around internally and went endosteel right off the bat if it wasn't already there. What your forgetting though in your TRO example is that Project Phoenix fixed almost all of the problems you highlighted and it's not impossible to partially Project phoenix-upgrade your riflemen. Yes it ain't cheap but then thats the simple fix for the issues. For the record, I do not expect everyone will put the time in to make a hot rod model of their Rifleman like I did to make 'True Grit' my preferred variant.

FLG 01, on 29 February 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

However, the main problem is simply that players pick fights in their own weight class. It's an overweight medium, and people tried treating it as a true heavy with dreadfully predictable results, giving it a bad name.

That is very true at 60 tons it's only 5 tons heavier than the heaviest medium but it's not really built to do what other 60 tonners do so you actually have to be a bit of a chess player when using a rifleman. Thats why I mock the hero version with the LBX...it's literally a joke with no punchline.

[Ted Wayz]

TKG, on 29 February 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

That is very true at 60 tons it's only 5 tons heavier than the heaviest medium but it's not really built to do what other 60 tonners do so you actually have to be a bit of a chess player when using a rifleman. Thats why I mock the hero version with the LBX...it's literally a joke with no punchline.

Found it good at finishing fights, not picking them if you know what I mean.

[Ted Wayz]

Trauglodyte, on 29 February 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

Do you think that it is fragile, due to the way that you play and/or have it geared? Or, do you simply think that it is too fragile in comparison to other IS 60 ton mechs?

Think it is too fragile period. Not since the Black Knight was first released, and before it was rapidly fixed, has a mech felt so vulnerable.

Finished 68th in the leader board event fighting the mech the whole way. Yeah I could have good matches, but they should have been so much better. And more than a few times the match ended for me on a single alpha on the ST. This is a heavy that almost has to carry a XL. I don't know of a medium, due to armor, hitboxes, or quirks, that goes down as easy.

Just frustrating when your match ended early and you realize that the only mistake you made was piloting this mech. No margin for error.

[Trauglodyte]

60 tons has always been in a weird spot. Not built to be fast like the 55 tonners or even as fast as the Dragon, not built to take a beating like the other heavies, not enough tonnage to pack a mean punch. So, you have to massage it into what it is - you don't start the fight, you finish it (like you said, Ted). Think of yourself as a slightly bloated Medium whose job it is to tag along with the really heavy Heavies/Assaults and add your punch to theirs. It is how I do so well in my Enforcer. It is decently fast but not fast enough. It has decent punch but not decent enough. It has decent mobility but not decent enough. Put me on the hip of a King Crab, Atlas, etc. and I'm pretty scary. The Rifleman should play very similarly, if not exactly the same but at a longer distance.

I could be wrong, though.

[Kyynele]

Ted Wayz, on 29 February 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

Just frustrating when your match ended early and you realize that the only mistake you made was piloting this mech. No margin for error.

If you do get alphaed on a ST in a 60 ton mech and die really early in a match, the reality is that you probably did some other mistake than picking that certain mech. By my experience, with a big XL engine the Rifleman is maneuverable enough to perform pretty reliably. Huge PPC/Gauss alphas aren't really the dominant meta at the moment, and laser alphas aren't hard to roll.

I placed 2nd in the tournament with the 3C variant (and 6th with the hero), playing solo queue only. So far I've played 83 matches in the 3C, and it's dealt an average of exactly 500 dmg per match (41500 total in those matches), which is better than my Ebon Jaguars, for example. If it would have a genuine tendency to die early surprise deaths often, I'm pretty sure it would show in the averages.

I wouldn't mind getting some extra durability buffs for it of course, but if you're doing really badly in a fast-ish mech that has all it's hardpoints almost ridiculously high, you're probably not playing it to it's strengths.

[Otto Cannon]

I don't expect toughness from a Rifleman, but I did hope for better light AC and LL quirks to make it worth using in comparison to other mechs. The LK should have been UAC5 instead of having utterly worthless LBX quirks that won't be used by anyone sane.

[Bishop Steiner]

Otto Cannon, on 29 February 2016 - 09:09 PM, said:

I don't expect toughness from a Rifleman, but I did hope for better light AC and LL quirks to make it worth using in comparison to other mechs. The LK should have been UAC5 instead of having utterly worthless LBX quirks that won't be used by anyone sane.

Unfortunately, adding UAC quirks to a canon LB-X Carey doesn't fit.

Because it was used for cqb arena combat, and because solaris7 mechs see a lot more customization than front line units, it's the only one I think legitimately makes sense too structure buff. But I'd also give it near CN9-D level LB-X buffs

[Bishop Steiner]

Kyynele, on 29 February 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

if you're doing really badly in a fast-ish mech that has all it's hardpoints almost ridiculously high, you're probably not playing it to it's strengths.

Ayup.

But it's easier to blame the mech, than to modify play style.

[TKG]

Ted Wayz, on 29 February 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

Found it good at finishing fights, not picking them if you know what I mean.

Oh I understand what you mean that's why I like it, the epitome of "fight smarter not harder" really.

[Soultraxx]

For sure the Rifleman is no Marauder, but its not too bad.

It took me a couple of games to realise that it needs to be played like a medium - dont let your opponent pick your fights, stay mobile and dont be the tip etc.

I'll not say no to buffs if they're offered, but there are other mechs in greater need of help.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

bad pilot is bad

Rifleman is a good mech, in some regards better than a Jagermech - but you are using it wrong

ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO GET SHOT - its a poker, glass cannon, getting in the shots from a distance and keeping on the move

if you're using it as a brawler or otherwise in clear view situations and not utilizing its maneuverability - you are using the mech wrong and there is no surprise you do badly in it - however, even if used wrong, its not as bad as you attempt to describe - even a wrongly used Rifleman can do a ton of damage and even take some

edit after re-reading the OP : and if you think the Legend Killer is bad... you should just stick to playing a Dire Wolf for the rest of your life and never ever go into anything else

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 01 March 2016 - 12:04 AM.

[Otto Cannon]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 February 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

Unfortunately, adding UAC quirks to a canon LB-X Carey doesn't fit.

Because it was used for cqb arena combat, and because solaris7 mechs see a lot more customization than front line units, it's the only one I think legitimately makes sense too structure buff. But I'd also give it near CN9-D level LB-X buffs

To be honest the best result would be if they just made LBX worth using on any mech without needing extreme quirks. Seems like there's no chance of that though.

[Bishop Steiner]

Otto Cannon, on 01 March 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

To be honest the best result would be if they just made LBX worth using on any mech without needing extreme quirks. Seems like there's no chance of that though.

I'd agree. Just working with what we have, ya know?

[Thunderbird Anthares]

just a thought here... i dont understand why the general dislike of shotguns

personally i like them, they might not offer the pinpoint shot value beyond say 400m, but they make up for it with crit potential and lower weight... definitely a better alternative to standard AC10 on shorter ranges

the only weapons i really consider bad are PPCs, and the only weapons i consider broken are lasers

that being said, i still want more flavours for IS - more sizes of Ultra and LBX, the missing Streak sizes (i mean, how hard is it to duct tape 3 launchers together) and Light and Heavy variants of Gauss rifles with their explosive properties working correctly, not all the time

LBX 10's ?
they're fine, though personally i'd like 2 extra pellets per shot

[Ted Wayz]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 01 March 2016 - 12:03 AM, said:

bad pilot is bad

Rifleman is a good mech, in some regards better than a Jagermech - but you are using it wrong

ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO GET SHOT - its a poker, glass cannon, getting in the shots from a distance and keeping on the move

if you're using it as a brawler or otherwise in clear view situations and not utilizing its maneuverability - you are using the mech wrong and there is no surprise you do badly in it - however, even if used wrong, its not as bad as you attempt to describe - even a wrongly used Rifleman can do a ton of damage and even take some

edit after re-reading the OP : and if you think the Legend Killer is bad... you should just stick to playing a Dire Wolf for the rest of your life and never ever go into anything else

Hate to break it to you but mechs do get shot. And when they do you should be able to recover from one mistake. This mech can have one mistake end its match.

I love the assumption that just because someone thinks the mech is bad they somehow do not know how to pilot or pilot the mech. My results show otherwise, I posted my Rifleman stats in a previous thread, let's see yours.

[Jaqir]

2xAC10 and radarderp, go flanking or play medium range support for your brawlers. Get the hang of the role and Rifledude is suddenly a pretty good 'mech, even if it breaks from someone staring at it for too long. Just avoid the attention and you're good.