128 replies to this topic

[L3mming2]

whats the point of heaving a kodiak, that can bring a (at the moment no gost heat) laser alpha of 74 and 33 DHS if u will limit the alpha's to 30-40..

and by extention what will be the point of taking a assault mech (whit the exeption of daka boats)
when they lose there main advantage, firepower...

IMO the core of this problem is energy weapons ==> light weight, high damage, and easy to use together... they enable smaller mechs to still bring 50+ alphas..

then again there are assaults with only energy hard points, so if u limit the amount of damage of energy weapons in a single A strike then they are screwd..

So i dont know a general way to limit the alpha strikes, and not obsolete most assaults..

a idea might be to make the alpha limit class dependand;

light, mediums, and heavys get 1 set of alpha rules, the assaults get a 2nd set of less restrictive alpha rules. (this will have the aditional benefit of making the heavys less of the go to class like they are now..)

what do you think?

edit; (i should have included this from the start.. sr)

noting is set in stone, but from what i could make of it in town hall,

-it will replace GH
-it will be a global system (so not on a amound of weapons of a sertain category) but on alpha damage (alphas over a sartain nbr will be penelized)
-this penalty will most likely be in the form of a increased CD (he said something along the lines of now you will be able to do that big alpha every 10s instead of every 4)

- the alpha penalty cap will most likely be in between 30-40 damage range (its meant to stop the 50+ alphas from being fired constantly)

all of the above is a (IMO prety accurate) summary of what he explaind the system to be, the system it self still has to be tested, and he made his explenation of it deliberatly vage so it might differ significant from the afformentiond..

still 1 thing is sertain it will be based on alpha damage size

Edited by L3mming2, 29 February 2016 - 09:41 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Until we know what the new system is its impossible to comment.

Your system just makes everyone play assaults

[El Bandito]

Is there a concrete post detailing PGI's exact plans for taking care of the big alpha issue, or are you just preemptively speculating?

Also, it is not that big of a deal to limit alphas to 40 points per click. It just means Assaults will shoot two 40 point alphas within fraction of a second, while the lighter mechs will shoot once. Comp play will not be affected, and pug play needs longer TTK anyway. Assaults are also benefiting from the March patch, where pebbles will no longer trip them.

Might shake up the meta to include more dakka.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 February 2016 - 01:23 AM.

[GreenHell]

I think we need a HUGE FUCKLOAD of MORE INFO before we make ANY kind of assumptions or try to have a discussion about how it would work. There is literally so much that we don't know about how it will work, that we can't even begin to try talking about the new system.

[Davegt27]

after listening to the town hall Assaults will be pointless

[LordNothing]

i usually avoid alphas like the plague in an assault, especially a brawler. i noticed with my bansh 3m i would essentially fire in double taps. il tap the 3 lpl group which doesnt have gh, will tap the 5 med pulse that dont have gh, and then i will either twist and hold for cool off session. il do that one more time, and by the time im using the chain fire groups i use when im redlining the other mech is mostly cut up and about to die.

alpha strikes are and should be a really thermally inefficient crutch used in only the most desperate of circumstances or the most impatient of pilots. being punchy should be punished.

[L3mming2]

GreenHell, on 28 February 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

I think we need a HUGE FUCKLOAD of MORE INFO before we make ANY kind of assumptions or try to have a discussion about how it would work. There is literally so much that we don't know about how it will work, that we can't even begin to try talking about the new system.

i'v listend to the last 2 town halls, and the very idea of limiting the size of the alpha by making the cooldown dependend on the alpha size ... that is in any way shape or form bad for assaults (with the exeption of dakka boats)

yes it might be thru, maybe the system can be circumvented (like gost heat) but if a assault can circumvent it with its fire power anny mech can, and the system douse not do what PGI intends it to do..

[GreenHell]

This is the problem with telling people that "something is comming" and saying absolutely NOTHING about HOW IT WILL WORK. Now PGI has a bunch of anxious players that are worried about how this new system will affect the game. We all want to have information about what changes will be made so that we can make informed decisions, but we cannot because PGI hasn't released any info at all. We really need PGI to just tell us what their damned idea is so that we can at the very least have a discussion about it.

Edited by GreenHell, 28 February 2016 - 02:01 AM.

[L3mming2]

El Bandito, on 28 February 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

Is there a concrete post detailing PGI's exact plans for taking care of the big alpha issue, or are you just preemptively speculating?

Also, it is not that big of a deal to limit alphas to 40 points per click. It just means Assaults will shoot two 40 point alphas within fraction of a second, while the lighter mechs will shoot once. Comp play will not be affected, and pug play needs longer TTK anyway. Assaults are also benefiting from the March patch, where pebbles will no longer trip them.

Might shake up the meta to include more dakka.

the last town hall's russ reveald they are working on a new system to replase GH and that its +90% done and almost ready for internal testing, in a nut shell he said that large alphas will be pennelised by longer CD. he did not tell what a "large alpha" would be in this system, but made it prety clear it was to stop the 50+ alphas from flying around constantly (he said that the idea would be to only alpha 2 or 3 times in a entire mach..)

he used the numbers between 30-40 (and said they where purly to explain the idea, but if u are trying to stop 50 damage alphas it probably will indead be lower then 50...)

so my take awai from this, barfing out large amounts of burst damage will lower you DPS (and if waiting a fraction of a second to fire your second weapon groop avoids all this then whats the point of the system in the first place)

this will mainly hurt assaults as there biggest pro is the tonage to bring loads of weapons

[El Bandito]

L3mming2, on 28 February 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

(and if waiting a fraction of a second to fire your second weapon groop avoids all this then whats the point of the system in the first place)

It gives the other mech time to twist and spread the damage from the second weapon group, thus increasing TTK. Which is welcome.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 February 2016 - 02:09 AM.

[GreenHell]

L3mming2, on 28 February 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

-snip-

But he never actually said it would be a cooldown. In fact he didn't give any REAL information at all. All he basically said was:

"I have an idea to stop high point alphas in our game, and it's 90% through the 'idea' phase."

And that's really all he said about it. He even said not to take the numbers he used as any indication at all of how it would work. He just gave a generic non-answer to NGNG's questions about his 'heat scale reveal'.

[L3mming2]

El Bandito, on 28 February 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

It gives the other mech time to twist and spread the damage from the second weapon group, thus increasing TTK. Which is welcome.

if they realy want to increase ttk ther is a easy solution for that,

double armor again (yep simple is better)

(dont forget to raise ammo per t if u do do )

[Y E O N N E]

Davegt27, on 28 February 2016 - 01:23 AM, said:

after listening to the town hall Assaults will be pointless

Wrong.

The Assault will be able to soak damage even better than they ever have, since damage will take longer to deal and even the slow twisting of an Atlas will be effective.

[L3mming2]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 February 2016 - 02:16 AM, said:

Wrong.

The Assault will be able to soak damage even better than they ever have, since damage will take longer to deal and even the slow twisting of an Atlas will be effective.

and how will a dire keep his croshairs on a fast moving target now wile he has to spread his alpha over 3 times?

[Y E O N N E]

L3mming2, on 28 February 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

and how will a dire keep his croshairs on a fast moving target now wile he has to spread his alpha over 3 times?

Use Gauss and don't be alone.

Sorry if your team is a nuissance and leaves you behind.

[L3mming2]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 February 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

Use Gauss and don't be alone.

Sorry if your team is a nuissance and leaves you behind.

i am not saying that it cant be overcome, but it will hit assaults hard, and shift the ballance of the game even more in favor of heavys..

[Y E O N N E]

L3mming2, on 28 February 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

i am not saying that it cant be overcome, but it will hit assaults hard, and shift the ballance of the game even more in favor of heavys..

Acknowledging that I know jack-all about what they have in mind...

It could shift the balance more toward PPFLD, which is naturally harder on bigger, slower targets that can't react to it in time. But, armor could become more important than it currently is. Right now, armor saves from one, maybe two mistakes. With damage dealt out over longer intervals, it's going to be more useful. Which is why PPFLD could reign again; the meta is maximizing damage-out-over-damage-in and it's unlikely you'll be able to do that if it takes you several seconds to burn off all of your lasers.

But, again, I have no idea what the specifics for the new system are, so I can't really make any reasonably accurate assessments.

[Jaqir]

Powers forbid having different weapons for different situations and/or capability for sustained fire over Alphas that wreck everything in a few seconds, eh?

Apologies for the snarkyness, but.. Yeah. Does it REALLY all have to (continue to) be all about excessive burst damage? With less of that there might actually be room for other balance related improvements in the long run.

Edited by Jaqir, 28 February 2016 - 03:04 AM.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

after spending the weekend playing Mechwarrior Living Legends - they should just take a whole lot of pages from that

[Yosharian]

What's this new system?