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What To Do About The Wasp And Stinger


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#1 Malleus011

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 08:50 AM

What shall we do about the Wasp and Stinger?

These 'mechs are staples of the Battletech universe, with the Locust, the most common 'mechs in the Inner Sphere by a long shot. These two 'mechs are cheap, are still in production, were made in *huge* numbers, and have lots and lots of spare parts. It would be a shame not to include them in MWO (and by extension HBS' upcoming title) but these little guys are going to face some struggles. How do we make them viable, if we can?

A 20 ton humanoid light will really struggle to be effective in MWO. They well be small, smaller than a Commando, but will both lack hard points and tonnage to use them. They will at least be fast and jump capable. Should there be role warfare, the little guys do make effective scouts more mobile (though slower) than the Locust due to jump jets, for a tiny investment in tonnage, so they've got that going for them. Offensively, they're weak tea.

The bigger issue is this - it will take PGI about the same effort to concept, model, rig, and skin the Wasp (and Stinger) as it will a 75 ton heavy or 100 ton assault that will absolutely sell better at any cash price. Buyers are already hesitating on the 20$/40$+15$ price point that the Phenix Hawk package has been issued at. They *will* have a problem paying 20$ for three Wasps or Stingers, much less 15$ for a 20 ton hero. But PGI has to recoup their development cost somewhere. How can they manage this?

My first thought is this: Make the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie share as much geometry as possible, so the costs for making all three is closer to making one chassis with two special geometry variants. This may hit a snag with the Valkyrie needing to be slightly larger in size. It may also underwhelm buyers because the Wasp and Stinger might only have, say, different heads (but perhaps the same cockpit to save costs) making them otherwise very similar. But it might allow PGI to develop (and sell) three light 'mech chassis for slightly more than the cost of one.

That would, in theory, allow them to sell all three as a single 'Collector pack' at something close to the current collector pack prices. A buyer could reasonably object to 20$ for three 20 ton 'mechs, what about 20$ for nine? (40$ for nine plus three (S) variants?)

Other options might be 3 Valkyries for 20$, (collectors 40$), with 3 Stingers a 15$ add on, 3 Wasps as a 15$ add-on, with (S) Collectors of each another 15$ each.

Perhaps they could even skip the heroes (for now) in order to keep the development costs down? (and issue heroes the 'old way' for the MC/ton cost?)

Note: If we had an R&R system, the Wasp/Stinger (and Locust) could be given major discounts, to make them the most efficient 'mechs to run on a pure cost basis (good for grinding C-Bills when you are poor). But of course, we don't, so that's moot, unless we get one someday for CW.


TLDR: It costs PGI as much to model the Wasp or Stinger as a bigger, more valuable 'mech. How can they recoup that cost and make the pack worth it?

Edited by Malleus011, 03 March 2016 - 08:52 AM.


#2 Sandpit

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:44 AM

Not sure why you think that. The spider and cheetah do quite well, especially in the right hands

#3 Malleus011

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:47 AM

I think they can find a place in the MWO game, what I'm trying to figure out is how to make them attractive for PGI to create and sell, considering the average player will only see the lightest light 'mech with a few E and M(or B ) hard points. If PGI tries to sell three Wasps for 20$, I think they're gonna have a bad time.

Edited by Malleus011, 03 March 2016 - 09:48 AM.


#4 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 09:52 AM

View PostSandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

Not sure why you think that. The spider and cheetah do quite well, especially in the right hands


There is a very big difference between 20 and 30 tons. They would need completely bonkers hardpoint inflation to get the required 4+ E to be somewhat viable, because they come with like 1 medium laser, lol.

#5 Sandpit

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:08 AM

View PostMalleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

I think they can find a place in the MWO game, what I'm trying to figure out is how to make them attractive for PGI to create and sell, considering the average player will only see the lightest light 'mech with a few E and M(or B ) hard points. If PGI tries to sell three Wasps for 20$, I think they're gonna have a bad time.

I don't see why
The urbie did just fine on sales

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 03 March 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:


There is a very big difference between 20 and 30 tons. They would need completely bonkers hardpoint inflation to get the required 4+ E to be somewhat viable, because they come with like 1 medium laser, lol.

no they wouldn't
the locust does just fine

You're also completely discounting the viability of 20 ton mechs in CW drop decks

You're also discounting a 20 ton mech with JJs

#6 Malleus011

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:24 AM

I assumed the Urbie did well because it's kind of an iconic light 'mech because it's so amazingly slow.

*I* like the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie a lot, but I don't know how popular those chassis are with the general MWO population.

#7 sycocys

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:29 AM

If they aren't the LAMs its not worth investing the time to make them, we already have enough mechs that play exactly the same as the next one down the list.

#8 mechsae

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:38 AM

My initial thought is as AI driven mechs for a co-op, PvE mode.
Making a light, slightly slow, back stabber work in PvP is rather tricky. They'd need to quirk the hell out of the mech, or make it fill in some role.

I still favor the AI used mechs idea for them.

#9 Sandpit

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:39 AM

View PostMalleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

I assumed the Urbie did well because it's kind of an iconic light 'mech because it's so amazingly slow.

*I* like the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie a lot, but I don't know how popular those chassis are with the general MWO population.

They're some of the most iconic lights out there

View Postsycocys, on 03 March 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

If they aren't the LAMs its not worth investing the time to make them, we already have enough mechs that play exactly the same as the next one down the list.

well if that's the case there's plenty of mechs and we don't need anymore ;)

#10 Metus regem

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:41 AM

Well since the Stinger, Wasp, Valkryie and Phoenix Hawk all share common parts, hell even the Crusader to a point has parts in common with those four, it should be a worth wile investment on PGI's part to go about making them...

As for sales of the Stinger and Wasp, do them as a double pack, so you get 3 Stingers and 3 Wasps for $20, a double pack of heros (one of each) for $15, and 4 mechs reinforcement (2 of each) for $15, that should be a little more patiable for pricing on them.

#11 3xnihilo

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 10:58 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 03 March 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

Well since the Stinger, Wasp, Valkryie and Phoenix Hawk all share common parts, hell even the Crusader to a point has parts in common with those four, it should be a worth wile investment on PGI's part to go about making them...

As for sales of the Stinger and Wasp, do them as a double pack, so you get 3 Stingers and 3 Wasps for $20, a double pack of heros (one of each) for $15, and 4 mechs reinforcement (2 of each) for $15, that should be a little more patiable for pricing on them.


Yeah this ^^

I would be tempted to buy into that. I might buy three wasps for $20 if it included the special variant. But, $15 for a 20 ton hero would be way overpriced compared to the light Heroes on sale in the gift store. It would be unusual to have to pay more than the regular price on a preorder, usually they represent a discount, like the $15 Kodiak hero which is priced well below other assault heroes.

#12 sycocys

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 11:02 AM

View PostSandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

well if that's the case there's plenty of mechs and we don't need anymore Posted Image

Unfortunately quite true.

#13 Macksheen

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 11:30 AM

A Wasp AND Stinger pack might be cool.

They will need to muck w/ the heat sinks a bit, since lower engine caps will hurt them for heat sinks. Hardpoint inflation is part of it, but so would be ammo and cooldown quirks in the realm of "crazytown". 100% cooldown on energy weapons, 100% extra ammo for MGs, 100% ROF for MGs ... AMS ROF and ammo quirks ... nutso stuff.

You can put a 175 XL, FF, Endo, 3 HS and have about 6.5 tons left over. A jump jet gives you 6 tons of weapons to work with, and you can strip some armor maybe. 3MPL, 1 LL + MGs ... strip armor for an ERPPC or LPL ...

It could work, but again only with crazy-town kind of quirks.

Also, Urbie is 30 tons ...

#14 Malleus011

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 11:56 AM

So, I'm guessing if the packs were priced reasonably, nobody would have a problem with the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie taking loads of parts from the Phoenix Hawk?

Even if the only visual difference between a Wasp and Stinger was, say, the head and weapon mounts?

#15 Sandpit

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 11:59 AM

View Postsycocys, on 03 March 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Unfortunately quite true.

it's another example of PGI not thinking long-term. Eventually they're going to hit a saturation point where new mechs aren't worth it. A lot of veteran players have already hit that point because realistically once you have a mech or two in each weight class you like, what's the point other than if you just want them for personal reasons.

View PostMalleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

So, I'm guessing if the packs were priced reasonably, nobody would have a problem with the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie taking loads of parts from the Phoenix Hawk?

Even if the only visual difference between a Wasp and Stinger was, say, the head and weapon mounts?

nah, that's really what they are and were anyhow. They were just smaller versions of that mech

#16 stealthraccoon

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:00 PM

Give me more bug mechs, and I will eat five times my weight per match!

I say they offer a pack: Wasp, Stinger and Valkyrie (and throw in the Hornet with "ultimate collectors pack"!!!

Edited by stealthraccoon, 03 March 2016 - 12:50 PM.


#17 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:04 PM

From a salesman-point-of-view I'd suggest to PGI to sell both 'Mechs together in one pack.

#18 LT. HARDCASE

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:07 PM

Double or triple pack is the only logical way to sell them.

View PostSandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

I don't see why
The urbie did just fine on sales

Urbie sold solely on trollishly nostalgic reasons, we all know that. I doubt many bought it because they actually believed that it'd bring something useful to the game.

#19 0bsidion

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:08 PM

I'm sure we'll be getting the Stinger and/or Wasp soon if not next. I'm about 90% sure it'll happen next month for at least one of them. If I was a betting man I'd even put money on it.

Of course there's also a chance the next one will be the Crusader. It's pretty high on the wish list for at least a few people around here, and they've been pretty vocal about it.

#20 cazidin

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Posted 03 March 2016 - 12:09 PM

Why do people want 20 ton mechs? They may go a bit faster than a 30 or 35 ton mech but have significantly fewer hardpoints or less tonnage to work with, if hardpoints are abundant. I can appreciate Nostalgia, of course, but who would pay $20-40 for a set of very light mechs?





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