54 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Sandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

I don't see why
The urbie did just fine on sales


no they wouldn't
the locust does just fine

You're also completely discounting the viability of 20 ton mechs in CW drop decks

You're also discounting a 20 ton mech with JJs

Can't remember what the Urbie sold for now, but even the most die hard fan is surely going to baulk at $85 for 8 wasps and stingers

[Otto Cannon]

Realistically, I can perhaps see them being sold as a double basic pack for $30 with a full price $15 hero for each. Maybe a collector pack with both at $50.

Sadly I don't really see PGI going cheaper than that, because they know collectors will buy them anyway- but the small discount would sway buyers who otherwise might refuse to buy on principle if they were full price.

[Anyone00]

Maybe 20 tonners and mechs like the SDR-5V can be given quirks that increase capture rates (I'm not typing 15% more like 2x-6x) if the game ever gets to the point where capping is viable to some extent in all modes.
*shrug*

[Malleus011]

Maybe a Stinger, made from re-used Phoenix Hawk bits and a new head?



Perhaps a Wasp, made from re-scaled Phoenix Hawk bits?

A Valkyrie might look very similar, with LRM tubes in the LT.

[0bsidion]

Malleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

Maybe a Stinger, made from re-used Phoenix Hawk bits and a new head?



Perhaps a Wasp, made from re-scaled Phoenix Hawk bits?

A Valkyrie might look very similar, with LRM tubes in the LT.

If PGI tried that they'd never hear the end of it. I sincerely hope they put real effort into those models instead of kitbashing the PHX and trying to pass it off as a Wasp and Stinger. I wouldn't pay for it.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Why does this community focus on the damn mechs as content when the game is shallow and stale? Hmmmm let's add more redundant mechs.

We need more of an actual gamer community instead of all these pixel collectors.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 03 March 2016 - 01:02 PM.

[Malleus011]

GRiPSViGiL, on 03 March 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Why does this community focus on the damn mechs as content when the game is shallow and stale? Hmmmm let's add more redundant mechs.

We need more of an actual gamer community instead of all these pixel collectors.

No argument, but 'mech packs is currently PGI's only revenue stream. Russ has said they're not paying much attention to the Wasp and Stinger, likely because they're aware that 20 tonners don't sell well on their own and they might risk not making their investment back on such small machines. Thus the suggestions for bundling together, part re-use and other ideas to make the Wasp and Stinger cheaper.

0bsidion, on 03 March 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

If PGI tried that they'd never hear the end of it. I sincerely hope they put real effort into those models instead of kitbashing the PHX and trying to pass it off as a Wasp and Stinger. I wouldn't pay for it.

OK, but will you pay 20$ for three Wasps AND 20$ for three Stingers? If you'd rather not, then they're going to have to economize somewhere or simply not make the chassis (and I'd really like to see them). If not re-uses, what can they do to make the 20 tonners viable for 'mech sales?

[jss78]

Malleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

OK, but will you pay 20$ for three Wasps AND 20$ for three Stingers? If you'd rather not, then they're going to have to economize somewhere or simply not make the chassis (and I'd really like to see them). If not re-uses, what can they do to make the 20 tonners viable for 'mech sales?

But if all they really had to do is a different head for the Stinger vs. Wasp, then they could theoretically give out both the Stinger and the Wasp for $20. If the design work is essentially the same as doing a single chassis. Maybe "two for the price of one!" would make enough people buy them. Although I think the sad reality is that they have no place in the game as there's no scouting to speak of. They'll never compete as striker lights.

But I think they'd be fun to run. Theorycrafting on the LCT-1E, looks like you could run XL170 / 6JJ / 4xML. Essentially a flying Locust with decent armament.

From a lore perspective there's obviously no mech that needs to be in the game more than these two.

Edited by jss78, 03 March 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[wanderer]

They're useful insofar as cases where weight matters. They'd be the jump-capable equivalents of the "throwaway" Locusts.

Honestly, putting them together into one pack would make sense. The original Unseens are virtually identical save for the heads. And much like Urbies, they'd be relatively cheap to kit out and master.

[FupDup]

Sandpit, on 03 March 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

Not sure why you think that. The spider and cheetah do quite well, especially in the right hands

1. Both of those are 30 tons, which gives them a large advantage over 20-tonners with other factors being equal.

2. The Spider isn't effective at all, actually.

3. The Cheetah's hardpoints (and Clan tech) are way better than those of the Wasp/Stinger.

Also, for people who are arguing that "oh, it's useful for dropdecks guys," using tiny lights + big assaults is less effective than using midsize mediums and midsize heavies.

Edited by FupDup, 03 March 2016 - 02:01 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Just accept that such mechs would in all likelihood be redundant and that such mechs, like many others are going to be primarily of nostalgia value. And so what. Let the market decide. If folks want to buy a crappy mech (not saying that it necessarily would be) then let em. Redundancy should not be a reason to prevent them from being introduced. As pointed out above half the mediums (I would say half the mechs) are redundant. If I can get over the "redundancy hurdle" to make 107 mechs (so far) each feel unique then I can do it with a few (or a lot) more.

[C E Dwyer]

wanderer, on 03 March 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

They're useful insofar as cases where weight matters. They'd be the jump-capable equivalents of the "throwaway" Locusts.

Honestly, putting them together into one pack would make sense. The original Unseens are virtually identical save for the heads. And much like Urbies, they'd be relatively cheap to kit out and master.

Heads and right arms are the only real difference between the Wasp and the Stinger, bar different textures,

The Phoenix hawk is essentially a larger Wasp, with big jump jet pods and a stinger right arm, in making the Phoenix hawk, most of the work for both the 20 toners is complete as far as looks go, scaling, hard points and motion would be a different matter I guess

[C E Dwyer]

Bud Crue, on 03 March 2016 - 02:03 PM, said:

Just accept that such mechs would in all likelihood be redundant and that such mechs, like many others are going to be primarily of nostalgia value. And so what. Let the market decide. If folks want to buy a crappy mech (not saying that it necessarily would be) then let em. Redundancy should not be a reason to prevent them from being introduced. As pointed out above half the mediums (I would say half the mechs) are redundant. If I can get over the "redundancy hurdle" to make 107 mechs (so far) each feel unique then I can do it with a few (or a lot) more.

If P.G.I make them, not only would there be income here, they would be asests PGI can add to the H.B.S deal, if its not a job lot and done on a per mech basis

[Revis Volek]

LT. HARDCASE, on 03 March 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

Double or triple pack is the only logical way to sell them.


Urbie sold solely on trollishly nostalgic reasons, we all know that. I doubt many bought it because they actually believed that it'd bring something useful to the game.

I bought it because it brought 360 twist into the game....and because it was an urbie.


So to say the urbie brought nothing NEW is a lie.

[0bsidion]

Malleus011, on 03 March 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

No argument, but 'mech packs is currently PGI's only revenue stream. Russ has said they're not paying much attention to the Wasp and Stinger, likely because they're aware that 20 tonners don't sell well on their own and they might risk not making their investment back on such small machines. Thus the suggestions for bundling together, part re-use and other ideas to make the Wasp and Stinger cheaper.



OK, but will you pay 20$ for three Wasps AND 20$ for three Stingers? If you'd rather not, then they're going to have to economize somewhere or simply not make the chassis (and I'd really like to see them). If not re-uses, what can they do to make the 20 tonners viable for 'mech sales?

Given that they will probably be spaced a month a part, plus there'll be early adopter rewards? I wouldn't rule it out. The premium time + modules + cockpit items + cbills and all that are worth the $20. Hell, the 30 days by itself is sold for $12. After that, how much are you really paying for each mech? $1?

[Mole]

I love light 'mechs. I've mastered every light mech chassis currently in this game. I need more. I would be happy to see any new light 'mechs. By the way, PGI, I'm still waiting on that Flea that you promised me.

[Donnybrook]

I also wonder whether Light Mech jump jets should weigh less. At 0.5 tons, each adds up to a lot of weight.

[wanderer]

The problem with jump jets is that Paul basically chucked the entire system and randomly injected his own- including utterly ignoring anything construction related.

[Malleus011]

0bsidion, on 03 March 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Given that they will probably be spaced a month a part, plus there'll be early adopter rewards? I wouldn't rule it out. The premium time + modules + cockpit items + cbills and all that are worth the $20. Hell, the 30 days by itself is sold for $12. After that, how much are you really paying for each mech? $1?

Good perspective. If it's the common belief of the community, then I'm all in favor of PGI spending the full amount of time and resources building out the Wasp, Stinger, and Valkyrie.

If it isn't, though, I'm totally OK with them re-using some assets to get these little guys in the game.

[Johnny Z]

wanderer, on 03 March 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

They're useful insofar as cases where weight matters. They'd be the jump-capable equivalents of the "throwaway" Locusts.

Honestly, putting them together into one pack would make sense. The original Unseens are virtually identical save for the heads. And much like Urbies, they'd be relatively cheap to kit out and master.

Ya why not, the originals were identical save the head. Do this with the new Stinger and Wasp also, then throw in a hero and its a good deal. If someone doesn't have a hero light yet its even a better deal. Maybe some minor differences between the 3.

I don't know any details about the Valkyrie tonnage or appearance.

About viability, they will be tiny and slim and in MechWarrior that means hard to hit.. They should be worth their tonnage at the very least.

Edited by Johnny Z, 03 March 2016 - 02:55 PM.