218 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Aresye, on 04 March 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

If it gives such a huge advantage, would you care to link some streams showing which competitive players use macros on a regular basis? It's allowed by PGI, so it wouldn't be considered naming and shaming.

I look forward to your extensive list.

I never said it gave a "huge advantage" - most of them give very little of an edge and some are just used for fun builds or folks with disabilities. I don't have a problem with the macros themselves - my gripe is with people who claim "macros don't do anything at all that you can't do on your own," which is a silly statement and then usually proven wrong 2 posts later when somebody describes what their latest macro does.

If you want to use them, fine - I really don't care and I don't think for a moment they give enough of an edge to really matter; it's like turning down your graphics settings, or buying a top end computer and gaming mouse to play the game - all minor changes that can't replace real skill, practice, and teamwork. But at least be HONEST about why you're using them and don't pretend everyone is stupid enough to believe that they "don't do anything for the user, but we create and use them all the time anyway just because... uh, yeah." That half-arsed defense of macros makes as much sense as saying that a top-end gaming mouse "offers no real advantage over a basic 2 button + keyboard combination because it's just buttons that you can press already on your own." It's transparent BS.

So, yeah - use them if you want because it doesn't really matter, but at least show some intellectual honesty when saying WHY you're using them - they give you a small edge for certain builds under certain conditions, and there's nothing wrong with that, anymore than buying a top-end computer, getting a good mouse, getting a good headset for VoIP, etc.

Edited by oldradagast, 05 March 2016 - 07:33 AM.

[GreenHell]

Honesty? On the interwebz?!?

Ok
I use em because I love the sound of DAKKA

[Nightmare1]

Mead, on 04 March 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

LOL

"Does anyone remember when we used to be MechWarriors?", he typed from his comfy chair into his glorified game console.

While paraphrasing Star Trek Next Generation.

I actually don't have a glorified gaming console though, now that I think about it. Just a toaster with a keyboard.

[totgeboren]

cdlord, on 03 March 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

True, you can lob AC2s without a macro. A Macro makes it far easier though than button mashing constantly. It simplifies a specific in-game mechanic.

I honestly don't get this? If you group say 6 AC2 into firegroup 1, then press and hold firegroup 1 you will fire as fast as possible, generating maximum heat too, with maximum pinpoint damage possible given the weapons.

What a macro does is allow you to do (a much more fun) setup of chain-firing the 6 AC2s with a total cycle time equal to the cycle time of a single AC2. You have the exact same DPS as if all were in the same firegroup, you generate the same amount of HPS, but you spread that damage more. What you get is a much more satisfying DAKKADAKKA-sound, and a bit better suppressive ability (at the cost of spreading that damage out more).

When everyone is complaining about how much better frontloaded damage is over slow dps, complaining about people using macros to make their ACs less frontloaded seems rather strange.

At the very least, built in to the game each firegroup should have basic click settings like now, but also a toggle setting, and chain fire should definitely give you the ability to set your own cycle time. Having it at 0.5 seconds for all weapons is really unfair, since for example two AC/20s will maximize their DPS/HPS ratio with that setting, while say 6 AC2s chainfiring will suffer a massive decrease in DPS with the same setting.

It should be up to the player how they want to use their weapons. This 0.5 chain fire delay is just stupid and causes people to use macros to work around a bad interface.

[Mystere]

Idealsuspect, on 05 March 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

You are entirely right ...
If macros are allowed ok fine, implement this in the core mechanics of game like we have mechs loadout and groups weapons to set.
If it isnt also make some monitoring, bann people who will still use it after a patch note warning.

Any solutions are ok but be clear and fair... If you havent simlply the ressources for implement it in the game or prevents theirs use just tell us too and admit that you can't provide a real competitive fair game.
I will be ok with any solutions in fact i don't care but the actual system is totally PGI... not finish, not clear, not balanced, not professionnal. ( i use some macros )

But PGI already said it loud and clear:

Quote

USING MACRO SOFTWARE

Keybind macro software and hardware mechanisms are permitted for use as long as such mechanisms still require manual input to initiate and do not fully automate gameplay.

Some people just will not stop until the rules are what they demand they should be. It's a kind of a God complex. <smh>

Edited by Mystere, 05 March 2016 - 08:20 AM.

[nehebkau]

Actually, I do think macros can be considered unfair. However, a cheat is something that isn't allowed by the ToS or CoC and macros are.

I have written my own macros for testing and that is what led me to this conclusion. The gauss rifle macro I tested keept my gauss charged without firing it and when I click the actual fire button it goes off almost instantly (no delay). The macro virtually eliminated the charge-up on gauss rounds letting me snap shot them like we used to. I didn't use it in actual matches because I am a bit of a purist but I could have.

Is that cheating? No. Is it unfair? Kinda.

Edited by nehebkau, 05 March 2016 - 08:23 AM.

[Mystere]

oldradagast, on 05 March 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

I never said it gave a "huge advantage" - most of them give very little of an edge and some are just used for fun builds or folks with disabilities. I don't have a problem with the macros themselves - my gripe is with people who claim "macros don't do anything at all that you can't do on your own," which is a silly statement and then usually proven wrong 2 posts later when somebody describes what their latest macro does.

If you want to use them, fine - I really don't care and I don't think for a moment they give enough of an edge to really matter; it's like turning down your graphics settings, or buying a top end computer and gaming mouse to play the game - all minor changes that can't replace real skill, practice, and teamwork. But at least be HONEST about why you're using them and don't pretend everyone is stupid enough to believe that they "don't do anything for the user, but we create and use them all the time anyway just because... uh, yeah." That half-arsed defense of macros makes as much sense as saying that a top-end gaming mouse "offers no real advantage over a basic 2 button + keyboard combination because it's just buttons that you can press already on your own." It's transparent BS.

So, yeah - use them if you want because it doesn't really matter, but at least show some intellectual honesty when saying WHY you're using them - they give you a small edge for certain builds under certain conditions, and there's nothing wrong with that, anymore than buying a top-end computer, getting a good mouse, getting a good headset for VoIP, etc.

Here is the rub: PGI explicitly allows them. So no defense is actually required, nada, nil, zilch. But some people will not be happy until the God's Laws (i.e with them as the God) is implemented.

[Mead]

Nightmare1, on 05 March 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

While paraphrasing Star Trek Next Generation.

I actually don't have a glorified gaming console though, now that I think about it. Just a toaster with a keyboard.

I didn't mean to be a jerk, but I was drunk on good scotch and that line totally broke my funny bone

[Nightmare1]

Mead, on 05 March 2016 - 08:32 AM, said:

I didn't mean to be a jerk, but I was drunk on good scotch and that line totally broke my funny bone

Naw, it's fine! I was being a bit of a jerk myself towards poor Mystere while enjoying picking at him/her a bit too much.

Actually, I thought your comment spot-on and humorous.

[Mystere]

Nightmare1, on 05 March 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

Naw, it's fine! I was being a bit of a jerk myself towards poor Mystere while enjoying picking at him/her a bit too much.

Actually, I thought your comment spot-on and humorous.

I'm partially made of teflon.

And if somebody does manage to get through, that's when they start hearing buzzing sounds within their local air space.

Edited by Mystere, 05 March 2016 - 08:52 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Still, those people taking performance enhancing drugs like coffee need to be banned.

[Mystere]

Ghogiel, on 05 March 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Still, those people taking performance enhancing drugs like coffee need to be banned.

You're going to have to pry my French press and Turkish pot off my cold dead hands.

[Nightmare1]

Mystere, on 05 March 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

I'm partially made of teflon.

And if somebody does manage to get through, that's when they start hearing buzzing sounds within their air space.

Thanks for not getting cross with me! I was looking back over some of my posts and thinking, "Wow, I was really yanking this poor guy's/gal's chain kinda hard." I didn't mean to offend!

Ghogiel, on 05 March 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Still, those people taking performance enhancing drugs like coffee need to be banned.

ROFL

[MerryIguana]

To all the people that believe macros dont increase weapon speed..

There was (probably still is, lolpgi) a macro that doubled mg fire rate.

So know what your talking about thanks.

[Pjwned]

Johnny Z, on 05 March 2016 - 01:55 AM, said:

Its as asinine as saying that anything a macro can do a player can do easily and a lot funnier.

There's nothing that macros do that players can't do without macros. It might not be easy to do some things that macros do, which is why somebody probably uses a macro for some things like TAG toggle or rapid chain fire autocannons or whatever, but there is no macro exclusive functionality in the game.

Note that I'm not against PGI adding more in-game functionality to mimic various macros, but that means PGI actually doing work to implement that so chances are low it will happen.

[Chuck Jager]

If I go to a bike race, I change my tires to the best for the course. It does not make me win, it gives my other skills a better chance to shine. (there are tons of casuals at a bike race)

Skill is in knowing how to perform the best you can as allowed by the rules and INDIVIDUAL LEVEL OF COMMITMENT/COMFORT.

IF macros are legal and they help somebody, that individual would be hurting their team by not using them, or in the least limiting their performance level. You can play sports without cleats, but what happens on a muddy field against another good team.

Solo Q has a broad range of skills and playstyles, but everybody needs to realize you can not force someone else to play the game the same way. Also right and wrong may be a black and white issue for one person, but not even on the radar for another. It stinks at times, but we all got to deal with it.

[Idealsuspect]

Mystere, on 05 March 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

But PGI already said it loud and clear:



Some people just will not stop until the rules are what they demand they should be. It's a kind of a God complex. <smh>

Quote

USING MACRO SOFTWARE

Keybind macro software and hardware mechanisms are permitted for use as long as such mechanisms still require manual input to initiate and do not fully automate gameplay.

Do not fully automate? also it can automate partially ...


PGI is just totally armless agaisnt macros they admit it and it's understandable.
But if they were pro they would add their own macro's system at mwo game mechanics, for everybody even non-aware people should benefit of this.
Cheat no, kinda unfair only. ( i use some macros )

Edited by Idealsuspect, 05 March 2016 - 11:29 AM.

[AEgg]

Idealsuspect, on 05 March 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

Do not fully automate? also it can automate partially ...


PGI is just totally armless agaisnt macros they admit it and it's understandable.
But if they were pro they would add their own macro's system at mwo game mechanics, for everybody even non-aware people should benefit of this.
Cheat no, kinda unfair only. ( i use some macros )

That's probably in there so PGI can more easily justify people with macros that drop into a match, press W until they die, rinse and repeat. Was a lot more of a problem in the past when your income depended almost entirely on win/loss.

It's literally impossible for macros to actually automate gameplay to any meaningful extent, because they can't see or think. I guess you could try recording an entire round of keystrokes from each start position on each map, that basically just has you walking around aimlessly, and then play the game only by moving your mouse around to torso twist and shot, but that seems like a whole lot of work to make yourself lose.

[Lostdragon]

MerryIguana, on 05 March 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

To all the people that believe macros dont increase weapon speed..

There was (probably still is, lolpgi) a macro that doubled mg fire rate.

So know what your talking about thanks.

Pretty sure that was a bug that was fixed long ago.