119 replies to this topic

[Sader325]

http://www.twitch.tv...r325/v/52212165

[El Bandito]

Had the same situation, just rallied the pugs with others and pushed. Died within 7 seconds of the push while doing around 200 damage in a Mauler, but we won. Sometimes it is just about YOLOing.

[Wintersdark]

I don't understand why a team full of LRM boats is special, but a team full of laser boats would be perfectly ok.



Edit: There's this feel, to that discussion, that... "They were just having fun wrong". They played and won, and there's all this grouchiness because they didn't play the way you guys wanted them to play. But they beat you, handily. ECM wouldn't have changed that - I run LRM mechs with some measure of frequency, and I don't have "the occasional good game with a bad mech", I have very solid games with them very consistently. One or two enemy mechs with ECM isn't really an issue.

I don't contend LRM's are great weapons, but they're serviceable when used well.

I just find this notion that having a whole team with laser boats is perfectly reasonable, but having ~5 mechs with LRM's on a 12 man team is so ridiculously over the top... It's a pretty strong double standard.

Edited by Wintersdark, 03 March 2016 - 08:10 PM.

[Sader325]

Wintersdark, on 03 March 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

I don't understand why a team full of LRM boats is special, but a team full of laser boats would be perfectly ok.

Simple really, because on pretty much any other map that team would have lost. Horribly.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

mediocre

using twitch i mean. real men use youtube!

[Wintersdark]

Sader325, on 03 March 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

Simple really, because on pretty much any other map that team would have lost. Horribly.

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they were just better than you? After all, if your team had, you know, actually pushed, used cover (and there's LOTS of cover on PH) you could have closed, but you didn't.

But it doesn't matter; what they did got them a victory. They just beat you, that's all there is to it. That they beat you by Having Fun Wrong really matter.

It's pretty easy to just say "they would have lost in <this other circumstance>", but it's kinda douchey to do that.

[Sader325]

Wintersdark, on 03 March 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe they were just better than you? After all, if your team had, you know, actually pushed, used cover (and there's LOTS of cover on PH) you could have closed, but you didn't.

But it doesn't matter; what they did got them a victory. They just beat you, that's all there is to it. That they beat you by Having Fun Wrong really matter.

It's pretty easy to just say "they would have lost in <this other circumstance>", but it's kinda douchey to do that.

Not sure why it's "douchey".

This was the one map where a team like that could get away with something like this. Do you think any of those LRM boats would be the first to push forward on any other map?

It's essentially the luck of the draw, this isn't the first time I've seen a team with a lot of LRM boats in solo queue. It was the first time I had seen it succeed to such a degree, because as I said, those 5 LRM boats on any other map would have been a giant liability.

I don't care that I lost, I don't care that they were in LRM boats honestly, I was rather enjoying the view actually as it was an interesting sight to behold.

But don't pretend they would have won any other map, because they wouldn't have.

*EDIT*
Which is to say thats why its such an interesting thing. These guys essentially got lucky, the planets aligned and everything set up for a truly glorious LRM game.

That being said, it probably took them well over 500 games to finally have one truly great LRM match, because on the whole that weapon system is extremly ineffective most of the time. And an LRM team is more often than not doomed to failure.

Edited by Sader325, 03 March 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 03 March 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

mediocre

using twitch i mean. real men use youtube!

I suppose if you like getting copyright strikes and your channel getting banned.

[Anyone00]

Now that you mention it I do have a reason to play right after the Archer hits.

Edited by Anyone00, 03 March 2016 - 08:34 PM.

[Wolfways]

Indirect LRM's = force multiplier.
Indirect fire is too easy.

Polar is the best map in the game by far, and is nothing but cover if you know how to use cover, but get a NARC on you and you are dead as there is no high cover to hide behind.
NARC actually turns a crap weapon into an OP one.

[Jeffrey Wilder]

Sader325, on 03 March 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

That being said, it probably took them well over 500 games to finally have one truly great LRM match, because on the whole that weapon system is extremly ineffective most of the time. And an LRM team is more often than not doomed to failure.

Have to agree on this.

There are games which I wonder why does it take so long for team mates to kill an enemy mech. I only realized it after I spectate the remaining mechs and behold; all LRM boats!

Usually I lose games where most of my team mates are LRM boaters. The max I had was about 6 LRMs mechs; that's half the team, no need to guess the outcome.

The only map that favors LRM boating in high tiers is Polar and nothing else. LRMs stand no chance on other maps on T1 and 2.

[Wintersdark]

Sader325, on 03 March 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

Not sure why it's "douchey".

This was the one map where a team like that could get away with something like this. Do you think any of those LRM boats would be the first to push forward on any other map?

I don't know who the players were, so I don't pretend to know what they'd have done elsewhere. But I do know I run my LRM/ERSL mad dog, and I'm always pushing forwards, and it works very well for me. Much the same with my LRM/MPL Warhawk. IS LRM boats generally struggle with it, but Clan's light weight LRM's allow them to bring a solid amount of LRM firepower and still have a solid bit in CQB.

So, yeah, I run mechs with LRM's frequently and have no trouble getting very good performance out of them. Not hiding in the back or BS like that, either.

Quote

It's essentially the luck of the draw, this isn't the first time I've seen a team with a lot of LRM boats in solo queue. It was the first time I had seen it succeed to such a degree, because as I said, those 5 LRM boats on any other map would have been a giant liability.

I don't care that I lost, I don't care that they were in LRM boats honestly, I was rather enjoying the view actually as it was an interesting sight to behold.

But don't pretend they would have won any other map, because they wouldn't have.

Funny, because I've seen it succeed a decent number of times: So long as the guys running LRM's are actually decent players, not cowards hiding in the back and doing all those standard LRM failings.

Quote

*EDIT*
Which is to say thats why its such an interesting thing. These guys essentially got lucky, the planets aligned and everything set up for a truly glorious LRM game.

That being said, it probably took them well over 500 games to finally have one truly great LRM match, because on the whole that weapon system is extremly ineffective most of the time. And an LRM team is more often than not doomed to failure.

over 500 games to have a really great LRM match? Doubtful. I manage to have really great LRM matches in a large majority of matches I bring them.

[Nostromodamus]

Is the thread title sarcastically referring to Sader's play? Because all I saw was a lot of running away from an LRM line, watching most of the action from afar and barely firing at any enemy mechs.

Pro gameplay indeed.

[Wintersdark]

Wolfways, on 03 March 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

Indirect LRM's = force multiplier.
Indirect fire is too easy.

Polar is the best map in the game by far, and is nothing but cover if you know how to use cover, but get a NARC on you and you are dead as there is no high cover to hide behind.
NARC actually turns a crap weapon into an OP one.

This is true. NARC, particularly on PH, is a death sentence. It's VERY difficult to survive being NARC'd if you not near buildings, at long range, or one of the better rocky outcroppings. On the other hand, on most maps, effective LRM use means that NARC isn't very useful (you're close, and probably have LOS most of the time anyways)... But on PH, NARC is lethal.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolfways, on 03 March 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

Indirect LRM's = force multiplier.
Indirect fire is too easy.

Polar is the best map in the game by far, and is nothing but cover if you know how to use cover, but get a NARC on you and you are dead as there is no high cover to hide behind.
NARC actually turns a crap weapon into an OP one.

Technically, Polar Highland is full of concealment, not cover.

The difference, whilst seemingly minor, actually IS the difference between life and death.
http://www.offthegri...vs-concealment/

But I find gamers get the idea confused just as often as the difference between viable and optimal.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Any competent team seeing that many LRMs would bum-rush them in a brawl and easily win. PUGlandia has no clue.

[Wintersdark]

Jeffrey Wilder, on 03 March 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

Have to agree on this.

There are games which I wonder why does it take so long for team mates to kill an enemy mech. I only realized it after I spectate the remaining mechs and behold; all LRM boats!

Usually I lose games where most of my team mates are LRM boaters. The max I had was about 6 LRMs mechs; that's half the team, no need to guess the outcome.

The only map that favors LRM boating in high tiers is Polar and nothing else. LRMs stand no chance on other maps on T1 and 2.

Keep in mind, there's a difference between "I have nothing but LRM's and mountains of ammo" and LRM's as part of your full loadout. My LRM mad dog sustains 20dps at 200m, is heat neutral when just firing it's 25 damage laser alphas. The warhawk? 40 damage MPL alphas. May not sound as threatening as some, but when it's after you've been pelted with 3LRM15's... These mechs, working as an LRM team, are still very dangerous up close. And in close quarters, they're able to continue firing even through the press of friendly mechs, allowing them to lend fire support in narrow passages/crowded scrums.

[Lord Perversor]

Bishop Steiner, on 03 March 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

Technically, Polar Highland is full of concealment, not cover.

The difference, whilst seemingly minor, actually IS the difference between life and death.
http://www.offthegri...vs-concealment/

But I find gamers get the idea confused just as often as the difference between viable and optimal.

Just to put into situation, go for minute 4:30, hey enemy LRM team, let's run back at the pseudo flat snowy terrain instead jump into the H7 trench and be ready for close quarters.

Imho those Trenches are lifesavers and if you know how to maneuver properly can use them to block some Lrm even narced.

[Aresye]

GRiPSViGiL, on 03 March 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

Any competent team seeing that many LRMs would bum-rush them in a brawl and easily win. PUGlandia has no clue.

Essentially the game came down to random chance. The other team just happened to have someone with a NARC, in addition to 3-4 Mad Dog LRM boats, a Warhawk LRM boat, in addition to dropping on the most LRM friendly map of them all, in addition to Sader's team not having enough ECM, in addition to Sader's team not having enough AMS, etc.

I think that's what Sader meant by asking if this is what people considered fun. There isn't that extra mile you can push your mech to compensate for a bad team. You are literally 100% at the mercy of whatever the matchmaker decides to do.

Personally I like having some form of control over match outcome. Bringing a weapon system into solo queue that can be made 100% ineffective due to random chance with the matchmaker isn't very fun in my eyes. Sure, the MM may put a bunch of solo comps on one side while giving me a bunch of brand new T3 steam users, but at least I know I can still play to 100% of my own personal capability.

[Excessive Paranoia]

And here I was hoping that I'd finally get away from that horror when I tick over to T1 soon...