416 replies to this topic

[Virlutris]

Those aren't bad mechs.

The BJ-3 is probably the most meta-compliant, but it's not like you're bringing Vindy-1X, SDR-5V, and a couple Zeuses. Even 3 Marauders and a Cicada's not terribad.

[Edit to add: If you've got, or are willing to get a BJ-1X, it's still a solid performer in faction play. The Maraders with a BJ-3+BJ-1X would be plenty reasonable evening it comes in light.]

The only big practical problem there is that Marauders aren't known for being nimble or fleet of foot. If the team needs to move fast, the Marauders aren't going to be able to keep up very well for a long dash to a rally point. Light fusion engines will help some with speed when they arrive with the timeline jump this summer.

I differ a little from some in this, but I'd rather have you bring the best meta loadouts on those mechs you've got and start learning good team tactics on the FRR hub while you work on a top-flight, fine-tuned meta deck. But again, probably a good idea to keep an eye on the skill tree and timeline jump for balance shifts.

This is not me selling you on an idea, but I can't help brainstorming a little:
It wouldn't hurt to get a 65- or 70-ton chassis that can run an XL competently, to be able to keep up and bring lots of guns. It's exactly why Grasshoppers and a couple Warhammers are popular. They're unlikely to fall out of favor because of good hardpoint locations and hitboxes. I think they're as safe as anything is going to be carrying over into the new system, but ultimately we'll have to see.

Edited by Virlutris, 17 April 2017 - 11:35 AM.

[HolyMoly23]

Bud Crue, on 17 April 2017 - 11:02 AM, said:

I'd honestly PM one of the ISEN guys (Tarogato). I am in no position to give mech or build advice. Alternatively log on the the TS channel (or is it discord now?) and see if anyone in the longships can give you recommendations.

I think I will try that.

Thanks for the help bud.

[HolyMoly23]

Virlutris, on 17 April 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

Those aren't bad mechs.

The BJ-3 is probably the most meta-compliant, but it's not like you're bringing Vindy-1X, SDR-5V, and a couple Zeuses.Even 3 Marauders and a Cicada's not terribad.

The only big practical problem there is that Marauders aren't known for being nimble or fleet of foot. If the team needs to move fast, the Marauders aren't going to be able to keep up very well for a long dash to a rally point. Light fusion engines will help some with speed when they arrive with the timeline jump this summer.

I differ a little from some in this, but I'd rather have you bring the best meta loadouts on those mechs you've got and start learning good team tactics on the FRR hub while you work on a top-flight, fine-tuned meta deck. But again, probably a good idea to keep an eye on the skill tree and timeline jump for balance shifts.

This is not me selling you on an idea, but I can't help brainstorming a little:
It wouldn't hurt to get a 65- or 70-ton chassis that can run an XL competently, to be able to keep up and bring lots of guns. It's exactly why Grasshoppers and a couple Warhammers are popular. They're unlikely to fall out of favor because of good hardpoint locations and hitboxes. I think they're as safe as anything is going to be carrying over into the new system, but ultimately we'll have to see.

Thanks for this information.

I have noticed the the marauder is very slow mech I think I will trade in my marauder for the Grass Hopper.

I will check the documentation again and build towards that.

Kind regards

[Jarl Dane]

Plazmadawg, on 17 April 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

Thanks for this information.

I have noticed the the marauder is very slow mech I think I will trade in my marauder for the Grass Hopper.

I will check the documentation again and build towards that.

Kind regards

In today's CW atmosphere a Grasshopper is a solid mech selection. There's some speculation that the high mounted, fairly quick Roughneck will also be a contender but we're still trying it out and seeing just how well it works in the field.

[Tarogato]

How are Roughnecks going for people? I think it would sit pretty high on the list with some builds, but I don't own them, and I'm not even that familiar with builds on them. Just messing around smurfy...


4x LL or ERLL? or too slow and hot? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3a9e36b3f273792

4x LPL w/XL? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bcc1e4b0e64d0f5

3x LPL w/STD? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6f7d7287e198173

Laservomit? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dc553b134e431b1

2x LB10 worth it at all? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d7709e62c80c09b

XL brawler viable at all or too slow? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c5e6f8157a8f0fb

Does AC20 work at all? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b8ef352fd9e87ad

Tankier Jager or not worth it? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b138d82c41e764

Side peeking Jager? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eeb1982d5c71e30

Dakka brawler? http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0517a36422107d9

[LordLeto]

2xLBX10 is always worth it. Though I would consider backup weapons.

Baradul did a build with the 2A with 3 ML in the CT/Head to back up the LBX10s and full zombie mode.

Something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ea32c5a7adc61d4

Edited by LordLeto, 07 May 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[Euphoric1RW]

Thanks for the information!

[Jarl Dane]

Give us sometime to properly evaluate the brave new world we live in. GHR's still seem pretty stronk, but WHM's might be too sluggish...

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

A big thanks to Tarogato for coming up with an offline skill tree planner, at least! https://tarogato-mwo..._skill_planner/

I decided not to touch any potential FW mechs just yet, in case the FW meta changes as a result of the new skill trees...just going to play around with some other mechs' trees until it is clearer how each of the trees will be relevant.

One thing I'm hearing is that the heat generation nodes on the Firepower tree might actually be a better choice over Cool Run, depending on how many heatsinks one is running...but you have to take more nodes in the Firepower tree to accomplish that, and spending more points there while skipping other defensive nodes may or may not be worth it.

[naterist]

Max Duration and range nodes on any erll boat makes allot more checks viable at 800+meters. Battlemaster and grasshopper with 6 and 5 erll are even better, and as snipers, dont need as much investment in other trees, so you have some extra nodes for... maybe consumables? Im experimenting with target info for erll snipers, and radar detp and seismic for avoiding backshotting lights and countersnipers.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

You can certainly build for long range and ignore the Mobility/Agility tree as it wouldn't matter as much as it would for brawling, but then how often do fights remain long range for the duration versus those that start long range and wind up in a brawl? Is it better to remain a jack-of-all-trades, or have multiple mechs spec'd out differently for each possible situation, or does tweaking a few nodes here and there really make enough of a difference in the long run? I'm kind of leaning to building for defense every time...the long or short range game could change in mid battle, but always having more armor and structure is good for both situations, as well as some kind of heat reduction to allow for more pew pew (unless using a Gauss boat). I think we'll find that we'll always have to have a few trees for every mech, like Survival and Operations, as the stats they offer are just too good to pass up and apply to all situations, and then the remaining trees would be more situational after that.

[naterist]

What role your playing is going to be detirmined by your positioning. I like the range, and if im overwatch i know to keep my brawlers between me and the enemy at all times. Some agility may be good for relocating, or dealing with pesky lights, but you can snipe at 300 meters and still be fine, as long as your aware of whats happening.

Rule of thumb, if you understand the game and positioning, specialize. If your newer.... still specialize and learn how to play the specialty. Much as i hate it, well rounded builds are only marginally viable in all situations. Specialized builds are good at certain situations, and you learn how to force that situation you want in gameplay.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

I'm assuming people have noticed how high the base mobility stats are for Quickdraws, for acceleration, deceleration, turn rate, torso speed and torso twist? For 60 tons, it's 150% or more as mobile as the 70-tonners, and even significantly more mobile than the 65-ton Thunderbolt. Yeah, for whatever reason, Warhammers are noticeably more sluggish than the same tonnage Grasshopper. Anyway, all other stats being adjustable in the skill tree, I wonder if this higher mobility will see the Quickdraw come back into rotation?

[nehebkau]

I was going to try some builds later today. With its base high mobility you can ignore a lot of the mobility tree. Having said that, with the thunderbolts, and specially the Top Dog, you can ignore most of the mobility and survival trees and still have a decent amount of fire-power with a std 300 engine.

[Jarl Dane]

I'd be happy to see a return of the Quickdraw. I ran the old brawler version we had for the Stormtroopers and it felt pretty solid.. but that was also very preliminary testing. With how sluggish the WHM is I think it's finally been completely outclassed by the GHR, which is still surprisingly spry without anything in the mobility tree.

GRF-3M appears to have eclipsed the GRF-2N. HBK-4SP is even more tanky, but due to heat stuff loses more firepower as well. Clan laservomit, however, got a really huge boost and might be the most meta thing out there at the moment unfortunately.

These are a few general things we've noted. When we get more grounded we'll edit the document and we'll also put up some basic well-rounded skill-trees for the mechs on our document - but it'll take some time as we really are only barely beginning to figure out ST meta in ISEN.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Have you checked out GMan's Metamechs Skill Tree guides? He's got some good high-benefit/low-waste tree setups with explanations, depending on how much you want to invest in each tree. He even has a spreadsheet to show the breakeven points on when to go for more armor or structure nodes in the Survival tree. It's a good starting point for discussions, at least.

If the GHR is still decent, then I'm thinking the 5P with its huge structure quirks is the tankiest of them and might be worth taking over the 5H, even with the 5H's energy weapon heat quirk. Thanks to the Salvage Sale, I bought an extra of each anyway.

[4EVR]

On the standard engine GHR, if you take the right-side half of the mobility tree (3x speed tweak), you get a top speed of 72.5kph from a Std 300. You lose the medium laser in the CT but heat management ends up being pretty much exactly the same as the 3xLPL, 4xML XL build. So in that sense it might be a nice stepping stone.

[Sjorpha]

A lot of the armor quirked mechs need to be looked into as they are incredibly tanky with the armor nodes, I would rate Dragon 1C as the absolute top IS heavy now with 3LPL or 4ERLL.

Cataphracts are also very good for heavy ballistic boating now despite low mounts, other unexpectedly strong mechs are the bushwhacker (2AC10 or SRMS), the Victor 9B(AC20+3ASRM6) and the Zeus 9S(4LPL, Zeus won the mobility lottery and is now the most agile assault in the game, on top of great structure buffs.)

I haven't played Orions yet but i suspect they are very strong brawlers now.

Phoenix hawk 2 looks like one of the best IS Conquest mechs with 130+ speed, ECM, durability buffs and 130+ speed + 6 arm mounted lasers to hunt down and leg enemy lights or duel them at contested caps.

BLR-2C still king of IS assault hill poking with LPL or ERLL.

Quickdraw and thunderbolts I think are relatively bad heavies now, I don't see anything they do better than other mechs at the moment.

[Jarl Dane]

I too have heard good things about the Dragon-1C

[Windscape]

it sounds like roughnecks have just been swept under the table. maybe things will kick up again when its available for Cbills,because the Bushwacker wasn't mentioned too much until it was released for Cbills.