416 replies to this topic

[4EVR]

Order your variety pack today! Now with extra variety!

265t ideas:

Front-loaded, much lazor, very wow:
Battlemaster + 2x Grasshopper + Cicada
Battlemaster + 3x Dragon
Battlemaster + Grasshopper + Dragon + ENF or Crab
Battlemaster + Zeus + Dragon + Cicada

Black Knight(*) + Grasshopper + 2x Dragon
Black Knight(*) + 2x Grasshopper + ENF or Crab

Balanced:
2x Grasshopper + Jagermech or Catapult or Roughneck or Tbolt + Dragon
2x Grasshopper + 2x Dragon (260t) (**)

Cap: 2x Battlemaster + 2x Phoenix Hawk (260t)
Cap: Zeus + 2x Grasshopper + Phoenix Hawk
Cap: 2x Zeus + Dragon + Phoenix Hawk

Dakka:
Cataphract + 3x Jagermech
lil dakka: 3x Grasshopper + Bushwacker
half dakka: 2x Grasshopper + Cataphract + Bushwacker
Leto's Favorite: 3x Cataphract + Bushwacker

Brawl: 3x Victor + #FEARTHECOMMANDO(***)
Brawl: 2x Victor + GRF-3M or Bushwacker + Centurion
Brawl: Victor + Orion + Catapult + Vindicator
Brawl: Victor + Orion + 2x GRF-3M or Bushwacker
Brawl: 3x Orion + Assassin
Brawl: 2x Orion + Catapult + Centurion

Drunk: 2x Atlas + LRM Oxide + Urbanmech


(*) The BLK is better than the GHR in the following sense: it looks cool. Like, really nice. I mean, just look at it and rejoice.

(**) I'm just gonna call this the best at the moment. The five extra tons lets you swap in a 75 or 65 tonner as desired. But none of them have the same base quirks.

(***) Seriously, Commandos have benefited a lot from the ST.

My beloved Quickdraw is just not quirks-blessed at the moment. Especially a range quirk would be so nice on the 5K in 3xLPL+2xML config. The base structure quirks are lacking as well. It does have the same agility as the Dragon and doesn't have a snout. The Dragon's snout is kind of a mixed bag, you can be hit easier but you only have to wiggle your nose to hide much of your side. But don't just wiggle your nose, use the shield arm(s) as much as possible.


Edited: Don't list dakka first. Expand dakka. =)

Edited by 4EVR, 13 June 2017 - 09:17 AM.

[LordLeto]

I'm not going to take any CTF heavy deck seriously. The skill tree did a lot, it didn't put the CTF on a diet or raise its arms. And ECM isn't what it once was.

[4EVR]

What are your thoughts on the other ideas? (edit:) I moved the dakka section and added a few more dakka options. Hope you like "your" deck.

Edited by 4EVR, 13 June 2017 - 09:21 AM.

[LordLeto]

None of the others stuck me as unworkable. I'm trying the Dragons now as so far they seem to be worth their salt again, though getting used to the right side being the dead side is tricky as I have many other mechs that do the opposite and muscle memory can be hard to overcome.

Others I haven't tried, Victor, Zeus, Whacker, but have heard good things since the Skill Tree and are on my watch list.

My only other caveat is next month, if things go according to plan, is new tech month. I wouldn't wear your noodle out too much till that drops and the smoke clears. Everything I think will benefit from that, except the CTF.

I really wish I could like my deck. CTFs look awesome, they just don't translate well in this game sadly.

Edited by LordLeto, 13 June 2017 - 01:42 PM.

[Tarogato]

Unless there is sufficient call for it, I'm not planning on updating the sheet until the new tech arrives in July. LFE will change things around a bit, and I feel like coming up with new ideas in the month leading up to it is just futile with how strong clantech is right now. Plus... I haven't really been playing IS mechs lately, because my clan mechs are just too attractive.

If anything, right now, it seems Warhammers went down, Dragon 1C stepped up, and not much else has changed. In general, dakka went down, but I'm hearing reports that the MAD-3R went up? For sure BLR and GHR are still solid, QKDs still work. BNC's are back, but the extra 10 tons over a BLR is hard to justify. I think LPL spam is still the way to go. RKA has been experimenting with ERLL decks, I haven't heard back how that's going for them, though. Still haven't heard much about the Roughneck.

I kinda have a hunch that STD engine brawling with MPLs or SPLs (such as GHR, BL-KNT) could be strong atm, but again.. seems kinda futile when we'll have LFE next month.

Oh yeah, and we have an energy balance in exactly one week... so... let's at least wait to see what happens with that.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Yep, too many unknowns at this point, so I've not skilled out any of the mechs likely to be used in drop decks so that I don't waste what little GSP I got from my refund ledger, but have tinkered with a few outliers instead.

[naterist]

Tarogato, on 13 June 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

Unless there is sufficient call for it, I'm not planning on updating the sheet until the new tech arrives in July. LFE will change things around a bit, and I feel like coming up with new ideas in the month leading up to it is just futile with how strong clantech is right now. Plus... I haven't really been playing IS mechs lately, because my clan mechs are just too attractive.

If anything, right now, it seems Warhammers went down, Dragon 1C stepped up, and not much else has changed. In general, dakka went down, but I'm hearing reports that the MAD-3R went up? For sure BLR and GHR are still solid, QKDs still work. BNC's are back, but the extra 10 tons over a BLR is hard to justify. I think LPL spam is still the way to go. RKA has been experimenting with ERLL decks, I haven't heard back how that's going for them, though. Still haven't heard much about the Roughneck.

I kinda have a hunch that STD engine brawling with MPLs or SPLs (such as GHR, BL-KNT) could be strong atm, but again.. seems kinda futile when we'll have LFE next month.

Oh yeah, and we have an energy balance in exactly one week... so... let's at least wait to see what happens with that.

mad-3r has always been a beast. anything that can boat 2 or more lb10s IS side does well... generally speaking.

ive tested all erll decks, they do.... ok. definetly not as well as they used to. lpl spam will only get you so far as well....

skill tree seems to have taken a lot of mechs that relied on quirks to match the clans and it just shat all over them.

new meta would seem to be something that fits a large engine, has armour quirks, and brawls decently.

Edited by naterist, 14 June 2017 - 02:43 PM.

[Tarogato]

I'm in the process of updating the list now. Here is a link to it again for convenience.

It will be a while before we've settled on builds and mechs, but we're getting started. First assessing the old "best" mechs and giving them tech upgrades where applicable (which means Light Engines, generally). After that, we'll assess some new chassis (UZL, ANH, CTF?), and then work on re-sorting the mechs into the new tiers that they belong in. That means that mechs aren't necessarily listed in their correct tier at the moment.






Some notes so far in regards to new tech:


Light Engines aren't always better. I find myself still preferring XLs for a lot of mechs (almost all medium mechs, and things like Grasshoppers), but I don't want to recommend XLs as a baseline as not everybody has the skill/experience to make XL truly survivable - more people will probably benefit from the survivability of LE. So generally, I'll be preferring Light Engine builds on the sheet.


ERML are a bit hot. I can not recommend using them in general, as they hamstring your mech into a more passive trading role. With the added heat of ERML, you cannot push into the enemy or receive a brawl quite as effectively, they just are not as flexible. So I will stick to recommending the good old bog-standard ML for now. The ERML can work better on dedicated longer range trading mechs, and as such I generally pair it with LL instead of LPL (extra tons for DHS helps). However, I still don't think IS wins the midrange trade game even with ERML, which is why I still think LPL+ML is a better general purpose combination, and probably the best tool in the Innersphere's kit right now. If you disagree with this assessment and have had experience making midrange poke work again competent clan teams, I'd love to hear about it - I'm not ruling out the possibility that it can work.


LPL+ML: just an extra note on this weapon combination. For a long time the preferred build was 3x LPL plus however many ML you can reasonably fit. With the energy rebalance, the LPL received a damage nerf and the ML received a heat efficiency buff. After running calculations, it's clear that there is now better DPS to be had with combinations of 2x LPL + however many mediums and the extra heatsinks you get. I'd like to thank Rydiak for his help in figuring this out. I'm changing all builds over to this scheme where applicable, and it also helps accommodate Light Engines, so it's a win-win.


RACs unfortunately are just bad at the moment. The sheer DPS on RAC5 is immense, but it's absolutely useless against anything other than the largest and slowest assaults. The reason is the velocity - you cannot accurately track a moving target with RAC5. Also, the jam duration is incredibly punishing. While the RAC2 makes up for the low velocity, it only outputs about half the DPS, so I don't see the worth in taking it. For right now, RACs are best only in close range, where they are outclassed by LB10 builds. As such, I will be recommending zero RAC builds on the sheet. Sorry, I know they're fun. =[


MRMs are okay. I won't be recommending many (if any... ) builds with MRMs at this time. Most people agree that they are garbage due to the high spread. I've had very promising results with them. But they need to be able to compete against PPFLD and laservomit alphas. They seem best used as a poptarting weapon. I'm withholding judgement on them until I hear back from more people about how effective they are (and I truly mean "effective" - they can do a lot of sheer damage, but if you can't deal enough pinpoint damage to single components, then they are not worth taking over midrange laservomit/PPCs). That said... something like this stands half a chance of making it onto the sheet. Hrmmmm.


UAC10s are apparently hot. I wouldn't know, I haven't been using them. My thoughts are to stick with UAC5 builds generally, as the whole reason for running dakka in an organised team is to have sheer DPS advantage, particularly for pushing or receiving on hot maps. If the UAC10 is too hot to do that, then we shouldn't use it. But I'd like to hear back from more folk on what their experiences are with this weapon and if they've found any builds that can keep up enough DPS to outclass UAC5 builds and enough range to have an advantage over LB10 builds (which are apparently really strong now?)

Edited by Tarogato, 21 July 2017 - 07:28 PM.

[Shamansky]

Good day. May be it's not a proper thread, but all others i've found were so much dead. Sorry if i'm wrong anyway.
I'm currently using this JM6-DD as a long range support. i've separated hands in 2 weapons groups, so it is just rapid mouse buttons tapping. A little bit slow and tends to overheat in close combat. But can provide suppressive fire at mid/long range very well. So what do you think?

Edited by Shamansky, 01 August 2017 - 11:06 PM.

[Chipmunkaroo]

Can we take a look at the Jester with 2 LPL and 4 erML with 300 light engine... having a lot of success. I know it is not Stormtrooper, as MC mech, but would like a tier idea for it compared to the rest that have been placed.

JESTER

Edited by Chipmunkaroo, 02 August 2017 - 03:37 PM.

[naterist]

Chipmunkaroo, on 02 August 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Can we take a look at the Jester with 2 LPL and 4 erML with 300 light engine... having a lot of success. I know it is not Stormtrooper, as MC mech, but would like a tier idea for it compared to the rest that have been placed.

JESTER

id move the lpls to the side torso, so they dont get lost as easily, but it looks good to me.

Edited by naterist, 02 August 2017 - 11:32 PM.

[Tarogato]

So umm...

I have a spreadsheet that calculates the DPS of builds and such... and I made a comparison to bring into perspective the most recent balance changes for this coming October patch, this is what we're looking at:





If you run ML or ERML, you're looking at about a 25% loss in burst damage. So now what? Looks like it's back to running 3LPL builds, 4LPL, more LB10 builds, ... I would say UAC/PPC, but UAC just got a heat nerf...

I feel like XL is going to be mandatory again if you want to have a chance. LFE builds relied on the tonnage efficiency of medium lasers... and their role just got pretty much erased from the game. My recommendation: go sign a clan contract until this game is balanced.

[ggodo]

As someone who left the game for unrelated reasons around the skill tree patch, does anyone know why they would do this? I was going to hop on for the loyalty rewards and bust out The Hopper for a couple rounds. Any suggestion for what to be using? Ignore the Civil War tech and just rock LPLs?

[dante245]

thanks for this very well built list...to bad i cant find anything comparable for Clan" yes i know" but as a hybrid loyalist faction "Rasalhague Dominion is a Clan House" that incorporates the best of FRR and GB, and would benefit from a Clan list as much as the kungsarme list.

[BoldricKent]

I can give you few pointers : - Golden Retrivers : Artic cheeta, Piranna, Artic Wolf, Hunchie, Huntsmen, Stormcrow, Hellbringer, Linbacker, Orion IIc,Marauder IIc, Mad cat II, Warhawk.
Try to match your builds with your lance/company mates ( if lrming get a spotter, if rushing get the same speed, weapons profiles, sniping get your ecm support..etc..) discus, evolve. In most cases FP is nutrition fight, so get more ammo/ heat sinks-lower alpha. Counter to regular stance, clan can do ballistic and missile well.

[Tooninki]

Any updates on this?
does anyone still use "stormtrooper" deck?

[Jarl Dane]

There is work that still continues, but this post and it's link are currently out of date.

I recommend using GrimMechs or coming by the RKA discord.