416 replies to this topic

[Jarl Dane]

MischiefSC, on 04 March 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

Thinking the same thing. Maybe I'll do a second week back in FRR after my time spying on... err... coincidentally dropping with MS in CSJ is over.

Maybe your unit should permanently switch factions.

[Liquid Leopard]

VompoVompatti, on 04 March 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

Not a single mech I like to run
Well maybe the black knight if I get bored of my battlemasters.

Vompo, I think if you're ever bored with your Battlemasters, you'd probably be bored with MW:O.

[Val_Z]

Kshat, on 04 March 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Just to help out: it might be easier for a new player to level his BJ1 with another build, for simply one fact: with an AC20/MPL build, you truly have to commit in order to deal damage. Especially in random PUG matches, those situations don't come that often and are most certainly hard to discern for a new player. Not fun to fully commit and later on realise that your team ran away into hiding.

In my opinion far easier to adapt to, is this build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5b4a588dc4ea32b

Well, as MtD stated in a post below yours, once discussion starts about builds it becomes noise and confusion for new players and those still learning, and unfortunately i am about to prove him right.

I dislike that build for many reasons, especially with a new player. For a start, regardless of the ac2 specific quirks i don't believe that is the best weapon load out for that variant (BJ-1). The BJ-1DC lends itself better to that load out. To keep it brief, at engagement ranges for most maps that benefit the team most, the ballistic weapon range and velocity quirks are largely useless for ac2's. If you can't hit targets with current ac2 velocity at 500m then you are a special sort of individual. The heat gen quirks are the same on both for ac2's, and the cooldown quirks are so close for a weapon that fires so fast that the difference between them is irrelevant. AC2's need to track and maintain sustained fire on the target to be effective, so the JJ, yaw angle and yaw speed quirks on the 1 mostly go to waste. However, the 1DC has massive accel quirks that that allow it to peek and poke hills/ridges quite quickly, more suited to tracking a target while behind cover and quickly popping down once attention has been drawn.

Putting an AC20 on that BJ-1 makes much better use of the JJ, allowing you to learn to pop tart shots, and takes better advantage of torso yaw speed and angle quirks for snap shots and shots on the move. The velocity buff is huge on the ac20 and makes it much easier to hit targets, while the cooldown quirk is nice and of bigger benefit too.

Putting aside the variant discussion for a moment, lets consider the loadout for a beginner as well. I don't like the load out full stop, let alone for a beginner. You are giving someone who is learning (only just purchased their 2nd chassis) a mech with 2 completely different weapons systems ranges. It is a good general rule to roughly match the weapon ranges of all equipped weapons. You want to be 100% effective at your preferred range, and learn to stick to that range. Rather than 50% effective at 2 ranges and be dominated anytime you try to trade at either one. Giving them this mech would encourage them to stay at range and only use half of their weaponry, which is a bad habit to get into. The ac20 matches ranges with medium lasers much more closely, and both weapons can be effective at a common optimal engagement range.

The reason the ac20 build was suggested is because with the mechs they already have purchased to get to that point, they have some good medium range poking mechs (or good long range by switching out LL/LPL to ERLL). Giving them this build, and getting them to practice in this mech allows them to get a grasp of pop tarting, brawling, trading at close range and not being hit back, positioning and reading the flow of battle at close range.

This is just some of the thinking and thought processes that went into selecting the mechs listed. And why presenting other specific options on these builds probably isn't best in this particular topic. Feel free to catch Dane, tarogato or myself on the FRR hub to present alternates discuss what is best. Just FYI, these mech builds were chosen after lots of discussion with numerous other units on the hub, we just happen to be the face used to present them.

[Val_Z]

Also, please remember both the 1DC and the 1 were NOT recommended for CW games at all. It was given as an option for a 3rd variant. If you are after a 3rd strong BJ chassis, the ARROW is the choice to make. But we wanted to provide options that didn't involve real money, to allow this guide to apply to as many people as possible.

[DaemonWulfe]

Not only that, but the AC/20 build is really fun. The trick is to stay reasonably close to your heavy and assault brawlers. When they start to engage, you can peak around friendlies and even take flight to get shots over their heads. The other BJs are far better options for damage and survivability, but the BJ-1 will still give you some good success if you time your shots right to land the AC/20 round and medium lasers on a single component. It's still reasonably agile enough to twist off damage, although for obvious reasons you don't want to keep attention for long. When I first purchased the Blackjacks, the BJ-1 was my favorite until I picked up the 1X as my fourth, which I wish I would have started with.

[razor32]

How do you get a stromtrooper tag I run quickdraws almost every drop.

[BigBaka]

The stormtrooper deck sounds really nice for attacking but whats about defending or holding situation ? Sure you r fast and you can be very flexible on defense situation but there is no tanking capacities in the deck. If 12 Quickdraws face a full wave of brawling timbers....the result should be clear if the skilllevel is similar. I think the advance defense dropdeck should include one tanksrmsbrawler and/or heavily dakka dakka mech for dps. What do you guys think about that ?
For example our match yesterday against the 2 lances of Kcoms. First wave ended with 12 to 5 in our favor because of the present of assault meatshields. Second wave was around 24 to 22 ? We did really fall apart there fielding damaged and quishy mechs. The match was decided after that wave.... Of course the skill difference was huge as well but I think to counter the current brawling runover meta you have to field more brawlers yourself as well. Some Orion VA or Atlas S could have been the different.

[Sjorpha]

BigBaka, on 05 March 2016 - 08:01 AM, said:

For example our match yesterday against the 2 lances of Kcoms. First wave ended with 12 to 5 in our favor because of the present of assault meatshields. Second wave was around 24 to 22 ? We did really fall apart there fielding damaged and quishy mechs. The match was decided after that wave.... Of course the skill difference was huge as well but I think to counter the current brawling runover meta you have to field more brawlers yourself as well. Some Orion VA or Atlas S could have been the different.

Agree completely.

I think there is a lot to explore when it comes to defense and building effective firing lines. In the match you mention I would have wanted some more 5AC5 Mauler MX90s on our side the first 2 waves, which is pretty much the perfect defence mech on that map. Problem is so few players keep mechs like that around because the general mentality is based on making a habit of attacking and wanting fast waves.

Defence dropdecks don't need to be fast, they need high sustained DPS, range to cover the entrances to the base and tankiness. Standard engines, boated dakka or large lasers with max heatsinks, on mechs that are naturally tanky, and at least one assault. I think that's worth looking into.

[Windscape]

Here are some fun, non meta builds that are pretty awesome that id like to share (cant seem to paste smurfy links atm )
some of my fav builds btw )
Jagermech DD: 2uac5, 2mpl, 4mg

Kingcrab 000 : 2lb10, 2srm6, 2smpl, 4mg
(also run a mauler like this)

Stalker 5M: 4srm4 + artimis, 4mpl, 1 lpl

Rifleman 3C: 2 lpl, 1 AC10

Rifleman 3N: 2 UAC5, 2 mpl, 4sml

grasshopper 5H 6mpl, 1 lpl

grasshopper 5N 6 ml, 2 lpl

l am also interested in buying quickdraws, but to do that I will have to leave the FRR for a longer period

and also, the good ol 6smpl locust

Edited by Windscape, 05 March 2016 - 12:28 PM.

[MischiefSC]

The stormtrooper deck as a concept would work for defense and holding for the same reason Clan decks do; you give way to the front and eat their push from the rear.

I built the deck last night and was running the mechs in quickplay. It wasn't hard to win trades at 400-500m with most Clan mechs. Anymore Clans rely on UACs and SRMs plus lasers and even if they run LPLs or ERLLs those are lightsabers compared to IS LPLs. Quirked and ranging at 400-440 optimal anyone with some twisting skills can run the QDs really, really well.

I would want to see how it actually plays out in matches but the concept is really sound. It's a fast, mobile deck. I'll put 12 Black Knights against 12 of whatever you want at 300m or less. At 300-500m the QDs are absolutely beastly. The only wild card is the SRMs. It's a decent splat alpha but not spectacular. It's a great dunk loadout but I'd be cautious trying to power through 12 TBR/HBRs rigged for brawling with it.

Fast and nimble as hell though. The reliance in IS decks of front-loaded tonnage for assault waves is a bit of a liability - it's sacrificing initiative. Good teams can and do chase your tail or just not be where you want them to and it puts you in a bad spot. A Stormtrooper team is going to have a higher skill floor but it puts a lot more strats on the table for you. Would like to see how it plays.

[Tarogato]

Windscape, on 05 March 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Here are some fun, non meta builds that are pretty awesome that id like to share (cant seem to paste smurfy links atm )
some of my fav builds btw )

If they are just "non-meta" and "fun", then why bother to post them here? We're not here to discuss builds or dropdecks at this point - we've already decided what we want and now the goal is to propagate the wisdom and see how it goes. If you want to add more mechs to the list at this point then all your going to do is add confusion and lose coherence.

[4EVR]

Yay, Quickdraw love! One of my favorite mechs.

Regarding the 5K 4xLLAS build, I ran both the 3 torso + 1 arm and the 4 in the chest config a lot. Personally, I prefer the all torso build. What you lose in corner poke prowess you make up for in shoulder-to-shoulder firing line situations. The arms on the QKD stick out a fair bit so not having to worry about knifing your comrade in the back is pretty sweet. And hill-humping.

I'm interested in how the SRM build works out. I tried the QKD SRM brawler builds before but never in a whole team situation. The QKD is kind of oversized for its tonnage and the components are easy to isolate up close. I think I ran SRM4s.

For the 3LPL configs it might be nice to use one of your mouse buttons as momentary arm-lock. That way you can keep arm lock off while twisting. The benefit is that your mouse / torso position relationship won't drift. So getting back on target after shielding is more intuitive. YMMV of course. =)

[Jarl Dane]

razor32, on 05 March 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

How do you get a stromtrooper tag I run quickdraws almost every drop.

There is a new channel at bottom of the FRR Hub, beneath the 1-5k Proof screenshots called, "Stormtrooper Deck Proof", post an image of your 4 mech CW Deck there and I'll give you the TS Stormtrooper Tag.

[MischiefSC]

Mech The Dane, on 05 March 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

There is a new channel at bottom of the FRR Hub, beneath the 1-5k Proof screenshots called, "Stormtrooper Deck Proof", post an image of your 4 mech CW Deck there and I'll give you the TS Stormtrooper Tag.

FYI, buying all the mechs and most the XLs (most people have the 300XL but probably not the 330s) was almost exactly 38 million for the Stormtrooper deck.

Actually relatively cheap for a complete 4 mech dropdeck. If someone has the BK from the Resistance pack it's almost exactly 30 million. 29 and change, assuming a couple XL330 purchases plus all 3 QDs. That's about a week of active CW play.

L33t CW drop deck on the cheap.

[Windscape]

Tarogato, on 05 March 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

If they are just "non-meta" and "fun", then why bother to post them here? We're not here to discuss builds or dropdecks at this point - we've already decided what we want and now the goal is to propagate the wisdom and see how it goes. If you want to add more mechs to the list at this point then all your going to do is add confusion and lose coherence.

My bad


Oh, and quick question. Why would you want a badge for driving a meta deck?

[Jarl Dane]

Windscape, on 06 March 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

Oh, and quick question. Why would you want a badge for driving a meta deck?

For one, it lets me see who has and doesn't have the Deck, so if I want to try and drop a 12 man Stormtrooper deck - I know who to ask.

Also, because I think it is important and, although small, I think it is a nice incentive. I appreciate those who actually step up to give this a shot and I want their efforts to not go unnoticed.

Finally, if it works out and we introduce other decks, such as the aforementioned 'Berserker Deck', the badges will help all Drop Callers in the Hub (who wish to utilize these decks and tactics) know what the pilots in their drop are capable of. Plus, ya know, it gives people something to build towards.

MischiefSC, on 05 March 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

The only wild card is the SRMs. It's a decent splat alpha but not spectacular. It's a great dunk loadout but I'd be cautious trying to power through 12 TBR/HBRs rigged for brawling with it.

You're correct. It is the riskiest mech in this deck. I am interested to see how it plays out once we get 12 stormtroopers in a drop. Since it's needed to elite your deck anyways..I feel as far as experiments go it's pretty conservative.

Edited by Mech The Dane, 06 March 2016 - 06:29 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Mech The Dane, on 05 March 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

There is a new channel at bottom of the FRR Hub, beneath the 1-5k Proof screenshots called, "Stormtrooper Deck Proof", post an image of your 4 mech CW Deck there and I'll give you the TS Stormtrooper Tag.

Just went to the hub to do this. I don't see the "stormtooper" channel. Also thought I would finally post some damage for those tags too and was unable to (just got the "ERROR" statement when I clicked on any of the channels). Just FYI.

[Windscape]

Mech The Dane, on 06 March 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

For one, it lets me see who has and doesn't have the Deck, so if I want to try and drop a 12 man Stormtrooper deck - I know who to ask.

Also, because I think it is important and, although small, I think it is a nice incentive. I appreciate those who actually step up to give this a shot and I want their efforts to not go unnoticed.

Finally, if it works out and we introduce other decks, such as the aforementioned 'Berserker Deck', the badges will help all Drop Callers in the Hub (who wish to utilize these decks and tactics) know what the pilots in their drop are capable of. Plus, ya know, it gives people something to build towards.

so the stormtrooper badge isn't really a reward, is it more like showing you are capable of running this deck, or that you run it all the time? And you have to only use those mechs for the stormtrooper deck right? Or can you use other meta builds ( like the 3 uca5 JM6 DD) or similar mechs (like the grasshopper)

[Jarl Dane]

Windscape, on 06 March 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

so the stormtrooper badge isn't really a reward, is it more like showing you are capable of running this deck, or that you run it all the time? And you have to only use those mechs for the stormtrooper deck right? Or can you use other meta builds ( like the 3 uca5 JM6 DD) or similar mechs (like the grasshopper)

Not that you run it all the time, but that you have it available to run. Maybe I'll call it something like the Order of the Stormtrooper. Anyways, you need all three QuickDraws and the Black Knight OR Grasshopper with the builds listed in this thread to be given the badge.

Edited by Mech The Dane, 07 March 2016 - 09:51 PM.

[Windscape]

ok. thx for the clarification. ( i have none of those mechs )