416 replies to this topic

[Virlutris]

Starbomber109, on 08 December 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

So as a guy who rushed into quickdraws and has way too many 60 ton heavy mechs, what should I be looking at first, warhammers or grasshoppers? (If I'm going to expand to a full on tier1 deck) Or should I finally buy those catapults that I've been wanting to use for so long? (The catapult was always my favorite IS mech in the games, but I haven't bought one yet in MWO because I've been focused on other things, the thing is it feels like the jester is the only competitive one and I hate the paint job )

One man's opinion:

If you hate ballistics, start with the 'Hoppers.

If you love all things laser, start with the 'Hoppers.

If you're not going to spend MC on the Black Widow, start with the 'Hoppers. (The missile-packing variant isn't top tier even for missiles. If you're not getting the BW, you're forced to bring a less than optimal mech if you are bringing 3 Whammy's. The 3rd and 4th 'Hoppers are better than than the 3rd c-bill Whammy)

Dakka Widows are fairly slow, too. They are undeniably effective. I think they're better in defense than offense, because you won't have to run around quite as much. For a single set of mechs that can be purposed for all kinds offense and defense drops, I'd say 'Hoppers. Then again, you'll probably curse me for not having dakka on hot maps regardless of whether it's offense or defense.

That said, the Whammys are solid mechs. The best Whammy and 'Hopper builds all need XLs anyway, so it's not like either will be much cheaper to kit out. The Whammys give you some variety because only one is a laser boat.

I'd say pick what you'll enjoy most, from the meta options available, then I'd tell you that I enjoy Whammys but prefer 'Hoppers for FP.

Happy 'Mechin'!

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

I'd start with the Hoppers, too, because of having more versatility with JJs, then Hammers after that. At the point when PGI moves us over to the new skill trees, then you can scoop up a Jester if it's still viable and not have to worry about leveling up 2 other Catapults in the process...you can just level up the Jester on its own. Same logic can apply to any other chassis on the list where only one variant is on the preferred list.

[LordLeto]

Been having fun getting the GHR-5P ready and was looking at the 5H next. The build that is listed has a extra ton and a half of weight to spare in the mech lab with the Armor values listed however. Might be a bug, but would you opt for more armor or a bigger engine?

[Jarl Dane]

bigger engine

[Jarl Dane]

With the weight limited eased Black Knights are a thing again.

[mikerso]

Mech The Dane, on 14 December 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:

With the weight limited eased Black Knights are a thing again.

Yay cause I bought resistance 2 at thanksgiving

[goatreich]

Right now my deck is 3 QD and a BLM-1G . Although one of the QD is the short range one and I don't do so great with it now that QP maps are used.

[Jarl Dane]

QP maps... I think running a Battlemaster in the first drop and a Black Knight in the 2nd on a non-hot maps is pretty solid..

[Bud Crue]

Using the design guide and the comments above...Unless you folks have a better Idea: For Friday CW night, I was thinking a BK, 2GH, and the meta Enforcer (though I prefer a Crab with a JJ and 3LPL, I defer to your expertise).

For hot maps have you given any thought to using Maulers for first drop or is the poke-a-bear threat too much of a threat to risk something that slow?

[Jarl Dane]

Mauler works on QP hot maps, but only on defense in Invasion Hot maps.

BK, 2GH and Enforcer is solid. I think switching in that crab for the enforcer wouldn't hurt, assuming you feel really comfortable in the crab.

[Sjorpha]

In MJ12 the two most popular mechs by far are Battlemaster 2C and Warhammer 6D.

A very solid pulsevomit Dropdeck is Battlemaster2C, Warhammer6D, Warhammer6D, locust 1E.

[goatreich]

After a more than dozen drops, I feel that right now we need 3 heavier mechs and a light mech.
Conquest games are can be won by having 3-4 lights per drop capping and wolfpacking while the rest of the team hangs to the cap points.
Skirmish and assault games are won or lost in the first two drops so, we need 2 strong assault/heavy mechs that can take and deal damage in the aformentioned first two drops.
Sometimes the timer even runs out before the 4th drop comes so It's really good to have 3 strong mechs to count on.

Now that Clan tonnage was dropped again to 240 tons we have to capitalise on the 25 ton difference.

[Starbomber109]

My current Grasshopper looks like this GHR-5P the small laser pushes the other lasers to the high mounts on the right, and I put the CT laser into the left torso to peak around corners better. Just a thought, the other way works I was just looking at the metamechs guide and I realized what Gman was doing. I'm using a 330 engine because I have a spare one (for some reason, maybe it used to be in a quickdraw? I don't remember)

My next purchase is a 5H, and then I should be able to run QD and GH as a comfortable laser deck. I still don't really have a good hot deck though :/ but the QDs I own do decently well on hot maps.

[bravoxious]

RKA scrub mech builds. Not the mechs!. Its the pilots behind the mechs.

[Jarl Dane]

bravoxious, on 20 December 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

RKA scrub mech builds. Not the mechs!. Its the pilots behind the mechs.

There is little we can do about the pilots.
But what we can do is help them get in a good mech with a good build.

[Tarogato]

LordLeto, on 13 December 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Been having fun getting the GHR-5P ready and was looking at the 5H next. The build that is listed has a extra ton and a half of weight to spare in the mech lab with the Armor values listed however. Might be a bug, but would you opt for more armor or a bigger engine?

The GHR-5H has armour quirks.

Smurfy builds do not account for armour quirks, they are the just raw amount of armour that you *add* to each component. If you look at the components of your GHR-5H while in game, you'll see it has a green +12 on the legs and +9 on the arms. Add those armour values to your components and the discrepancy should be reconciled.

[Windscape]

Sjorpha, on 15 December 2016 - 05:31 PM, said:

In MJ12 the two most popular mechs by far are Battlemaster 2C and Warhammer 6D.

A very solid pulsevomit Dropdeck is Battlemaster2C, Warhammer6D, Warhammer6D, locust 1E.

i like that dropdeck. I think Ill try it with grasshopper 5H's instead once I level up my battlemasters

[Sjorpha]

Windscape, on 24 December 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

i like that dropdeck. I think Ill try it with grasshopper 5H's instead once I level up my battlemasters

Replacing one Warhammer with a grasshopper is very solid.

Edited by Sjorpha, 24 December 2016 - 07:03 PM.

[Tarogato]

I just bought Warhammers. I haven't finished leveling them, so I'll reserve final judgement for later, but just based on my experiences with it so far, I'm failing to understand what is so great about it.


WHM-6D (3LPL + 4ML)
Identical build as the Grasshopper, but lacking jumpjets and having larger torsos. I just can't justify playing this build. The mounts aren't higher than the Grasshopper, it doesn't get significantly better quirks, and it really struggles to win trades against clan mechs. The range is too short (~330m optimum range), and the alpha is too low (53, while popular clan vomit builds start at 54 and go up from there). Once I have this mech leveled up, I'll give it a go with 3LPL + 6ML and see if that's any more justifiable. Logic being go big or go home.

Also this is lacking in shield arms ---- the WHM arms can shield a little, but not nearly as effectively as the GHR. With the GHR I can put max armour on my arms and force enemies to chew through every point before I go down. With the WHM, I tend to die before losing my arms.


WHM-6R (2x LB10 + 4-6ML)
LB10 are only truly effective inside 200m (possibly 250m against larger mechs). It was suggested to me to try a build with 4MPL, but I went for medium lasers and extra heatsinks instead, but was still disappointed with the heat performance. I'll have to judge this properly after I've elited it, but as it stands I just don't see this mech putting out enough DPS in its optimal engagement range to be justifiable. Especially considering it must run an XL, and it almost certainly must brawl.


WHM-6R (2x UAC5 + 4-6ML)
When the LB10 weren't all they were cracked up to be, I gave this a go. I've had people suggest that I should try 2LPL instead, or give the ol' 2PPC a go, but my actual problem with this build was not the energy weapons, but the UAC5s themselves. They just jam too much. The DPS is not reliable, and the alpha damage is very low. I can't justify running this mech against clans.



I'll finish leveling these mechs out and giving them the old college try, but I have a feeling I'm going to stick with my Grasshoppers in the end. The jumpjets, slimmer hitboxes, and larger shield arms are really what makes the Grasshoppers good mechs. If you're going to play a ground-bound mech like the Warhammer, it better damned-well do something phenomenal, and the Whammies just don't for me so far. Of course then again, maybe I'm just so used to clan mechs that I've lost track of how terrible IS mechs are to play in the current meta.

Edited by Tarogato, 24 December 2016 - 11:28 PM.

[4EVR]

Those are some interesting observation, Tarogato, to me in particular because in my experience the WHM-6D is the single most effective IS mech I have. I should give the Grasshopper another chance. Although maybe you should give the 6D another chance as well. As long as we're in the 3-to-master era, WHMs are also a lot more versatile, even if just to add variety to the steady stream of laser vomit. Stuff like double Gauss + MLs, double AC10s + MLs, UAC5s + either LPLs or PPCs, and pure dakka.

Agreed on clan laser vomit > IS laser vomit. Better range, better alpha. IS has better twist, turn and acceleration agility, and of course defensive quirks, but everything else is worse or close to parity.

One reason why I liked (the original, simple) ED mechanic is because it made IS LL boating more viable. Right now the 550ms or so real world exposure penalty is hard for IS LL mechs to overcome. The LL isn't good enough against the Clan LPL+ERML combo to begin with, so punishing it with ghost heat just adds insult to injury. I guess the LL build is quite a bit better on the Grasshopper because of the slimmer profile. (So far I haven't managed to get good results with the 5xLL WHM fit.)

MPLs suck. Compared to Clan SPLs and ERSLs, they have extra range, similar heat efficiency. But at two or four times the tonnage requirement, they don't have nearly enough punch or range to be worth it.

Personally, I used to strongly prefer JJs on all my mechs, but these days I don't care very much either way. The main exceptions are mostly clan mechs, especially the poptarts. On most maps there are only a few high spots where JJs really come in handy. Those usually accommodate only a few mechs anyway. Of course a strong argument can be made based on mobility or surprise tactics on maps like Canyon Network. But most of the time that doesn't seem to matter, although maybe that's because teams choose not to employ that style. (E.g. you don't need JJs to trade on top, brawl down low, or push around theta.)

Edited by 4EVR, 26 December 2016 - 09:14 PM.