62 replies to this topic

[Musashi Alexander]

Hate to negative and variety is to be welcomed... but this looks awful. How they thought this would work without re-spawning is beyond me.

[Tickdoff Tank]

I guess I am one of the only people that loathes the idea of "respawns." You should have 1 mech, and when you die in it, you are done for that match, like we have now. I (seriously) do not understand why anyone would want a game with respawns, it takes all the fun out of a game. That is why I do not do CW, can't stand the idea of getting a new mech after I lost one, it just is not right.

I know I am in the minority here, but if they add in more modes with respawns I will most likely leave, and I do no want t do that.

[Mystere]

meteorol, on 04 March 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Because respawns are not allowed in the realm of neckbearded grognards.
Hence we will continue to play gamemodes that crucially need respawns to be anything but TDM without respawns. Enjoy your TDM.

The trick is to put lipstick by calling them "reinforcements" and not "respawns". It's all in the "packaging".

[Damocles]

needs respawns.

Tug of war where you just cut the rope off (killing the other team) and wait is ....not tug of war

edit: +thoughts

30 second respawn. Each generator destroyed = +30 sec to respawn timers.


+give us our entire mechbay to pick from as the game goes on. If you run out of mechs, trials are infinite.

+alternative, 12 mech dropdeck arranged in groups of 4.
Each generator destroyed wipes a lance from availability.

Edited by Damocles, 04 March 2016 - 05:02 PM.

[Musashi Alexander]

Tickdoff Tank, on 04 March 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

I guess I am one of the only people that loathes the idea of "respawns." You should have 1 mech, and when you die in it, you are done for that match, like we have now. I (seriously) do not understand why anyone would want a game with respawns, it takes all the fun out of a game. That is why I do not do CW, can't stand the idea of getting a new mech after I lost one, it just is not right.

I know I am in the minority here, but if they add in more modes with respawns I will most likely leave, and I do no want t do that.

Without re-spawns this will be a 3 minute bloodbath followed by 5 minutes of pointless waiting. Or else it will be a 10 minute cagey skirmish match with the obligatory 5 minutes of waiting. They couldn't even stand to sit there themselves and wait 4 more minutes for the game to end. I guess we can alt-tab and web browse.

I'm happy to not have re-spawns, but create a game mode that can work without it.

Edited by Musashi Alexander, 04 March 2016 - 04:44 PM.

[Mystere]

Saint Scarlett Johan, on 04 March 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

So many issues in this game could be solved by proper maps and modes set up for respawns.

Or by adding asymmetry. Not all game modes need to be balanced 12v12, dang it!

Edited by Mystere, 04 March 2016 - 04:42 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Spawnsalot, on 04 March 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

Oh good grief. This is just Skirmish with everyone firing into an 800m cricle.

You want to make some interesting game modes? Here's a start:

• Add respawns. Just do it. Preserve a last team standing mode with one life if you want.
  
• Everyone has a 'Loadout' of 4-5 'mechs they set up in the Mechlab before any match.
  
• Players in matches respawn in timed waves.
  
• Players get to choose a 'mech from their Loadout each respawn.

• Assault win condition changed to force attackers to destroy gates to access cap zone courtyard. Assault is plagued with far less people complaining about fast caps as they wont be focused so much on killing the enemy team to win as a concerted push to the enemy base is required for a win instead. More objective play *and* more fighting.
  
• Increase ticket count in Conquest. Each point will now have an element of back-and-forth for control as killing everyone is again no longer the quick way to win. Again, more objective play *and* more fighting.
  
• Skirmish is now first team to X kills.
  
• Increase capture timer slightly in Domination and remove timer stop on being shot at. Players now forced to fight for control and then hold the position against a counter-attack. You now have an interesting back-and-forth instead of just killing 12 'mechs then standing around for 3 minutes.
  
• *New game mode* Really large map. Really, really *large* map. Random objectives at random spots on the map. Possibly more than one objective active at a time. First team to complete X amount of objectives wins. Objective can include: a mini-Skirmish/Conquest/Domination match, escort/destroy a rescue convoy to crashed transport and the destroyit/escort it off map, kill/defend a specific member of the team, defend/destroy an armed dropship, capture an item and return it to a point on the map/stop the capture of the item.

There. It's not perfect but it's a start.

A lot of this is "Make pubs more like CW"... which I kind of approve of. I think a drop deck of 4 mechs should always be available to choose from in any pub match, even if we stick to just single-elimination. Instead of a random assortment of mechs with random builds all vaguely centered on meta, you'd see mechs tailor-made for specific map and gameplay requirements. If I can choose my mech to coincide with what works for me on the specific map and game mode I've landed on, It'd be a lot better.

I've always believed that there should be some synergy between what you see in pubs and what you see in CW. CW should basically just be an expansion on pugs, but expanding the scale and giving context to the fights - and obviously having a few exclusive game modes and concepts.

If "respawns" ever become a thing for normal modes, and I think this should apply to CW too, teams should get a bonus for the number of mechs left alive/in reserve once the match is done.

Also, why can't we get a sort of "rush" mode a la Battlefield. You'd need more limited scope for that mode than in Battlefield, and obviously this requires respawns... and it's bound to be a longer match... so it's likely more of a CW-style mode... but still. At least Rush has actual meaning for objectives. You don't fight get the objective, you don't move on, you can't win. Asymmetrical gameplay at its best.

And for both pubs and CW... no more game modes that revolve around standing in one place for long periods of time (or just killing all the enemies so you can do that in peace). Mechs are made to blow stuff up. Why can't we just have an Invasion-mode equivalent for pubs? Or other attack/defend game modes like that. How about escort missions once we get AI? Maybe involve it escorting a convoy of vehicles to a drop zone. One team escorts, one team attacks. Probably better with respawns though.

[Mister Blastman]

Shouldn't it be counting DOWN and not up? I think the idea is neat... but... let's get it right okay?

[Alistair Winter]

Shalune, on 04 March 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

Star Conflict has an amazing example of how to do a very simple King of the Hill mode that's still dynamic. At known and announced intervals the hill is moved to a new, known location across the map. A team that can't find a good engage on the current hill can go and set up at the next.

Yep, I've mentioned that before too, if someone cared to listen. Star Conflict has several dynamic game modes, all of them should translate very well to MWO. Even the new EA Star Wars game, which was slaughtered by critics, has a similar dynamic game mode, where pods would drop from orbit at different locations on the map, and both teams would rush to capture each one first.

[Mister Blastman]

The circle also needs to be half as big to entice folks to get closer.

[sycocys]

You guys think spawn camping/turtleing in CW sucks? Try it on Frozen City or Caustic where the dropships will drop you anytime you leave your own spawn area. Or a few of the other maps where you can be locked into your spawn zone by only a few mechs that have a good terrain advantage.

--edit. And on nearly every single quick map but polar the drop ships will give away your position even if you are in cover because they see right through it and will fire a laser at you regardless if it can hit your or not. Aim bot ftw.

Re-spawning is a terrible mechanic in anything but a fast paced twitch shooter - which MWo pretty decidedly is not and took good steps to move away from that bit of generic-ness it was building towards with the big re-balance..

Edited by sycocys, 05 March 2016 - 12:21 AM.

[Ace Selin]

The new solo/group map looks interesting at least and look forward to playing on it.

[Anjian]

Shalune, on 04 March 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:

Unless you mean 'having a king of the hill mode' then I'd argue it objectively is bad.

- Capping is only possible when no enemies are in a giant circle AND you have not taken damage in the passed 5 seconds
- No competent opposing team is going to let this happen for more than several seconds unless they're already losing on kills

- The side objectives take away from the opponent's cap time and do nothing to your own.
- So the only reason a team ahead on cap would care about this is if they are not ahead on kills. That means the opponent -is- ahead on kills and chose not to just press the advantage... Again, no competent team would make that choice.

What you end up with is a game mode that only serves to offer a specific focal point to team deathmatch. Now objective game modes in competitive action games serve 2 purposes:

(1) Offer an alternative victory condition and potential comeback mechanic for a team behind in combat
(2) By virtue of the first point: they implicitly apply additional rules to combat that significantly change how you play.

Well (1) is off the table. As I outlined above you win this objective -by- killing the enemy, not as an alternative to it. So how about (2)? Well there might be something to this at least except that the cap area is both static, and huge making it both predictable and very generous. The only result on gameplay is that fights will necessarily revolve around, if not always in the cap.

But how will fights play out? However fights always play out in a given meta. Your goal to win by elimination? Shoot the enemy team. Your goal to prevent a loss on the objective? Shoot the enemy team.

The actions to reach each victory condition should not be the same.


Star Conflict has an amazing example of how to do a very simple King of the Hill mode that's still dynamic. At known and announced intervals the hill is moved to a new, known location across the map. A team that can't find a good engage on the current hill can go and set up at the next.

Isn't Star Conflict the game they called War Thunder in space (because they are from the same makers).

Actually the game mode being described is quite familiar for War Thunder players, using tanks that is.

Also War Thunder has strong comeback mechanics, and that frequently happens in my experience.

I like to see these modes and mechanics on MWO as well.

MWO is much more suited to a respawn mechanic like you see in War Thunder as opposed to being played like World of Tanks in two legs.

Edited by Anjian, 05 March 2016 - 02:05 AM.

[Davegt27]

I am thinking not many people actually played king of the hill when they were kids

Like dodge ball the teachers outlawed the game



I predict a lot of crying

[MysticLink]

Are you serious killing enemies won't be enough? Even for Conquest.

Edited by MysticLink, 05 March 2016 - 03:27 AM.

[Glaucon]

Do they really think standing in a box after the enemy team is dead for 5 minutes is good gameplay? Are you kidding?
I hope some other developer pick up the MW title...

[RedDragon]

Straight on par for PGI. Learning from past mistakes? Who needs that!

[Johnny Z]

So far this topic is all opinions on a game mode no one here has tried yet. I cant see if its fun or not until i try it.

A new map is a good thing for sure.

Edited by Johnny Z, 05 March 2016 - 03:52 AM.

[kesuga7]

I read the title as a bsdm porn video

[Scanz]

i see it again like all event happen in center of the map - nothing interesting and new

Edited by Scanz, 05 March 2016 - 04:21 AM.