168 replies to this topic

[Cyborne Elemental]

It doesn't matter what light, it doesn't matter what size, it doesn't matter how good or bad the hitbox is.

Once anything is moving faster than 120 kph in game, the hitreg goes out the window, and gets worse the faster it goes past 120.

[MrMadguy]

Quantization error table: speed (kph) - speed (mps) - meters per frame quantization error (meters)
10 - 2.78 - 0.09
20 - 5.56 - 0.19
30 - 8.33 - 0.28
40 - 11.11 - 0.37
50 - 13.89 - 0.46
60 - 16.67 - 0.56
70 - 19.44 - 0.65
80 - 22.22 - 0.74
90 - 25.00 - 0.83
100 - 27.78 - 0.93
110 - 30.56 - 1.02
120 - 33.33 - 1.11
130 - 36.11 - 1.20
140 - 38.89 - 1.30
150 - 41.67 - 1.39
160 - 44.44 - 1.48
170 - 47.22 - 1.57
180 - 50.00 - 1.67
190 - 52.78 - 1.76
200 - 55.56 - 1.85

You should know, that if size of target is smaller then quantization error, then target can become ghost - i.e. projectiles may start passing through it.

And this is 'Mech position quantization error only - there are also other quantization errors, like projectile position quantization error, twist angle quantization error, etc. So if you try to implement something, your servers can't handle - then it's completely your fault. The fact, that we have so small Lights and so high speed caps - is intentional conscious implementation of flawed hit reg. And it's we, who have to suffer from it.

Edited by MrMadguy, 06 March 2016 - 08:55 AM.

[4rcs1ne]

Mister D, on 06 March 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

It doesn't matter what light, it doesn't matter what size, it doesn't matter how good or bad the hitbox is.

Once anything is moving faster than 120 kph in game, the hitreg goes out the window, and gets worse the faster it goes past 120.

I agree with this . However, bad hitreg doesn't help the kitfox or panther (<120kph) and to a certain extent the jenner. (Insanely easy to hit due to profile)

[MrMadguy]

Matt2496, on 06 March 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

I agree with this . However, bad hitreg doesn't help the kitfox or panther (<120kph) and to a certain extent the jenner. (Insanely easy to hit due to profile)

It's all about speed vs horizontal size of hitboxes. More "thin" Lights, like Arctic Cheater, Spider and Firestarter - are more affected by this problem.

[SplashDown]

MrMadguy, on 06 March 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

It's all about speed vs horizontal size of hitboxes. More "thin" Lights, like Arctic Cheater, Spider and Firestarter - are more affected by this problem.

Thats funny cuz i play cheeto allmost all day every day and i get hit at top speed with no problems from compitent pilots..perhaps if you focused on practise and training as much as you do whinning you may..one day...be able to hit me too?

http://fukung.net/v/...430ff16a08a.gif

Edited by SplashDown, 06 March 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[jjm1]

I love it when a splat jenner bee-lines towards the team and somehow survives a barrage that would flatten an Atlas in 3 seconds.

[MauttyKoray]

Anakha, on 05 March 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

PGI needs to fix the light mech hit registration it seems to have gotten worse. If they can't they need to lower the speed cap to a level that the game can handle. Right now light mechs are out tanking assault mechs with the damage they can absorb and take next to no damage unless they are standing completely still. A light mech should be able to dance back and forth in front of another mech and take no damage its just gotten rediculous. Need to fix it asap.

Not an issue - reason: I play lights, and I've shot them too.

Hitting a light in a light is also far easier than hitting a light in something slow like an assault. As an Assault a light looks visually smaller and a harder target to hit than it would if you were in a light. Its easier to stray your lasers over multiple hitboxes or miss entirely (legs especially since they're moving in relation to the mech).

[LordNothing]

people who think lights are easy to kill are thinking wrong. they are usually the 6 guys chasing a jenner and failing miserably at killing it. meanwhile the guy with the specialized light hunter build cant maneuver because there is a bunch of idiots in the way. and this all takes place while the rest of the team gets picked off by the enemy's heavy and assault assets.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 March 2016 - 03:37 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Something to keep in mind in re speed and hit reg. A light moving like lightning right next to you is near impossible to hit, yes.
Same mech, moving at same speed, but 600m away is significantly easier to hit. Just something to consider in the "hit reg is affected by speed" discussion.

[Cabusha]

Kaisha, on 05 March 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

I have a 6-core i7 with gtx970 running mid 20's ping (ie. my system/lag is fine), and there is a problem with hit regs on lights. There have been many times I've hit them dead center and had zero damage register, other times I barely nick them and they blow apart. If bugs are the only thing keeping them alive then fix the bugs and buff the mechs. Its not soley a player skill or hardware/network issues; as the repeated 'git gud'/'bad ping' arguments have stated.

To be fair. This same behavior happens again all mechs of all classes. I've drilled DireWolves that were cherry red CT, and had the game go "nope, didn't happen.". The most recent was drilling a BLR in the RT-Rear, TWICE, with a HBK-4P, and 0 damage registered. I have a 150 ping and while the majority of the time, hit reg is just fine, on occasion it will give you the finger.

[Wolfways]

SplashDown, on 06 March 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Thats funny cuz i play cheeto allmost all day every day and i get hit at top speed with no problems from compitent pilots..perhaps if you focused on practise and training as much as you do whinning you may..one day...be able to hit me too?

http://fukung.net/v/...430ff16a08a.gif

Maybe you get hit because you're not a competent light pilot

Also, the different chassis matter a lot. Playing a ACH feels like god-like survivability compared to playing a RVN.

[Jeffrey Wilder]

It's the lag.

Been in some games where my NARC will only register after 2 or 3 seconds after the missile connects. That's obviously a PING problem.

[sycocys]

They can lower my lights top speed, just as soon as they remove alpha strikes from the game.

[Tarogato]

Kaisha, on 05 March 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

I have a 6-core i7 with gtx970 running mid 20's ping (ie. my system/lag is fine), and there is a problem with hit regs on lights. There have been many times I've hit them dead center and had zero damage register, other times I barely nick them and they blow apart. If bugs are the only thing keeping them alive then fix the bugs and buff the mechs. Its not soley a player skill or hardware/network issues; as the repeated 'git gud'/'bad ping' arguments have stated.

dario03, on 05 March 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

I have the same thing happen with all mechs. Computer isn't as good but its a 4core i7 at 4.4ghz, 7870, ~40 ping and all but 2 settings are set to low.
The other day I Put 15 lpl into a ct yellow structure atlas and it didn't die. They weren't all perfect hits but it was only about 100m away and he barely moved so I would say 12lpl would be fair but even if only half of the shots went ct he should of been dead. And not to long ago had a match where I put 20 plus csl shots into a blood red ct Mauler before he died.
Its not a light mech issue, its random hsr/hitreg issues.

nehebkau, on 05 March 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

There are many times where I have shot an assault dead-center with a full alpha and not have it register. Fix the hit reg on assaults as well.

Wolfways, on 05 March 2016 - 08:00 PM, said:

Here's something to think about.

Put two pc's side by side and spectate the same mech on both of them.
One pc will show that the mech being spectated has a red ct and orange st's and 80AC rounds left, and is firing lasers on target at a mech with yellow ct and four working weapons.
The other pc will show that the mech being spectated has an orange ct and red st's and 50AC rounds left, and is firing to the right of the target which has an orange ct and only 2 working weapons left.

How confident are you that what you see on your screen in your own mech is what is really there?

Note: A couple of weeks ago I ran after a disarmed (i.e, all weapons red and no arms on the paperdoll) Direwolf in my Raven. I ran up behind him and started firing. He slowly turned, and just as I noticed that he did still have his right arm he fired. Gauss and LPL straight through my ct killing me.

Believe your HUD at your own risk.

El Bandito, on 05 March 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

With the coming of the new alpha restricting system, it is the best time to increase Light mech size by a tad. Now if role warfare is properly rewarded, then it will be perfect.



Light mech hit-reg is still an issue. Your eyes lack pupils, it seems.

Mister Blastman, on 06 March 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

Well, to be fair I had lasers and PPCs passing through assault 'mechs last night doing no damage at all...

Mister D, on 06 March 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

Monpax and I tested this for about an hour in private matches, running in straight lines mech vs mech matched speed.

Any mech moving faster than 120kph starts to have warped and shrunken hitboxes, and the faster you start moving beyond 120, damage is reduced.

We tried it on the flat lowgrounds of Frozen city, with Commando, Spider, ACH, Wolfhound. every single one of them we set to move fast, damage barely registered on.

It was taking 200 damage worth of medlas to deal 30 damage to get through armor at full speed, seem silly?
because it is.

There is something pretty messed up with how the netcode is handling these high speeds and keeping correct damage calc.

Cabusha, on 06 March 2016 - 05:03 PM, said:

To be fair. This same behavior happens again all mechs of all classes. I've drilled DireWolves that were cherry red CT, and had the game go "nope, didn't happen.". The most recent was drilling a BLR in the RT-Rear, TWICE, with a HBK-4P, and 0 damage registered. I have a 150 ping and while the majority of the time, hit reg is just fine, on occasion it will give you the finger.

-----> https://obsproject.com/download#mp

Merry Christmas. Now you can all actually show PGI what you're seeing. If you can't show them, it doesn't exist. Record every match.

No, you're not allowed to complain about "muh frameratez!" because I play on a fu**** laptop that can't get 30fps most of the time. You have no excuse, go start recording.

MrMadguy, on 06 March 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

It's ok to be small and fast, but only till the moment, when you bring 42 firepower with 450m range. Currently you can double the amount of your heatsinks for free. And this is wrong. If you want to bring such an amount of firepower - you should sacrifice something. Your engine for example. Or armor. Best way to force players to do it - to nerf engine DHS, so they'll have to equip external ones instead, i.e. they'll need to sacrifice slots/tonnage/survivability. Also it's logical, that 'Mech, that can bring more firepower and armor - should be bigger, cuz weapons and armor have some constant "density". It's just wrong, when Arctic Cheater can bring the same firepower, as my Firebrand, while being much smaller, faster and almost invulnerable.
-> video

Well, this is amusing. First you say this build is terrible because it can't support a team. Now you're using it as an example of something so powerful that lights shouldn't even be allowed to do it. So which is it?

[Zolaz]

If your mech is going faster than 100 kph or if you are getting hit with multiple attacks at the same time a lot of the damage seems to mystically disappear. Unless it is Streaks those seem to always hit.

[MrMadguy]

Zolaz, on 07 March 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

If your mech is going faster than 100 kph or if you are getting hit with multiple attacks at the same time a lot of the damage seems to mystically disappear. Unless it is Streaks those seem to always hit.

You should distinguish real hitreg problems from convergence problems. Any weapons, that require leading - have their convergence killed, when shotting Lights, thus their dmg spread is increased. This won't be solved, till some kind of "converge on current target" feature won't be implemented. What you should do now: is not to hurry to shoot immediately and try to hit Light, when he moves towards you or stops. High Alpha/Speed weapons, like Gauss, also help much. Never try to hit flying Light. Despite of this has never really helped me (dmg isn't registered anyway, so it's just a waste of time - there is bigger chances to kill Light, if you aim at his torso), it's also suggested to aim at his legs, cuz they're the parts of Light, that are closest to ground, where convergence should be the best.

Real hitreg problems - is when you shoot strait into Light's face and dmg doesn't register. Via lasers for example. Every one of us experienced this situation many times: Light circling around you, but you have enough twist speed to track him - you put one laser Alpha into his face right after another, so this amount of damage could have drilled 10 Atlases already, but nope - Light's armor isn't even orange. And if in the past it was ping, that could be blamed, today with perfect ping there is nothing to blame, but server hitreg itself.

Edited by MrMadguy, 07 March 2016 - 03:26 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

sycocys, on 06 March 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

They can lower my lights top speed, just as soon as they remove alpha strikes from the game.

Do you mean Alpha strikes, or do you mean group fire? If you mean group fire*** then what should be the limit? Chain fire only? 2 weapons? how much damage? At what range? Does it matter if it spread vs pin point?

See, its not as easy as saying 'Stop da alphastrikes piggy'

***which you do, because alpha strike is defined as meaning 'all weapons on the mech' and any restrictions on that can easily be bypassed by adding a single MG or SL that you never fire.

[MrMadguy]

sycocys, on 06 March 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

They can lower my lights top speed, just as soon as they remove alpha strikes from the game.

Lights have never been supposed to facetank Assaults, sorry. If you got used to "Light brawling" so much - then it's only your problems. This happened only as side effect of servers being incapable to handle such small size/high speed and PGI refusing to fix it some way - via implementing real or virtual (via increasing Lights' hit boxes to compensate quantization errors) auto aim.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Why do Clan Fanboys think you can have a video game without balance? Currently lights are 5% of mechs queing. If anything they need buffs. Even if it seems silly that a 25 ton can solo a 100 ton that is the only way for the game to be balanced.

The problem is making lights playable for the Underhive makes them OP for skilled players.

[SplashDown]

MechWarrior5152251, on 07 March 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

Why do Clan Fanboys think you can have a video game without balance? Currently lights are 5% of mechs queing. If anything they need buffs. Even if it seems silly that a 25 ton can solo a 100 ton that is the only way for the game to be balanced.

The problem is making lights playable for the Underhive makes them OP for skilled players.

Lights are not OP in the hands of skilled players..they are just OP to you becuz you cant hit them..only other skilled players can.

http://fukung.net/v/...430ff16a08a.gif

Edited by SplashDown, 07 March 2016 - 05:12 AM.