168 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

MrMadguy, on 07 March 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Usually something like that happens:

Every large laser is 9dmg and Firestarter has about LA+RA+LT+RT+ST 100 front armor total (in case of more even distribution, Light pilots usually prefer) - about 20 armor per part. So one 3xLL Alpha can core every part of Firestarter. Yeah, some shots were definitely partial - those, that happened before Firestarter overheated for example. But others, that were accurate enough - definitely not enough dmg registered. For example a lots of 100% damage at the beginning of the fights (right after hugging) obviously haven't registered on Firestarter's STs. Same happened at the end of the fight - dmg registers of arms, but not STs.

That atlas player couldn't aim for shjt. If you went through frame by frame and counted the damage that was on target, I'm willing to bet it would add up very close to what is reflected on the paper doll. I'll give you a hint - it seems like the large laser duration lasts about 38 frames, so we're talking 0.2368 damage per frame per laser. Now count the frames and where they hit and add up all the damage to see what was actually going on. (you can use this to see the %remainingHP per component on the paperdoll if you like: http://i.imgur.com/Y9ozzpO.png )

[Lugh]

sycocys, on 07 March 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

I want knockdowns back too - but I also am willing to admit that I was a part of the reason it got removed.

Full speed Commando tackles. And if my team was dead, you could literally out dance 4-5 mechs brawling because they didn't want to trip.

See here. I thought for sure it was me and all the dragon bowling I did. It was a game changer. Because I could knockdown lockdown 2+ opponents while engaging a third.
But the reality is the next patch following this match is what it was

The Goons tormenting paul

Edited by Lugh, 07 March 2016 - 12:49 PM.

[mogs01gt]

Tarogato, on 07 March 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

That atlas player couldn't aim for shjt. If you went through frame by frame and counted the damage that was on target, I'm willing to bet it would add up very close to what is reflected on the paper doll. I'll give you a hint - it seems like the large laser duration lasts about 38 frames, so we're talking 0.2368 damage per frame per laser. Now count the frames and where they hit and add up all the damage to see what was actually going on. (you can use this to see the %remainingHP per component on the paperdoll if you like: http://i.imgur.com/Y9ozzpO.png )

********. Watch the video again and the pilot hit multiple shots on components that never registered damage yet the target reticle went red.

[JC Daxion]

nehebkau, on 05 March 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

5. YOU AREN'T SHOOTING FOR THE LEGS!

The people who complain about light hitreg obviously don't play them very often.

Honestly, i find shooting lights in the torso a much better option most of the time verse good pilots. It's so much easier to remove an arm, or pop a side torso on them than hit the legs of a good pilot.

If i am in a fast mech, i can chase and go for the legs, but slower mechs, i almost always choose the far easier to hit torso..

Even Spreading damage, doesn't take long to toast any light.. Just one shot, and they are cherry and ready to pop..

[Jables McBarty]

SQW, on 05 March 2016 - 05:17 PM, said:

Anyone cursing lights are those heavies or assaults that got caught out with pants around leg.

Guess who's fault that is?

There should be a tea-bag animation if a light ever kills an assault 1v1 and there's no mech within 300m just to reinforce the humiliation.

Or this: http://33.media.tumb...pi6wo4_1280.gif

MrMadguy, on 07 March 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

Lights have never been supposed to facetank Assaults, sorry. If you got used to "Light brawling" so much - then it's only your problems. This happened only as side effect of servers being incapable to handle such small size/high speed and PGI refusing to fix it some way - via implementing real or virtual (via increasing Lights' hit boxes to compensate quantization errors) auto aim.

Facetank assaults lol. Ok, I'll humor you: If lights can't "brawl" (by which I assume you mean circle slow 100 ton assaults and hit them in the back), then what place do they have in MWO?

[Tarogato]

mogs01gt, on 07 March 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

********. Watch the video again and the pilot hit multiple shots on components that never registered damage yet the target reticle went red.

I watched it at 0.25x speed. I saw the damage go where the pilot put it. A lot of damage missed entirely, and the rest of it was spread like melted butter except for that one shutdown alpha.

Define: "hit multiple shots on components". You mean... "he was on target for three frames here and four frames here"? Because that's not a lot of damage.

[mogs01gt]

Tarogato, on 07 March 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

I watched it at 0.25x speed. I saw the damage go where the pilot put it. A lot of damage missed entirely, and the rest of it was spread like melted butter except for that one shutdown alpha.

Define: "hit multiple shots on components". You mean... "he was on target for three frames here and four frames here"? Because that's not a lot of damage.

barely any damage missed, we'll say 50 dmg missed. That still leaves almost 100-150 damage that spread over the mech. That is more than enough damage to strip armor.

[Tarogato]

mogs01gt, on 07 March 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

barely any damage missed, we'll say 50 dmg missed. That still leaves almost 100-150 damage that spread over the mech. That is more than enough damage to strip armor.

Last time I did a frame-by-frame analysis of somebody's "hitreg" video, I wasted an hour of my life to confirm that hitreg was working as intended and nothing was even wonky at all ----> http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4972338

Do you really want me to do it again?

Next time somebody posts a video claiming that hitreg is off, I hope to god they can actually aim and land shots on target instead of the ridiculous bukkakе-beams in that atlas video.

Edited by Tarogato, 07 March 2016 - 01:29 PM.

[mogs01gt]

Tarogato, on 07 March 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

Last time I did a frame-by-frame analysis of somebody's "hitreg" video, I wasted an hour of my life to confirm that hitreg was working as intended and nothing was even wonky at all ----> http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4972338
Do you really want me to do it again?
Next time somebody posts a video claiming that hitreg is off, I hope to god they can actually aim and land shots on target instead of the ridiculous bukkakе-beams in that atlas video.

Ok I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. My point still stands that lasers suck vs lights. ACs are king! It soo satisfying hitting a light with an ac20 and watching it go boom!

Edited by mogs01gt, 07 March 2016 - 01:33 PM.

[Tarogato]

mogs01gt, on 07 March 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

Ok I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. My point still stands that lasers suck vs lights. ACs are king! It soo satisfying hitting a light with an ac20 and watching it go boom!

And AC's are a lot easier to troubleshoot, you don't have to count the damage frame by frame, it either hit or it didn't. =D

Which in the following case, the shots went right where the player put them: right in the gaps between the arms for a complete miss, hehe:

Edited by Tarogato, 07 March 2016 - 01:36 PM.

[mogs01gt]

Tarogato, on 07 March 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

And AC's are a lot easier to troubleshoot, you don't have to count the damage frame by frame, it either hit or it didn't. =D

Which in the following case, the shots went right where the player put them: right in the gaps between the arms for a complete miss, hehe:

lol I through my headset across the room once when I was at 400m with an ac20 and watched the around fall between the crotch of a cored Twolve....

[dario03]

mogs01gt, on 07 March 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

Ok I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. My point still stands that lasers suck vs lights. ACs are king! It soo satisfying hitting a light with an ac20 and watching it go boom!

Lasers work fine against lights when you get the majority of the beam to one component. Which is why big IS ACs seem to work so well, you either hit one spot or you miss.

[Lugh]

dario03, on 07 March 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Lasers work fine against lights when you get the majority of the beam to one component. Which is why big IS ACs seem to work so well, you either hit one spot or you miss.

Honestly ALL the weapons (outside LRMs) work well against lights.

Evidence JRC IIC(0) killing other lights via legging.

More evidence Other SRM lights Oxide and Huggin (YUGE IN AMIRITE)

[Zerberus]

LRms also work just fine against lights, because most can´t outrun them anymore. In fact, the legs are actually usually the first thing to go.. There are few things more satisfying than melting a light that was dumb enough to get NARCed with LRMs

[MrMadguy]

Tarogato, on 07 March 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

That atlas player couldn't aim for shjt. If you went through frame by frame and counted the damage that was on target, I'm willing to bet it would add up very close to what is reflected on the paper doll. I'll give you a hint - it seems like the large laser duration lasts about 38 frames, so we're talking 0.2368 damage per frame per laser. Now count the frames and where they hit and add up all the damage to see what was actually going on. (you can use this to see the %remainingHP per component on the paperdoll if you like: http://i.imgur.com/Y9ozzpO.png )

Are you kidding me? There are at least 3 moments between 0:05 and 0:15, when he definitely hit Firestarters' STs, and one moment, when he hit CT and RL, for long enough period to deal more then 1dmg, but 0dmg was registered.



But nope, didn't happen:

And of course, dat precious moment at 0:37, when full 9dmg gone into Firestarter's cored CT:

Nope?

Still nope?

Right into face... But nope again?

Edited by MrMadguy, 07 March 2016 - 02:50 PM.

[Tarogato]

MrMadguy, on 07 March 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Are you kidding me? There are at least 3 moments between 0:05 and 0:15, when he definitely hit Firestarters' STs, and one moment, when he hit CT and RL, for long enough period to deal more then 1dmg, but 0dmg was registered.



But nope, didn't happen:

And of course, dat precious moment at 0:37, when full 9dmg gone into Firestarter's cored CT:

It looks like he grazed the ST, but he more likely hit the Firestarter's hand which were in the way, and registered as arm. Same with the shot at 0:37 - it actually hit the hand if you look closely - it's right there in your last screenshot there - look at where the arm hitbox is - it's blocking the CT and if you look at the paperdoll it registers as left arm.

Let's actually dissect that shot at 0:37.

Frame 0: beam hasn't started yet
Frame 1: seems to be hitting RA
2: RA
3: RA
4: RA
5: RA
6: appears to be on CT
7: CT
8: CT
9: LA
10: LA
11: LA
12: LA
13: LA
14: LA
15: LA
16: LT
17: CT
18: CT
19: CT
20: CT
21: LA (the shot is starting to drift down and is now clipping the arm because of convergence - it's a low mounted weapon)
22: LA
23: LA
24: LA
25: LA
26: LA (if it wasn't hitting LA before, it definitely is now)
27: LA
28: LA
29: Maybe LA, maybe LT, maybe CT, hard to tell
30: Maybe LT, maybe LA, hard to tell
31: LA
32: LA
33: LA
34: beam duration ends.


Let's tally:
RA: five frames
RT: zero frames
CT: seven frames, maybe eight
LT: one frame, maybe three
LA: eighteen frames, maybe twenty.

Total: 5 + 0 + 7 + 1 + 20 = 33 frames

9 damage ÷ 33 frames = 0.272727273 damage per frame.

Now apply the damage:

RA: = 1.3636 damage
RT = 0.00 damage
CT = 1.9090 damage
LT = 0.2727 damage
LA = 5.4545 damage

total those up just to check ourselves, 1.3636 + 0.0000 + 1.9090 + 0.2727 + 5.4545 = 8.9998 damage. Checks out.

---

So now the question is... can you tell when a component takes less then two points of damage? Will the paperdoll even reflect an amount that small? Will it even flash? It's such a brief graze that I'm willing to bet that even if it did register, then the HUD might not show you.

[SplashDown]

MrMadguy, on 07 March 2016 - 05:25 AM, said:

Blah blah blah. And Paladins weren't OP back in WotLK - they were so decent, just because every single player, who was playing Paladin, was uber skilled, and all other classes were played by complete noobs.

I even remember those cries: "DON'T NERF US!!! We were always THAAAAT skilled - we weren't showing it, just because we were playing overgimped class since Vanilla. And now, when it finally became fine, we can show all our infinite sill to other players. And other players are just noobs, who don't want to adapt/improve/L2P." Yeah... Where are all of them now? Playing Lights in MWO, I guess.

Sighhh dude you whine more than any-1 on the forums...you posted a video that was suposed to be you're smoking gun only to get it picked apart by players WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!.....
So plz accept that fact that you're wrong and DEAL WITH IT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-OYKd8SVrI

[Wolfways]

Jables McBarty, on 07 March 2016 - 01:15 PM, said:

Facetank assaults lol. Ok, I'll humor you: If lights can't "brawl" (by which I assume you mean circle slow 100 ton assaults and hit them in the back), then what place do they have in MWO?

If mediums can't brawl what place do they have in MWO? Oh right, they don't have a place because lights took it.

Mediums should be the fast brawlers. Lights should be strikers/harassers. I.e. never get in front of something bigger than you because it will blow you to pieces. Attack from the sides and rear.

Light defenders complain about others claiming that lights are too fast, and blame bad aim for the "light invulnerability". Of course it's not the speed that causes lights to take less damage.....
Try playing a light at the speed they are supposed to be played at, stock...like most clan lights.
I've played both. Stock speed lights are difficult to play. Upgraded lights with much higher speed are a joke to play, especially ones with JJ's, they are just easy mode.

Having said that I usually get lower damage scores than I do with other classes because I play lights like strikers/harassers so only get around 200-300 damage on average, 500+ in a good match, unlike the majority of lights who lead the match scores with 500+ damage all the time.

[GreyNovember]

Wolfways, on 07 March 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Mediums should be the fast brawlers. Lights should be strikers/harassers. I.e. never get in front of something bigger than you because it will blow you to pieces. Attack from the sides and rear.

I don't know about you, but if I run straight towards an enemy mech's front, I get blown to pieces because I was stupid enough to expose my torso directly towards all the guns. Of course this is hearsay as much as your experience is.

But I mean if your statement is true, then there would be more pilots using easymode, now wouldn't there, and not heavies?

[Baelfire]

MrMadguy, on 07 March 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Every large laser is 9dmg and Firestarter has about LA+RA+LT+RT+ST 100 front armor total (in case of more even distribution, Light pilots usually prefer) - about 20 armor per part. So one 3xLL Alpha can core every part of Firestarter.

A Firestarter has 24 points of armor in each arm, around 30 in each ST and around 40 in his CT, that are ca. 148 points of armor, not 100. With the few points of internal structure a light get it just doesn't make sense to put more than a few points in the rear, because you are dead anyway if you eat a big alpha in your back. So no, 3 Large Laser from the front will not "core every part" of a firestarter.

I doubt that most people (me included) can react fast enough to core a torso of a fast moving and evading firestarter with two or even three 3 LL salvos, even when the hitreg is absolutely perfect. The burn duration of a LL is so long, that a Light will always be able to spread the damage over several locations, especially firestarters with their tanky arms. The only Lasers that are actually good against lights are those that they tend to use themselves. After all, there is a reason why the most popular Firestarter Build uses Med Pulse Lasers and most Cheetahs use cspls, despite their weight and range limitations.

The hitreg is bad at times, i do not deny that. But that happens to all sort of Mechs, not just Lights. If it would be directly connected to speed and size of light Mechs, then fights between 2 Lights would be next to impossible, because both of them would create those problems. But that is not the case, actually one the best and fastest ways to counter a Light is another Light.

Edited by Baelfire, 08 March 2016 - 03:44 AM.