144 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Azalie, on 09 March 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

He specifically stated they were not grouped up and even stated that on one of the drops they were on opposing teams. Therefore they absolutely could not have been in a group with his son. And he then went on in a post about not knowing how to switch to group play so I believe it's safe to say he wasn't grouped up with a different bunch.

I still think on periods of low player population the "+ or - 2" tier system can become a "+ AND - 2" tier system resulting in 3rd tier players pulling a T1 into an otherwise bottom tier match or a T5 into an otherwise top tier match.


I'm not saying I specifically agree with his claims or that I disagree with them. I just agree with the line of thought that the PSR system should at least be looked at for possible bugs...or perhaps reformed slightly.

These calls for objective proof though honestly make me laugh. This is a forum for a video game on the internet...not a trial in court. I remember fondly about 12+ years ago when people were at least sometimes taken for their word.....long before "pics for it didn't happen" spread like wildfire. Boy times sure have changed.

We aren't asking for signed affidavits, just a simple screenshot. The system isn't supposed to work the way he claimed it did and the only way to get fixed if there is a problem is to have some proof that the problem exists besides hearsay. In the nearly 2000 games I've played since the system was introduced, I haven't personally seen any evidence to suggest it doesn't work as stated by the devs.

[Wintersdark]

Zerberus, on 09 March 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

I wouldn´t be so sure, I´ve also gone down on a 478 MS within less than an hour of rising with a 413, as well as gone up on less than 200 in a TAG + Narc Mistlynx... I´m pretty sure match score alone is by far not everything, I think (and dev posts would support) that it´s how you got that match score that matters more than anything.

As stated in a another thread, I´ll see if I can get some screens to illustrate my point, as I normally couldn´t care less and therefore don´t have any at this time.

Here's the thing. We've got a thread full of data supporting the known cutoff points for PSR change vs. match score, and 100% of that data collaborates; there is not [b]one single screencap[/i] showing a match score that doesn't result in score change as expected.

So, no. You may think that, but I'd bet (and pretty heavily) that you're just wrong.

People always say they got an unexpected result, but not even one single screenshot? No, I just think people are wrong.

Bilbo, on 09 March 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

We aren't asking for signed affidavits, just a simple screenshot. The system isn't supposed to work the way he claimed it did and the only way to get fixed if there is a problem is to have some proof that the problem exists besides hearsay. In the nearly 2000 games I've played since the system was introduced, I haven't personally seen any evidence to suggest it doesn't work as stated by the devs.

Exactly.

And has been charted by L Y N X here: http://mwomercs.com/...07#entry4720207

There's a lot of data, and 100% of the legit data provided supports the values shown. All of it.

At this point: have a screenshot or just STFU because you're probably wrong. Hearsay is worthless.


Edit: Whoops; the conversation was about the "T1 / T4 playing together" thing. My bad. The point stands.

Edited by Wintersdark, 09 March 2016 - 01:59 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Azalie, on 09 March 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

These calls for objective proof though honestly make me laugh. This is a forum for a video game on the internet...not a trial in court. I remember fondly about 12+ years ago when people were at least sometimes taken for their word.....long before "pics for it didn't happen" spread like wildfire. Boy times sure have changed.

People want proof when you make these claims, because people are wrong all the time then these stories get repeated and used as "collaboratory evidence" for other claims. Because we want to learn what IS actually happening.

It's not about taking people at their word - though that is a part of it. In a huge number of cases, people are simply incorrect. But in addition, yeah, there's a great deal of "massaging the data to support your hypothesis" that happens here in these very forums, and we get tired of dealing with that too.

So, if you're going to claim something is broken or otherwise not working as expected, then taking a screenshot is not an unreasonable request. After all, if it is broken/not working as expected, then I'm sure you could get it to happen again.

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 09 March 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

People want proof when you make these claims, because people are wrong all the time then these stories get repeated and used as "collaboratory evidence" for other claims. Because we want to learn what IS actually happening.

It's not about taking people at their word - though that is a part of it. In a huge number of cases, people are simply incorrect. But in addition, yeah, there's a great deal of "massaging the data to support your hypothesis" that happens here in these very forums, and we get tired of dealing with that too.

So, if you're going to claim something is broken or otherwise not working as expected, then taking a screenshot is not an unreasonable request. After all, if it is broken/not working as expected, then I'm sure you could get it to happen again.

another good example is the number of times you see players cry "hacker" because they don't understand some of the game mechanics.

I posted in a thread no too long ago that I got accused of cheating because I was dropping lurms on the head of a player and they didn't realize they had a UAV above them so I MUST be cheating and/or hacking.

So that's exactly why we as a community, and PGI many times, request screenshots and/or videos. It has nothing to do with doubting the integrity of another and everything to do with misunderstandings

[Azalie]

Bilbo, on 09 March 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

We aren't asking for signed affidavits, just a simple screenshot. The system isn't supposed to work the way he claimed it did and the only way to get fixed if there is a problem is to have some proof that the problem exists besides hearsay. In the nearly 2000 games I've played since the system was introduced, I haven't personally seen any evidence to suggest it doesn't work as stated by the devs.

Wintersdark, on 09 March 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

People want proof when you make these claims, because people are wrong all the time then these stories get repeated and used as "collaboratory evidence" for other claims. Because we want to learn what IS actually happening.

It's not about taking people at their word - though that is a part of it. In a huge number of cases, people are simply incorrect. But in addition, yeah, there's a great deal of "massaging the data to support your hypothesis" that happens here in these very forums, and we get tired of dealing with that too.

So, if you're going to claim something is broken or otherwise not working as expected, then taking a screenshot is not an unreasonable request. After all, if it is broken/not working as expected, then I'm sure you could get it to happen again.

But as he stated he did not screenshot the occurance....so that is a dead issue. I just feel the real debate should not be whether or not it's true but instead the implications of it if it is....and particularly ways in which we can try to reproduce this and understand what is going on. If it is not able to be reproduced then obviously it lacks credibility.

That's how the scientific method works.

Edited by Azalie, 09 March 2016 - 05:52 PM.

[Bilbo]

Azalie, on 09 March 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

But as he stated he did not screenshot the occurance....so that is a dead issue. I just feel the real debat should not be whether or not it's true but instead the implications of it if it is....and particularly ways in which we can try to reproduce this and understand what is going on. If it is not able to be reproduced then obviously it lacks credibility.

That's how the scientific method works.

According to his posts, his son is in next room. Unfortunately, the easiest way to confirm his problem exists is for them to make a concerted effort to reproduce it. When they play, on what server(s), and what mechs they are playing are all factors that would take a God awful amount of time to try and reproduce the result for anyone else. Even if one were to try, the information to do so wasn't apparent to me.

Edited by Bilbo, 09 March 2016 - 05:43 PM.

[Orbit Rain]

Douglas, had to stop reading the replies at some point. I'll be blunt, you're Tier 5. You know what needs to be done to move up in Tiers, if that's the game you're playing. Like earning cbills, you'll get over it as soon as you___stop thinking about it___the cbills and the tier increase will come. Those things come by _you_ personally doing well and increasing the odds that your team will win.

The game I'm playing is leading charges, directing teams, winning games and killing mechs. I have a mech in the "What Mech Challenge" and went through Tier four to three about halfway through the Cadet Bonus. I'm Tier 1 Full Bar, I _should_ be doing that. How to do it? Simple: know what to do...and do it.

You don't know what to do, or how to do it. There is a long...l o n g...learning curve. If you carve off pieces of mechs, if you can consistently survive, if you can do the right things...it doesn't matter if your team loses, you move up, you move up consistently...if you know how to do that, you do that...If you don't know how___which you don't___

You stay where you are.

Don't f'ing cry either, little girls cry...
...lead the charge, survive and win.

Edited by Orbit Rain, 09 March 2016 - 06:29 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Bilbo, on 09 March 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

According to his posts, his son is in next room. Unfortunately, the easiest way to confirm his problem exists is for them to make a concerted effort to reproduce it. When they play, on what server(s), and what mechs they are playing are all factors that would take a God awful amount of time to try and reproduce the result for anyone else. Even if one were to try, the information to do so wasn't apparent to me.

This. They could reproduce it, and document. And if it's not bullcrap, they should so they can present that information to PGI as it is a bug and needs to be fixed.

Just saying it happened isn't helpful and tends towards harmful, as you see here, because them people just assume whatever wild claim was made was in fact true.

[Douglas grizzly]

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

[Revis Volek]

Douglas grizzly, on 09 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

XP is NOT Match Score...

You got 4 kills and 373 with 1 KMDD, so you stole potentially (dont know for sure as i didnt see the game) 2 or 3 of them which doesn't net much for Match Score

And you LOST, You need to gives us the screen shot with your match score. the TEAM STATS page and blank out the names if you like.

Edited by Revis Volek, 09 March 2016 - 09:52 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Douglas grizzly, on 09 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

For match score, you'd have had 186.5 match score from damage, plus the other stuff. Damage, at 1pt per 2 damage, is typically 80% of match score, so that would put an estimate of your match score at 233, which on a loss is definitely down.

[kesmai]

What about a "opt-in" tick box, which, when activated allows the player to drop with all tiers. Just accept longer queue timeS if unticked.
last thing we need is a tier only queue. The population is, let's put it mildly, not exactly skyrocketing.

Edited by kesmai, 09 March 2016 - 11:25 PM.

[eminus]

Tier 1 Smurf, on 09 March 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/

Thank you very much, that was a good read indeed

[Sandpit]

Douglas grizzly, on 09 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

your damage was 373 and 4 kills. That means you popped in and got some easy kills at the end of the match.
You had nowhere near a 900 match score or damage.

I think we've discovered the problem though. You're misreading your end of match screen

[GRiPSViGiL]

Sandpit, on 10 March 2016 - 08:33 AM, said:

your damage was 373 and 4 kills. That means you popped in and got some easy kills at the end of the match.
You had nowhere near a 900 match score or damage.

I think we've discovered the problem though. You're misreading your end of match screen

He is thinking the XP score is his match score.

[PyckenZot]

Douglas grizzly, on 09 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

And this is why we ask for screenshots. As stated by some others before, your score was nowhere near 900. You received nearly 900 XP for that drop. That is all. The PSR thresholds still stand.

[el piromaniaco]

Douglas grizzly, on 09 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

You have to press the TEAM STATS tab to see the Match Score screen. You probably had no more then 150 MS on that game, so down it goes.

[Sandpit]

PyckenZot, on 10 March 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

And this is why we ask for screenshots.

exactly
It has nothing to do with questioning his integrity, it has to do with mistakes like this. It's an honest mistake but hopefully the OP can now see why he isn't climbing as fast as he feels he should be.

The OP isn't doing "bad", but based on that screenshot it also looks like he's not playing his mech to its fullest potential. 1 KMDD means he pumped quite a bit of damage into one of those kills. The other kills had to have been just getting the lucky final shot. If I had to take a guess I would imagine that the OP was playing the "hide and seek" game and ridge humping or something similar until his team got an advantage before pushing into the melee.

Grizz, if you'd give us some actual info most of the people replying to your thread have the experience in the game and willingness to help you out. You need to kind of step down from that high horse though and admit that it has a little more to do with your play style than you wanted to admit, which is fine.

Not a single person here has attacked you or tried to make you feel inferior, but you seem to be very defensive about accepting our advice and help. If you truly want to improve, you'll listen and givbe us some info to help you out.

[Tier 1 Smurf]

Douglas grizzly, on 09 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

*facepalm*

[Roadkill]

Douglas grizzly, on 09 March 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

ok guys i know you guys all phoo phooed me about my psr going down with a 900 score and here is one where i was very close to that and it still went down even though i have a score almost 900. here is my proof. http://imgur.com/BD2nRgi

As already explained, XPs are not Match Score. (If only it were... I've received 16k+ xps in a single match before during a double XP weekend...)

Match Score is on the other screen (click on Team Stats top center). In this specific case, based on your damage, kills, assists, etc, my guess would be that your Match Score was probably about 220-230. You need a Match Score of 250+ in a loss to avoid having your PSR go down.