87 replies to this topic

[Mole]

I've never been left behind in my assaults personally. I just see it happen to other people. But then again, the slowest 'mech that I run still moves at 65.3 kph, so I've been mostly attributing the fact that I don't get left behind to the fact that I don't own any seriously slow 'mechs. Oftentimes I will escort my assaults in my smaller 'mechs until they can link up with the team.

[xX PUG Xx]

Some of the "it's the assault mech's fault" replies are why I simply don't play in the Quick queues unless there is a ceasefire in effect or i'm grouped with some friends and we are coordinated. This is the main reason I will probably not go past Tier 2 regardless of winning the majority of those few and far between Quick drops.

IF I do drop in Quick queue and drop in a Heavy or Medium, my normal SOP is to head to the assaults and cover their attempt to regroup. 7 times out of 10 I will catch a few Light or Medium pilots charging after those assaults and notch up a kill or two, thus putting my team ahead while protecting my TEAMmates. Who then are able to go and deal with their counterparts on the opposing side, go figure.

I'm going to highlight one small piece of information that seems to be forgotten, perhaps due to the term "Nascar" being used, this game is not a race. It is SUPPOSED to be a tactical shooter, one where the players actually think about what they are doing rather "this is how we always play this map".

For instance it is possible to fight in any number of places on Alpine Peaks, yet 98% find entire teams charge straight to Murder Mountain because "that's where we always fight". Caustic Valley turns into counterclockwise, ring-a-ring-a-roses with added laser vomit and LRM goodness because "that's the best way to win on this map". I could go on but I really can't be bothered, since I KNOW what the replies are going to be........ because that's what they always are

So, I'm sure you'll all continue to think of yourselves as tactical, MechWarrior legends and I'll continue to play Faction warfare. Good Luck, Good Hunting and Have Fun o7

[Lozruet Gravemind]

KHETTI, on 09 March 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

Anyone who says "If your assault can't keep up, thats your problem", i don't want you on my team, that makes you a nascar specialist, problem is, even if i point out how detrimental your attitude and tactics are, you still won't get it, you never will.

Assaults are like tanks, they require infantry support to be fully effective, think of everything that's not an assault as infantry,.
If you aren't supporting your assaults , you are significantly reducing your chances of winning.

Thats the problem. MWO puts more reward on individual achievement than it does on team work. You want teams to work together make the cooperating reward more than individual actions, make those Protections/Lance Formations/Savior kills worth MORE than the Solo Kill or KMDD. Also make a win give a multiplier to your rewards. Oh you can make 200k on this lose well if you had won that would of been 450-500K. Incentivize people to work togehter and they will.

[Sandpit]

Mole, on 08 March 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

So I was just in a match today where my team, once again, left our assaults behind to die. Our Dire Wolf complained about it, and some guy legit told him to "bring something faster or shut it", that it "wasn't our fault he brought a slow mech and got caught out" and then, when challenged, issued his response: "check score" as if him having a good score in his Warhammer made his point less stupid somehow. What is wrong with people?

lol you haven't been here long then

All you can do is let players like that keep thinking that, they'll never do well in the higher tiers and will be the ones b*tching and moaning about their team sucking. Then you can point and laugh with the rest of us that tried to explain the whole concept of teamwork to them

[WarHippy]

Nauht, on 08 March 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Puglife.

But on the flipside of that it will teach that DW to be more situationally aware and get to know the maps better. One of my main mechs is my dakka whale and I've never been caught alone ever since it happened the first week the DW was released.

Positioning, being aware of where the herd is going, where the enemy will be, where they'll come from and how to get where you're going before the herd does, is all needed to drive the DW. Plan ahead.

I see this argument a lot and I frankly find it a little strange. Somehow the Assault mechs are the ones that are not situationally aware and it is their fault they are left behind. However, in reality it is the lighter faster mechs in the other two lances that seem to be in need off situational awareness and realize they are leaving a third of their team and a significant chunk of the teams firepower behind. That isn't to say the Assault mechs are not at fault some of the time for one reason or another, but a lot of people seem to lay the blame entirely on them when the other players are a big part of the problem.

Edited by WarHippy, 09 March 2016 - 12:53 PM.

[Xavori]

Azalie, on 08 March 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

This is why I stopped playing Dire Wolves once I hit Tier 2....was getting crazy. Team would not always engage in maneuvers I could keep up with and did not always respond to requests to group up or slow down. Back in Tier 3 the enemy was often not coordinated enough that I was swarmed or the pilots themselves just slowly marched into my dakka taking it all to the face....I'd still die but would take 2 or 3 with me....not anymore.

Now I stick to an Atlas or Stalker....so long as it does 60+kph I don't seem to have any issues staying in effective ranges with regards to the team.


Have to disagree with the call for Dire Wolves to lead the charge though... With their speed and pitiful twist range I feel they are best in the second line of mechs to crest the hill...heavies and faster assaults who can take punishment should draw fire so whales can have some time to unleash their death. Enemy will sometimes even switch to it....spreading damage and allowing the first wave some relief.

So what you're saying is you're going to play nothing but Kodiak's once they're released

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 09 March 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

I see this argument a lot and I frankly find it a little strange. Somehow the Assault mechs are the ones that are not situationally aware and it is there fault they are left behind. However, in reality it is the lighter faster mechs in the other two lances that seem to be in need off situational awareness and realize they are leaving a third of their team and a significant chunk of the teams firepower behind. That isn't to say the Assault mechs are not at fault some of the time for one reason or another, but a lot of people seem to lay the blame entirely on them when the other players are a big part of the problem.

exactly
blame the mech that can't keep up or blame the mech that runs off and leaves teammates

If you look at your mini map and everyone is behind you and you're leaving slower mechs behind, they aren't the issue most times...

Xavori, on 09 March 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

So what you're saying is you're going to play nothing but Kodiak's once they're released

I'm curious as to how fast they expect an Atlas to go since it's not going to break past the 50/kph range with the biggest engine possible. I guess that Atlas pilot should find a way to make it go faster. Perhaps painting flames on it?

[SplashDown]

Assault mechs may be slow..but they bring the armor they bring the power..if ur to stupid to wait for them and use them to ur teams advantage then no matter what ur score is ur still a scrub lord...period

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 09 March 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

exactly
blame the mech that can't keep up or blame the mech that runs off and leaves teammates

If you look at your mini map and everyone is behind you and you're leaving slower mechs behind, they aren't the issue most times...


I'm curious as to how fast they expect an Atlas to go since it's not going to break past the 50/kph range with the biggest engine possible. I guess that Atlas pilot should find a way to make it go faster. Perhaps painting flames on it?

Paint it red? I have heard that red makes things go faster.

[Azalie]

Xavori, on 09 March 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

So what you're saying is you're going to play nothing but Kodiak's once they're released

Oh you better believe it.

[Whipley]

WarHippy, on 09 March 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

Paint it red? I have heard that red makes things go faster.

Yeah, but that's just gonna make my 'mech insurance go through the roof.

[Zerberus]

Whipley, on 09 March 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Yeah, but that's just gonna make my 'mech insurance go through the roof.

Thankfully repair and rearm is free, otherwise you´d see your premiums rise after every match, too.

[ILikePeaches]

You see the same thing in other tactically minded games like World of Tanks. If the game prioritizes rewards for individual score then you can bet that there will be a lot more people being self centered to try and use their allies rather than working together. The team that wins tends to be the one that manages to put aside their selfishness more than the other team and focus on supporting each other rather than trying to lone wolf it. If everyone fights for the mech next to them then you are pretty much guaranteed a win. After all, if everyone just fights each other head on, then it's just a slugging match. And once one guy goes down on the line then it's like dominoes since the enemy team now can focus more than one mech on an enemy. This is pretty much the case with any game though.

[Nightmare1]

Had something similar the other night, but the shoe was on the other foot. My 8-man was up against a tough Unit and had a 4-man along with us. We had a couple Assault Mechs in our 8-Man and had already reached the right hand side of Tourmaline opposite the Crystal Palace when the pug 4-man started crying about us leaving them behind. The problem was though, that they dithered before moving to team with us, then went off on their own before coming back towards us. Even with their Dire Wolf, they shouldn't have been very far behind us if they had come straight to us. I was using VOIP to call the drop and they had VOIP enabled, so it wasn't like we kept them in the dark either. They just didn't play ball with the larger group, and then whined about us moving too fast.

Funny thing was, we caught the enemy team off-guard with our 8-Man and did some real damage. They had two Atlases, two King Crabs, and a Mauler though, so, despite us picking off and Atlas, KGC, and two other Mechs early in the match, they had enough weight to make a powerful counterattack. It was nip and tuck for a bit, then our slow-pokes finally caught up. I thought we would win since they had two Assaults in their lance.

Nope, they didn't play ball again, tried to charge as a 4-man at the wrong part of the enemy line without regard to what my 8-man was doing and asking them to do, and died horrifically.

I was pretty aggravated, especially when they started trash talking my Unit.

So, all that to say, buy a big engine or (If it's Clan) run a faster Assault. If you're the dog's tail, don't try to shake the dog; cooperate with the larger Unit. If you do both of those, you'll never get left behind.

SplashDown, on 09 March 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

Assault mechs may be slow..but they bring the armor they bring the power..if ur to stupid to wait for them and use them to ur teams advantage then no matter what ur score is ur still a scrub lord...period

*Chuckle* My Unit ran a 12-Man at close the the minimum tonnage requirement. We only had two Heavies on the team and no Assaults.

We kicked butt; it was great!

Speed > Firepower and armor

[Mystere]

Lozruet Gravemind, on 09 March 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

Thats the problem. MWO puts more reward on individual achievement than it does on team work. You want teams to work together make the cooperating reward more than individual actions, make those Protections/Lance Formations/Savior kills worth MORE than the Solo Kill or KMDD. Also make a win give a multiplier to your rewards. Oh you can make 200k on this lose well if you had won that would of been 450-500K. Incentivize people to work togehter and they will.

Frankly, I have no problem with a winner-takes-all reward system. Either people work with their team to win, or they get nothing.

[Sandpit]

Nightmare1, on 09 March 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

Had something similar the other night, but the shoe was on the other foot. My 8-man was up against a tough Unit and had a 4-man along with us. We had a couple Assault Mechs in our 8-Man and had already reached the right hand side of Tourmaline opposite the Crystal Palace when the pug 4-man started crying about us leaving them behind. The problem was though, that they dithered before moving to team with us, then went off on their own before coming back towards us. Even with their Dire Wolf, they shouldn't have been very far behind us if they had come straight to us. I was using VOIP to call the drop and they had VOIP enabled, so it wasn't like we kept them in the dark either. They just didn't play ball with the larger group, and then whined about us moving too fast.

Funny thing was, we caught the enemy team off-guard with our 8-Man and did some real damage. They had two Atlases, two King Crabs, and a Mauler though, so, despite us picking off and Atlas, KGC, and two other Mechs early in the match, they had enough weight to make a powerful counterattack. It was nip and tuck for a bit, then our slow-pokes finally caught up. I thought we would win since they had two Assaults in their lance.

Nope, they didn't play ball again, tried to charge as a 4-man at the wrong part of the enemy line without regard to what my 8-man was doing and asking them to do, and died horrifically.

I was pretty aggravated, especially when they started trash talking my Unit.

So, all that to say, buy a big engine or (If it's Clan) run a faster Assault. If you're the dog's tail, don't try to shake the dog; cooperate with the larger Unit. If you do both of those, you'll never get left behind.



*Chuckle* My Unit ran a 12-Man at close the the minimum tonnage requirement. We only had two Heavies on the team and no Assaults.

We kicked butt; it was great!

Speed > Firepower and armor

you're using examples that have nothing to do with the OP

a lance running off on its own and not bothering to work with the team is no different than a team running off at full speed and completely ignoring the slower moving mechs

Your opinion is speed < firepower and armor, that's great, it's not a fact though and you're completely discounting the ability of a 12man to run a lot more coordinated effort than another team comprised of various players not as cohesive.

[Nightmare1]

Sandpit, on 09 March 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

you're using examples that have nothing to do with the OP

a lance running off on its own and not bothering to work with the team is no different than a team running off at full speed and completely ignoring the slower moving mechs

Your opinion is speed < firepower and armor, that's great, it's not a fact though and you're completely discounting the ability of a 12man to run a lot more coordinated effort than another team comprised of various players not as cohesive.

Point was, the lance ran slow Assaults which slowed the entire team down, then wandered off on their own forcing us to ditch them. That does relate to the OP.

As for speed< firepower and armor, it's the other way around. It's also the reason why, in a 1v1, Light Mechs beat Assaults.

Speed is life, so use a big engine.

Edited by Nightmare1, 09 March 2016 - 12:22 PM.

[Zerberus]

Mystere, on 09 March 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

Frankly, I have no problem with a winner-takes-all reward system. Either people work with their team to win, or they get nothing.

To be honest, A winner takes all system is probably the ONLY way you´ll get most of the Cryhards to care about winning more than "Muahaha, I got 3 kills and 600 dmg, I´m god"... but it will first be preceded by a QQnami of "WAAAH!! But I´m ******* Imba, why don´t I get moneyanyway, it´s not my fault everyone else sucks!!"

[Sandpit]

Nightmare1, on 09 March 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

then wandered off on their own .

exactly

Nightmare1, on 09 March 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

As for speed< firepower and armor, it's the other way around. It's also the reason why, in a 1v1, Light Mechs beat Assaults.

and again, that's your opinion, not a fact

[Nightmare1]

Sandpit, on 09 March 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

exactly


and again, that's your opinion, not a fact

They were whining even before they wandered off. We were only one sector grid apart though, and we were feeding them movement information. They wanted us to hold their hands though because of their small engines.

Pretty sure it's more fact than opinion. Wins tend to occur because the teams move fast and aggressively. Slow teams tend to get picked apart from what I've seen. It's observational science. It's also outside the scope of this thread.

Why so persnickety today Sandpit?