53 replies to this topic

[Monodominant]

So, I am stuck on Tier 4... its a very weird thing and wondering why it happens.

I am wondering if the fact that I have many games played is causing some problem or if the fact I used to play in Beta and have recently come back somehow caused a problem to the system.

I regularly get 300-500 damage (even on a Blackjack) have a kill/death ratio 0.95 (293-309) and I am also often top scorer for the team. Last night I got 8 kills in a single match for example... in a blackjack.

But often, even if I am top scorer and top damager, just cause my team lost I see 'pilot rating going down'.

I had started a Clan Account and just playing with trial mechs (Direwolf, Timberwolf and 1-2 others) I played around 15 games and got to Tier 3!

Is my Tier - Pilot rating bugged? I just finished another game were we lost but I had 400 damage, was 2-3rd scorer of our team, had a kill and 4-5 assists and still 'rating down'... hence I am forever stuck at half-way point of Tier 4!!!

Edited by Monodominant, 09 March 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[Bilbo]

Monodominant, on 09 March 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

So, I am stuck on Tier 4... its a very weird thing and wondering why it happens.

I am wondering if the fact that I have many games played is causing some problem or if the fact I used to play in Beta and have recently come back somehow caused a problem to the system.

I regularly get 300-500 damage (even on a Blackjack) have a kill/death ratio 0.95 (293-309) and I am also often top scorer for the team. Last night I got 8 kills in a single match for example... in a blackjack.

But often, even if I am top scorer and top damager, just cause my team lost I see 'pilot rating going down'.

I had started a Clan Account and just playing with trial mechs (Direwolf, Timberwolf and 1-2 others) I played around 15 games and got to Tier 3!

Is my Tier - Pilot rating bugged? I just finished another game were we lost but I had 400 damage, was 2-3rd scorer of our team, had a kill and 4-5 assists and still 'rating down'... hence I am forever stuck at half-way point of Tier 4!!!

New accounts have accelerated PSR advancement to get the sharks out of the kiddie pool. Keep playing games on the old account and the bar will eventually go up.

Also, your looking at the wrong numbers. The only number that matters is match score. Good info about PSR here:
http://mwomercs.com/...-as-best-i-can/

Edited by Bilbo, 09 March 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[Zerberus]

Have you read this thread already in Developer´s Corner -> Command Chair?? It more or less explains it, which is also the only reason that thread exists at all.

http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/

"Clarification 1" already holds a big hint, 2 very important words at the end of the third sentence.

"Clarification 2" also holds a very large hint , more or less teh entire last paragraph.

And for all those that still somehow missed it, it´s in bold letters in sentence 3 of "Clarification 5"

Damage and kills help a bit, but KdR is entirely irrelevant.

Winning, on the other hand, is VERY relevant, and better team play increases the chances of winning exponentially.

I think I see a pattern forming....

Bilbo, on 09 March 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

The only number that matters is match score. Good info about PSR here:
http://mwomercs.com/...-as-best-i-can/

And yet with a match score of 400+ (as opposed to the often quoted 250+ that as far as I can tell someone pulled out of his *** randomly who knows when) I have gone both up AND down within less than an hour of each other, in the same tier... so apparently, it´s NOT the only thing that matters. The PSR down score was actually the higher of the 2 at 478 as opposed to 413. I´ll play a few matches later and see if I can get similar EG screens to post...

I´ve also seen my PSR go up on match scores of <200 while using lights with TAG and NARC, but only on wins.

This is where I think that maybe, just maybe the devs have more of a clue how their systems work than some random player who has neither the algorithms at hand nor a reasonable sample size (read: thousands of matches, something that impossible to achieve in such a short timeframe after PSR was introduced unless he has at least 2 or 3 dozen people feeding him screens.) to base his assumptions on as is the case in that thread.

Edited by Zerberus, 09 March 2016 - 08:02 AM.

[Mcgral18]

If your rank went down on a loss, you got under 400 (or was it 250 MS?) damage, which is generally a sub par number in the PUG LIFE, unless you get a magically competent team, then everyone would be around there

It's hard to lose PSR if you keep shooting robots and avoid bad positioning. Not always possible...but PSR is an experience bar for the most part, play more matches and you'll go up.

Yes, slower than brand new players, as they have a PSR boost for the first 25 matches.

[xTrident]

I can vouch for the PSR bar being an experience bar... I PUG all the time and I'm not a super great pilot meaning my matches are - for the most part - mixed. Lately since this past weekend I've been having dreadful matches. I can't get good damage or kills and I've noticed my PSR rating continuing to rise regardless.

[Alistair Winter]

One of the consequences of hidden PSR scores is that we can't really measure how many points are given depending on different match scores (i.e. 0-99, 99-249, 250-399, 400+) and we don't know what the cap is for each Tier. We don't know if these scores are being adjusted by PGI as the populations grows, we don't really know much about it at all.

Some people have tried to make estimates by counting how many pixels the needle moves depending on different scores, but I don't know if that's stil accurate, if it ever was. It may also depend from Tier to Tier.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Want my advice? Don't worry about it and have fun.

[Zerberus]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 09 March 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

Want my advice? Don't worry about it and have fun.

Probably the best advice, since we as players cannot reasonably prove or disprove any theories about how PSR works.

And when I look at how hilarious many of the statements about the previous Elo system were, I have significant doubts from the get go about any and all player-derived theories about any form of matchmaking system, especially those that basically directly contradict Dev statements.

Edited by Zerberus, 09 March 2016 - 08:06 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Zerberus, on 09 March 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:

Probably the best advice, since we as players cannot reasonably prove or disprove any theories about how PSR works.

And when I look at how hilarious many of the statements about the previous Elo system were, I have significant doubts from the get go about any and all player-derived theories about any form of matchmaking system, especially those that basically directly contradict Dev statements.

Yup. Besides it's way more fun to think about the other conspiracy theories. Like PGI added knockdownable trees to secretly work on thei back end net code to sync up fall locations for everyone so mech knockdowns can be returned to the game. Or the secret destroyable tree in old caustic.

[Monodominant]

Well... they put it there and its visible so...

But I imagine there should be a weight for what kind of mech you are in. Match Score is directly correlated with damage... and sure, you get MS for other things as well (assists, spots, caps etc.) but the big one is damage... and you cant do THAT much damage in a light or a medium (with some exceptions) in a balanced match...

[mogs01gt]

If you have a kdr below 1, you probably wont be getting into tier 2 or 1. Typically you'll need a minimum kdr of 2.00 to hit tier2 and then into tier1.

The easiest way to gain tier is to use missiles since they tend to supply high amounts of damage vs pp weapons. In other words, focus on damage and manipulating your PSR rather than worrying about having a high kdr. Mainting a high kdr and trying to gain PSR tiers will be rough.

Edited by mogs01gt, 09 March 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[sycocys]

If you are determined to get out of T4 you are going to need to post up an average of roughly 600 damage per match with a kill, the more damage/kills the better beyond that point.

Going up by the minimum amount then having bad/multiple games where you lose points is going to make advancing very tedious if your net gain is the smallest amount upwards.

[Xiphias]

Zerberus, on 09 March 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

And yet with a match score of 400+ (as opposed to the often quoted 250+ that as far as I can tell someone pulled out of his *** randomly who knows when) I have gone both up AND down within less than an hour of each other, in the same tier... so apparently, it´s NOT the only thing that matters. The PSR down score was actually the higher of the 2 at 478 as opposed to 413. I´ll play a few matches later and see if I can get similar EG screens to post...

I´ve also seen my PSR go up on match scores of <200 while using lights with TAG and NARC, but only on wins.

I took screenshots of several hundred of my own matches when PSR was introduced. My results matched what was in that post. I'm highly skeptical that you were somehow able to move down with a match score of 478, at the very least you would expect to stay even. My guess is that you probably looked at damage instead of match score, 478 damage is not enough to guarantee a >250 match score which means you could move down.

If you have screenshots, I'd love to see them because I've heard this claimed, but no one has ever been able to provide screenshots for it, so you'll have to pardon my skepticism.

To the second point, if you read the post you would notice that is says that you need >100 to move up on a win.

[Roadkill]

Zerberus, on 09 March 2016 - 07:31 AM, said:

And yet with a match score of 400+ (as opposed to the often quoted 250+ that as far as I can tell someone pulled out of his *** randomly who knows when) I have gone both up AND down within less than an hour of each other, in the same tier... so apparently, it's NOT the only thing that matters. The PSR down score was actually the higher of the 2 at 478 as opposed to 413. I'll play a few matches later and see if I can get similar EG screens to post...

I've also seen my PSR go up on match scores of <200 while using lights with TAG and NARC, but only on wins.

I'd want to see screenshots, because I've been paying close attention to my results and the lines are pretty clearly at 100, 250, and 400, though I don't have sufficient results in the immediate area of 400 for that one to be really solid. (What is it with 400? I tend to get 360-370... or 450. *sigh*)

PSR increases in a win if your match score is above 100, so that latter example fits the understanding perfectly.

Can't explain the 400s based on what we currently know, other than are you sure you were reading match score and not damage? 478 damage could still theoretically be a PSR down result in a loss.

[Parnage Winters]

Don't worry about it duder. The tiers mean nothing. They are at best rough guidelines of ones ability taken by a very broad definition of ability. The only change is que time length going up.

[Zerberus]

Roadkill, on 09 March 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

I'd want to see screenshots, because I've been paying close attention to my results and the lines are pretty clearly at 100, 250, and 400, though I don't have sufficient results in the immediate area of 400 for that one to be really solid. (What is it with 400? I tend to get 360-370... or 450. *sigh*)

PSR increases in a win if your match score is above 100, so that latter example fits the understanding perfectly.

Can't explain the 400s based on what we currently know, other than are you sure you were reading match score and not damage? 478 damage could still theoretically be a PSR down result in a loss.

I think after 5 years one should slowly know the difference between the match score column closest to the players name and the damage column on the far right next to the ping., haha

But then again...

Again, I´ll see if I can get a few screens later, assuming I don´t forget to take them and just enjoy the game like I normally do. It´s not like this is a pressing issue that we can all do our part to change or something like that, it´s basically irrelevant but still nice to know.

Edited by Zerberus, 09 March 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[Bilbo]

mogs01gt, on 09 March 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

If you have a kdr below 1, you probably wont be getting into tier 2 or 1. Typically you'll need a minimum kdr of 2.00 to hit tier2 and then into tier1.

The easiest way to gain tier is to use missiles since they tend to supply high amounts of damage vs pp weapons. In other words, focus on damage and manipulating your PSR rather than worrying about having a high kdr. Mainting a high kdr and trying to gain PSR tiers will be rough.

I have a KDR of .90. It's actually still trending downwards. I was tier 4 when the system was introduced with a kdr of .97 My bar is still slowly moving up in tier 2 though.

[PyckenZot]

mogs01gt, on 09 March 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

If you have a kdr below 1, you probably wont be getting into tier 2 or 1. Typically you'll need a minimum kdr of 2.00 to hit tier2 and then into tier1.

What gives you that idea? K/D has no influence whatsoever on PSR. I have never been at an overal K/D higher than 2. Play to win and do damage. That gives you a high PSR. Not K/D-whoring,...

Edited by PyckenZot, 09 March 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[KodiakGW]

xTrident, on 09 March 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

I can vouch for the PSR bar being an experience bar... I PUG all the time and I'm not a super great pilot meaning my matches are - for the most part - mixed. Lately since this past weekend I've been having dreadful matches. I can't get good damage or kills and I've noticed my PSR rating continuing to rise regardless.

I've had a similar experience. Been leveling a couple of mechs recently. One I am average in (Crab), and one I'm doing poorly in (Raven). The majority of my losses are PSR down match scores, and about 20-25% of the wins in those are PSR = becuase I cannot output enough damage during a stomp. Yet, my PSR still climbed.

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yes, slower than brand new players, as they have a PSR boost for the first 25 matches.

Is this true? If so, it would explain A LOT of what I see in PUG matches. Maybe they should reconsider changing that. Just because someone is a good shot and can get high match scores against seals, does not mean they know how to play well with/against more experienced competitive players.

[mogs01gt]

PyckenZot, on 09 March 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

What gives you that idea? K/D has no influence whatsoever on PSR. I have never been at an overal K/D higher than 2. Play to win and do damage. That gives you a high PSR. Not K/D-whoring,...

Correct, that is exactly what I was explaining.

If you care about kdr, then stop worrying about tier. If you care about tier, stop worrying about kdr. It's easier to manipulate tier than it is to manipulate your kdr.