99 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

With high enough "power draw" where you can only fire one at a time it might be balanced, to be honest.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i would be happy with this, you already have to chain fire erppcs on the warhawk anyway.

[OznerpaG]

if they limit alpha then i don't see too much of a problem

30 alpha limit = 3 LL

no ghost heat for going above the limit - fire a 30 energy alpha then ALL energy weapons on your mech go into full cooldown, and you can't fire any other weapon type (gauss/ballistic or missile) for 1 second so no staggering weapons fire for a 'virtual alpha'

1 LL = 1 PPC = 2 ML/MPL = 3 SL/SPL

if you do an alpha that goes slightly above the 30 alpha there would be a heat penalty, for example 6 MPL = 36dmg = maybe 6 heat penalty



of course this needs more thought - just a basic idea for a small sample of weapons

Edited by JagdFlanker, 09 March 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[cazidin]

The way I understand how Ghost Power™ will work is that you cannot fire more than 2 PPCs, 2 Gauss Rifles or a combination of the two at a time AND will have a delay until you can fire any additional weapons. That'll balance the Dual PPC, dual Gauss Rifle Dire Wolf.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Whelp...this makes me worry about GH Mk2 more than the 15 PP FLD cERPPC itself.
If they allow this, I can't help but wonder what they're going to do to Dual Gauss, or the now 60 PP FLD Whale, mainly as an example of a previously good build, but how much extra heat would that generate?

Not any time soon, but Soon™

Yay.

Now if only PPCs and AC10s and AC20s were weapons to be feared as they should be.

Instead because of "church of skill" whining about aiming mechanics we get pinpoint pick a pixel aiming causing so much focus fire issues that armor, structure and such are raised to such ridiculous levels that weapons that should inspire fear don't, and all that matters is the almighty boating and alpha.

Forgive me if I decline to rejoice.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 March 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Yay.

Now if only PPCs and AC10s and AC20s were weapons to be feared as they should be.

Instead because of "church of skill" whining about aiming mechanics we get pinpoint pick a pixel aiming causing so much focus fire issues that armor, structure and such are raised to such ridiculous levels that weapons that should inspire fear don't, and all that matters is the almighty boating and alpha.

Forgive me if I decline to rejoice.

What if armor/heat capacity/dissipation were all cut in half (and ammo reduced to TT levels)? What if Gauss actually generated heat as well so that it didn't need special rules just for it? Just something to think about, not really sure what effect it would have on the game, but hey, its an idea.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 March 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 March 2016 - 12:42 PM, said:

What if armor/heat capacity/dissipation were all cut in half (and ammo reduced to TT levels)? What if Gauss actually generated heat as well so that it didn't need special rules just for it? Just something to think about, not really sure what effect it would have on the game, but hey, its an idea.

I'm all for exploring and testing ideas, period. Not one of the uber pro forum warrior prognosticators who poopoo on any idea not their own. Personally, still think proper heat effects while climbing the scale, and more realistic aiming mechanics would go a long way to, no matter how butthurt a percentage of players might be over it.

Big thing is without changes to aiming, Armor can't be cut, even with capacity and dissipation changes, you'd probably just get comp teams lining up to dump their alpha for the insta kill then having the rest of the team cover then while they are shut down, while the next alpha deliverer steps up.

And you know how I feel about Gauss and Heat. I've been pushing for that (non canon) change for quite some time. Would love sized hardpoints to minimize a lot of meta abuse, too. (for instance, the TDR-9S ERPPC boat would NEVER have been an issue with sized hardpoints, because the only spot it could have packed the ERPPC...was ONE in the RA) Would also eliminate a lot of the sword and board and peektart meta vanilla.

But diversity might occur and we can't have that.

So many things that have been recommended, and ignored since Closed Beta that could have nipped ALL of this in the bud.

Am praying that the Power Capacity thing Russ talked about hits the alpha vomit in the gonads. But not getting my hopes up.

Minor, situational CoF IMO still the way to go.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 March 2016 - 12:49 PM.

[627]

this sounds like there will be no case when you can fire 2 ERPPCs at all. Makes me worry even more than the 15 damage.

[Mcgral18]

cazidin, on 09 March 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

The way I understand how Ghost Power™ will work is that you cannot fire more than 2 PPCs, 2 Gauss Rifles or a combination of the two at a time AND will have a delay until you can fire any additional weapons. That'll balance the Dual PPC, dual Gauss Rifle Dire Wolf.

A more recent Tweet from Russ had it mention Heat, not Ghost Cooldown.

I hope for the former, because the second could murder my Nova.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Luminis, on 09 March 2016 - 11:51 AM, said:

ITT: People judge a possible change without knowing squat about the system replacing Ghost Heat.

Can you blame anyone with the track record we are dealing with?

[WarHippy]

cazidin, on 09 March 2016 - 12:23 PM, said:

The way I understand how Ghost Power™ will work is that you cannot fire more than 2 PPCs, 2 Gauss Rifles or a combination of the two at a time AND will have a delay until you can fire any additional weapons. That'll balance the Dual PPC, dual Gauss Rifle Dire Wolf.

That sounds like terrible game play to me. If you fire only some of your weapons but surpass the arbitrary damage threshold you are suddenly locked out of your other weapons that you have not fired? I really hope that isn't what they are considering doing.

Personally, I think they should have gone the route of a variable cone of fire system...
Firing one weapon = No CoF Pin Point accuracy
Firing two weapons = Slight CoF
Firing three weapons = Slightly more CoF
etc.

A system like that does several things. First being that it allows for skilled shots at any range to still occur albeit at lower damage levels due to the CoF on multiple weapons being fired. Second, it creates a need for people to play a little more dynamically instead of just firing all weapons all the time. For example when brawling you might initially fire all weapons for the first few salvos hitting multiple locations on the enemies torso, but once the armor is breached somewhere you would be better off firing no more than two or three weapons in order to accurately target the exposed section. Finally, a system like that creates a lot of options for interesting additions/changes/fixes to the game. Pinpoint in the skill tree could finally have a purpose by decreasing the CoF; targeting computers could do something similar by increasing the number of weapons you can fire before CoF kicks in(you want to fire 5 lasers pin point? Be prepared to add a MkVII targeting computer). Perhaps the command console would give a group buff that decreases the CoF, and ECM could increase the CoF for targets inside the bubble. Then you have modules that can be added to do all sorts of things to manipulate the system to better fit anyone's personal play style.

[FupDup]

WarHippy, on 09 March 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

That sounds like terrible game play to me. If you fire only some of your weapons but surpass the arbitrary damage threshold you are suddenly locked out of your other weapons that you have not fired? I really hope that isn't what they are considering doing.

Personally, I think they should have gone the route of a variable cone of fire system...
Firing one weapon = No CoF Pin Point accuracy
Firing two weapons = Slight CoF
Firing three weapons = Slightly more CoF
etc.

That hurts mechs like the Nova that often have to use a large number of smaller guns, while having much less effect on mechs using a small number of big guns.

4 IS Medium Lasers having a larger RNGesus radius than twin Gauss? Lel.

Edited by FupDup, 09 March 2016 - 02:16 PM.

[process]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 March 2016 - 12:40 PM, said:

Now if only PPCs and AC10s and AC20s were weapons to be feared as they should be.

I want to relive the days of Mechcommander when I'd poop myself seeing a pack of Bulldog tanks or Hunchbacks running towards my units.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Doesn't matter, PPC bolt will get stuck on an invisible rock and thus do no damage.

[WarHippy]

FupDup, on 09 March 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

That hurts mechs like the Nova that often have to use a large number of smaller guns, while having much less effect on mechs using a small number of big guns.

4 IS Medium Lasers having a larger RNGesus radius than twin Gauss? Lel.

Well adjustments can be made for things like that. However, given the significantly shorter range on medium lasers compared to gauss the CoF isn't going to be as noticeable compared to twin gauss at medium to long range. In addition to no longer having any kind of ghost heat you would be able to lower the heat on some weapons to more manageable levels. As for the Nova I'm not sure, but after it is resized and with this system ghost heat being gone does it really need perfect pin point targeting when firing 12 lasers? If it makes you feel better quirks could still be a thing only instead of heat and range quirks you could have quirks that make certain mechs more capable of using their stock load outs, or the CoF could be capped past a certain number of weapons so certain mechs don't get over punished.

[Pjwned]

I was under the impression that C-ER PPC has splash damage to make it relatively balanced instead of being superior in every way to IS counterparts.

Why don't we just make clan ACs all single shot and give clan LRMs no minimum range and make them volley fire instead of stream fire and make clan lasers burn just as long as IS lasers, etc.

Stupid as ****.

[Alistair Winter]

<shrug>

I have no opinion until we see the new system Paul has created. But if it's a total disaster, I guess they'll just abandon it, like they did with Ghost Range.

[WarHippy]

Alistair Winter, on 09 March 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

<shrug>

I have no opinion until we see the new system Paul has created. But if it's a total disaster, I guess they'll just abandon it, like they did with Ghost Range.

One can only hope.

[Fiona Marshe]

CERPPC split damage is a nicely flavoured and balanced mechanic.

I would like it passed to IS PPCs too, at least after they get the heat/damage balance right. Say an 8/2 split.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

cool
now all i need is making the IS PPC a viable weapon system - because its in pretty much every way inferior to a stupid, boring hitscan laser