99 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Fiona Marshe, on 09 March 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

CERPPC split damage is a nicely flavoured and balanced mechanic.

I would like it passed to IS PPCs too, at least after they get the heat/damage balance right. Say an 8/2 split.

The IS PPC, alone, has never really been a problem. Even the 4 and 5 PPC Stalkers were easily handled because of the minimum range.

[LordNothing]

12+3(spread) actually sounds more sensible to me. i kind of like the spread mechanic the cerppc has, and frankly i think its a better weapon than clan large class lasers.

the biggest issue with the current system is you get ghost heat on a measly 30 point alpha, where some laser configs can do 50+ with no gh at all.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

That, and the huge alphas even possible - MWO mechs are kind of overgunned (partly due to little necessity to build for several different ranges, unlike BT or environments with harder aim) and the heat scale is completely out of whack... this all skews the system and promotes certain behaviors

Sometimes I feel like the only thing we need is MORE heat on a proper, constant and predictable scale (or less capacity) to make the game feel better... and penalties for running near the top. But that would make the game slower and im pretty sure it would get shouted down...

Edit: or, hell, just make aiming harder

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 09 March 2016 - 04:37 PM.

[Coolant]

GRiPSViGiL, on 09 March 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

I read this as "We have no idea how to achieve balance and never will so stay tuned for some sweeping changes. Oh ya buy more mechs"

*MWO Weapons and equipment had initial values
*Balancing would require changes in initial values
*Values have changed
*Therefore balancing has occurred
*Therefore PGI knows how to balance

*MWO weapons and equipment were borrowed from Tabletop
*Tabletop weapons and equipment have values
*Direct conversion between Tabletop and MWO would bring inbalance
*Balancing would be required in initial tabletop values for MWO
*Values in MWO are different than in Tabletop
*Therefore balancing has occurred
*Therefore PGI knows how to balance

You should've replied that you don't like the way PGI has balanced. Or, you could've said the same thing you did with a footnote that you often say illogical statements out of emotional anger or rage.

[cazidin]

LordNothing, on 09 March 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

12+3(spread) actually sounds more sensible to me. i kind of like the spread mechanic the cerppc has, and frankly i think its a better weapon than clan large class lasers.

the biggest issue with the current system is you get ghost heat on a measly 30 point alpha, where some laser configs can do 50+ with no gh at all.

The spread mechanic is neat but I'd prefer ER PPCs to deal a minimum of 12 damage to a single location. You're already paying for that large pinpoint hit because of how much heat you generate from it.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Coolant, on 09 March 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

*MWO Weapons and equipment had initial values
*Balancing would require changes in initial values
*Values have changed
*Therefore balancing has occurred
*Therefore PGI knows how to balance

*MWO weapons and equipment were borrowed from Tabletop
*Tabletop weapons and equipment have values
*Direct conversion between Tabletop and MWO would bring inbalance
*Balancing would be required in initial tabletop values for MWO
*Values in MWO are different than in Tabletop
*Therefore balancing has occurred
*Therefore PGI knows how to balance

You should've replied that you don't like the way PGI has balanced. Or, you could've said the same thing you did with a footnote that you often say illogical statements out of emotional anger or rage.

[VorpalAnvil]

Coolant, on 09 March 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

*MWO Weapons and equipment had initial values
*Balancing would require changes in initial values
*Values have changed
*Therefore balancing has occurred
*Therefore PGI knows how to balance

*MWO weapons and equipment were borrowed from Tabletop
*Tabletop weapons and equipment have values
*Direct conversion between Tabletop and MWO would bring inbalance
*Balancing would be required in initial tabletop values for MWO
*Values in MWO are different than in Tabletop
*Therefore balancing has occurred
*Therefore PGI knows how to balance

You should've replied that you don't like the way PGI has balanced. Or, you could've said the same thing you did with a footnote that you often say illogical statements out of emotional anger or rage.

If you white knight any harder, you're gonna pull something...

[MauttyKoray]

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Whelp...this makes me worry about GH Mk2 more than the 15 PP FLD cERPPC itself.
If they allow this, I can't help but wonder what they're going to do to Dual Gauss, or the now 60 PP FLD Whale, mainly as an example of a previously good build, but how much extra heat would that generate?

Not any time soon, but Soon™

They wouldn't generate any 'EXTRA HEAT'. They still generate the same amount as they do now, HOWEVER, since the CERPPC does 5 more damage than an IS ERPPC, (15 to 10) it would be educated to assume that the POWER DRAW...

Read this carefully: POWER DRAW, the mechanic being implemented.

...would, as a guess, be roughly 150% that of the IS ERPPC.

Maybe less, who knows, but that's the best educated guess I can make on how the CERPPC would be possible to change back to a 15 FLD shot again. (would be nice, but I'm not expecting it.

[OznerpaG]

[Mcgral18]

MauttyKoray, on 09 March 2016 - 06:57 PM, said:

They wouldn't generate any 'EXTRA HEAT'. They still generate the same amount as they do now, HOWEVER, since the CERPPC does 5 more damage than an IS ERPPC, (15 to 10) it would be educated to assume that the POWER DRAW...

Read this carefully: POWER DRAW, the mechanic being implemented.

...would, as a guess, be roughly 150% that of the IS ERPPC.

Maybe less, who knows, but that's the best educated guess I can make on how the CERPPC would be possible to change back to a 15 FLD shot again. (would be nice, but I'm not expecting it.

Yes, a power draw.

What happens when you draw too much power?
I've heard increased cooldowns (the better option) and I've heard a heat spike because the reactor needs to generate more power (the PGI way).


If PGI is willing to do this change, care to guess where this limit is going to fall?

JagdFlanker, on 09 March 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

And what's wrong with discussing things on a Forum?
Do you not know what Soon™ means?

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 March 2016 - 07:12 PM.

[FupDup]

JagdFlanker, on 09 March 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

The Forum Wars must go on.

[Chuck Jager]

cazidin, on 09 March 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

The spread mechanic is neat but I'd prefer ER PPCs to deal a minimum of 12 damage to a single location. You're already paying for that large pinpoint hit because of how much heat you generate from it.

You generate the same heat for 1 more ton and 5 less damage with IS (throw some small range and velocity diff in for good measure). This is NOT TT and clan erppc is a whole lot better than IS erppc except for the PPC that is kinda useable with quirks. BUT both erppc are kinda BAD, and kinda work on only a few builds.

I could care less for lore. Only balance in game. I do like clan UAC10s more than IS 10s.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Whelp...this makes me worry about GH Mk2 more than the 15 PP FLD cERPPC itself.
If they allow this, I can't help but wonder what they're going to do to Dual Gauss, or the now 60 PP FLD Whale, mainly as an example of a previously good build, but how much extra heat would that generate?

Not any time soon, but Soon™

Thats amazing to see and scary at the same time. It really has me wondering just how derpy this system is going to be.

[GRiPSViGiL]

JagdFlanker, on 09 March 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

Russ replaced the obligatory "Soon^TM" with the new and improved "Not Overly Soon^TM"!!! I will say I actually appreciate this honesty considering how slow they have always been. So great at talking the talk, would like a little more walking the walk.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 10 March 2016 - 04:57 PM.

[Pjwned]

If clans get 15 PPFLD ER PPCs then IS gauss (not Clan gauss in this case) should have its cooldown reverted back to 4 seconds.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Sounds to me that they'll be aiming for allowing 30Pt alphas, such as dual CERPPC, triple ISPPC, Dual Gauss, etc...

That's just my guess. They have GH set right now to allow 20-30 PT alphas of a single weapon platform, but you can get around that by adding-on more platforms. I think the new system will try to enforce the 20-30 PT Alpha limit better by preventing the by-pass (I.e. making all weapons count toward the same Alpha cap).

[Grimlox]

The tweet in the OP doesn't seem very clear to me that Russ intends to change C-ERPPC's to pinpoint all the damage.

The guy asks about full 15 damage up front in the future. The current iteration does 15 dmg up front it just has the "splash" mechanic. Nothing in that tweet seems to me like it remotely refers to changing the C-ERPPC to pinpoint all 15 dmg.

We just jumping to conclusions here?

*insert office space jumping to conclusions mat image here*

[cazidin]

Pjwned, on 10 March 2016 - 08:42 AM, said:

If clans get 15 PPFLD ER PPCs then IS gauss (not Clan gauss in this case) should have its cooldown reverted back to 4 seconds.

Why? Clan ER PPC already does 15 points of damage it's just that 1/3rd of it is spread out or lost depending on where you hit. Just a reminder, IS mechs already have cooldown quirks for Energy or Ballistic weapons of 10% on average to compensate for the increased tonnage or critical slots used.

(And yes, I agree that PGI should just change base stats so quirks aren't as necessary or abundant but... well, we're still waiting for that, are we not?)

[FupDup]

cazidin, on 10 March 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Why? Clan ER PPC already does 15 points of damage it's just that 1/3rd of it is spread out or lost depending on where you hit. Just a reminder, IS mechs already have cooldown quirks for Energy or Ballistic weapons of 10% on average to compensate for the increased tonnage or critical slots used.

(And yes, I agree that PGI should just change base stats so quirks aren't as necessary or abundant but... well, we're still waiting for that, are we not?)

15 damage to one hit location > 10 damage to one hit location and 2.5 x 2 damage to adjacent locations.

It's in some ways like a 6-ton Gauss Rifle. Yeah, heat and velocity are still iffy, but it's still half the damn weight.

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 09 March 2016 - 10:38 AM, said:

Whelp...this makes me worry about GH Mk2 more than the 15 PP FLD cERPPC itself.

Oh this new system is bound to be hilarious.

All of the people cheering that ghost heat will be gone probably have no clue what kind of sloppy hot mess its going to be replaced with.