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Archer Quirks: Underwhelming To Outright Puzzling?


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#121 SplashDown

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 07:44 AM

View PostSader325, on 10 March 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:

PERFECT PERFECT PERFECT!

These are the quirks that I wanted.

The two potential brawling Archers got structure quirks: The tempest and the 5W.

The 5W received NO weapon quirks: Why? Because it CANT, 6x SRM6+A is extremely powerful. PGI made the correct move.


The 2R and the 5S are a LRM / Laservomit Hybrid and a Laser Vomit and at midrange (400m+) it wont need structure quirks as badly.

the 2R has insane damage potential with laservomit + 3LRM5+A with 27% cooldown.


I'm happy with these quirks. I will be upgrading my pack to the tempest.

I must say its nice to see some-1 write an honest post wich is few and far between on these threads...most of these post seem to be based on..(I want my new toy to be OP)

The quirks are fine and reasonable the way they are

#122 Y E O N N E

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:06 AM

View PostZerberus, on 11 March 2016 - 05:59 AM, said:

Offtopic, but just for the record, on the street most corvettes will only outperform a Carrerra RS2.7 or 911 turbo in a straight line (and will guzzle about 3x the amount of gasoline doing it). Most roads in Europe are not straight lines, much in contrast to the US interstate system. I love both, but different horses for different courses Posted Image

But that´s also part of the archer´s charm... there will be situations where (assuming equal pilot skill) it is superior to other, similar mechs like the Maddog.. and there will be situations where it´s the last mech you want to be in. There´s always a tradeoff somewhere that can be used to your advantage or detriment Posted Image


There is so much wrong in this post...

Corvettes have not ever been straight-line warriors. They have always been agile for their time relative to the competition, and continue to be so. It wasn't Porsche that got complained about so hard the SCCA banned a generation of them from the normal racing series due to winning all the time. Until the recent generation of Porsche 911s, the Corvette held more records on multi-faceted tracks like the 'Ring...it's still pretty high up on the list (13) with the now aged C6 ZR1; only the GT2 RS and the 918 are above it from Porsche. And how about a short, technical track like Maza Raceway Laguna Seca, where the only Porsche topping the Corvette is the million-dollar 918? And Randy Pobst drives all of them, so it's probably one of the best tracks to use when drawing performance comparisons.

And after all that, Corvettes actually don't use much more fuel than a Porsche, if any really. The US EPA fuel economy ratings (which are produced against a more rigorous criteria than EU fuel economy numbers) are about the same, and in practice both cars get much better than that. I drive one, an older one, even, which should not be getting even 27 MPG according to its sticker but does far better than that at 30-32. Around town it's about 18.

Porsche makes a fine car, but its primary strengths over the Corvette are not really technical, they are about production values. And the 911 is an inherently bad design made good through work-arounds; the Cayman is the better car.

/Corvette owner salty about the common misrepresentation.

#123 cazidin

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:10 AM

View PostSplashDown, on 11 March 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

I must say its nice to see some-1 write an honest post wich is few and far between on these threads...most of these post seem to be based on..(I want my new toy to be OP)

The quirks are fine and reasonable the way they are


No. They really aren't. The structure quirks might as well not exist for how incredibly weak they are and the weapon quirks are either lackluster or nonexistent. The only decent quirks it has are for agility. Comparing it to the last 3 mechs that PGI released it got the short end of the stick. Comparing it to mechs of similar tonnage or that perform a similar role? Why would I take an Archer over them when for the most part the Geometry looks to be worse?

#124 Alwrathandabout42ninjas

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:10 AM

Underwhelming quirks but I have an idea.

Hero has 5% missile heat gen. How about giving every single archer 10% missile heat gen, lrm heat gen an additional 10%? That way they produce less heat when firing there lrm's and when it comes time to defend itself or attack with lasers, it wont be too hot to do so. Also for the love of god normalize the structure bonuses across all the variants, and give the hero some agility quirks.

Edited by Alwrath, 11 March 2016 - 08:13 AM.


#125 Dremnon

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:22 AM

@Splash,

So one person rights a post saying he quirks are good and 100 write that the quirks are lack luster and/or confusing and the one person is being honest? Interesting line of thought.

This isn't about the new toy being OP, this is about how confusing these quirks are, especially considering and comparing the previous three packages that were released and how they were quirked. It would be nice to see what the dev's line of thoughts were when these mechs were quirked and what role they see them filling.

Honestly, it would be nice just to see some consistency in the system.

Edited by Dremnon, 11 March 2016 - 08:22 AM.


#126 cazidin

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:23 AM

View PostDremnon, on 11 March 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

@Splash,

So one person rights a post saying he quirks are good and 100 write that the quirks are lack luster and/or confusing and the one person is being honest? Interesting line of thought.

This isn't about the new toy being OP, this is about how confusing these quirks are, especially considering and comparing the previous three packages that were released and how they were quirked. It would be nice to see what the dev's line of thoughts were when these mechs were quirked and what role they see them filling.

Honestly, it would be nice just to see some consistency in the system.


In Splashes defense, I've made 4 posts in this thread. Posted Image

#127 Mizore

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:28 AM

View PostOderint dum Metuant, on 11 March 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

The more i look at those quirks the more disappointing it is. No thought has gone into them.


The same here... at first I was so excited about the Archer, but now that I see the quirks I'm even thinking about a refund.
With these quirks the Archer will be far worse than other missile "boats".

#128 Xavori

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:29 AM

View PostAlwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

Hero has 5% missile heat gen. How about giving every single archer 10% missile heat gen? That way they produce less heat when firing there lrm's and when it comes time to defend itself or attack with lasers, it wont be too hot to do so. Also for the love of god normalize the structure bonuses across all the variants, and stop giving the hero the most structure behind a P2W money wall.


That still leaves it worse than quite a few current missile friendly mechs.

Honestly, just copy paste the quirks from the COM-3A, JR7-D, LCT-3S, RVN-3L, HBK-4J, TBT-3C (very LRM friendly), CPLT-A1 (the splatapult), QKD-4H, STK-5M (arguably best LRM boat in the game currently), AWS-8R (another possible best LRM boat), MAL-1R, or VTR-9S (you can leave out its ballistic quirks...obvious reasons),

Oh, and that list isn't all of them, just the ones that are way, way obviously better than the Archer when it comes to missiles (and usually energy as well).

#129 Oderint dum Metuant

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:32 AM

View PostMizore, on 11 March 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

The same here... at first I was so excited about the Archer, but now that I see the quirks I'm even thinking about a refund.
With these quirks the Archer will be far worse than other missile "boats".


Don't really lose anything buy refunding, if they actually do a proper quirk pass later on it, it can be brought then.
Instead my package money can go on Division and Total War next month.

It's a win-win for me if i so chose.

Edited by Oderint dum Metuant, 11 March 2016 - 08:36 AM.


#130 Oberost

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:34 AM

Regarding Russ answer in Twitter, if these quirks are so weak because there are going to happen a lot of things (rescale and the new heat scale) and this will force a complete look at quirks, why don't you (PGI) apply a set of quirks adequate for the state of the game right now (for example like the rest of the unseen) and look at them after all this changes takes place?

Otherwise we're going to play with a mech gimped for some time because "in the future" its quirks are going to be ok...

Edited by Oberost, 11 March 2016 - 08:36 AM.


#131 Zerberus

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:39 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 11 March 2016 - 08:06 AM, said:


There is so much wrong in this post...

Corvettes have not ever been straight-line warriors. They have always been agile for their time relative to the competition, and continue to be so. It wasn't Porsche that got complained about so hard the SCCA banned a generation of them from the normal racing series due to winning all the time. Until the recent generation of Porsche 911s, the Corvette held more records on multi-faceted tracks like the 'Ring...it's still pretty high up on the list (13) with the now aged C6 ZR1; only the GT2 RS and the 918 are above it from Porsche. And how about a short, technical track like Maza Raceway Laguna Seca, where the only Porsche topping the Corvette is the million-dollar 918? And Randy Pobst drives all of them, so it's probably one of the best tracks to use when drawing performance comparisons.

And after all that, Corvettes actually don't use much more fuel than a Porsche, if any really. The US EPA fuel economy ratings (which are produced against a more rigorous criteria than EU fuel economy numbers) are about the same, and in practice both cars get much better than that. I drive one, an older one, even, which should not be getting even 27 MPG according to its sticker but does far better than that at 30-32. Around town it's about 18.

Porsche makes a fine car, but its primary strengths over the Corvette are not really technical, they are about production values. And the 911 is an inherently bad design made good through work-arounds; the Cayman is the better car.

/Corvette owner salty about the common misrepresentation.

With all due respect, You can be as salty as you want, that doesn´t necessarily make you right or in any other way add weight to your statements. It only means you may be to emotionally vested in the subject matter to stay calm and rational when discussing it. That is not an accusation. Posted Image

FTR, I also own a Corvette, a black 1976 (*edit* 1972, stupid tablet and fatass fingers...*) C3 ZR-1 that rolled off the line the same day I did, to be exact. And I used to drive a 1978 Porsche RS 2.7, which I sold specifically to purchase said Corvette for reasons other than performance (and in retrospect, that was very stupid from an investment perspective.)

Regardless of that entirely irrelevant fact, You appear to be discounting about 50 years of both vehicle´s historys so as to be able use only the last 10-15 to make a blanket statement about performance, while I am talking 1947 (1953 in teh case of Corvettes) - present viewed as a whole. Modern history does not overwrite or take precedence to older history, nor does it make statements about that history any less valid simply by measure of them not being equally true when applied to modern iterations of the vehicles. Posted Image

Now, can we get back to teh archer? *raises beer stein

Edited by Zerberus, 11 March 2016 - 08:49 AM.


#132 Mawai

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:43 AM

Just to throw my 2 cents in :)

I agree that since all the archers are essentially missile mechs, they should have had missile quirks over energy ones in general. The 5S doesn't seem to make much sense to me.

On the other hand, maybe they are just trying to cater to the meta by providing an archer with some energy quirks so that folks could run it as an energy mech with missile support ... as opposed to a missile mech with some energy support.

#133 cazidin

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:44 AM

View PostOberost, on 11 March 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

Regarding Russ answer in Twitter, if these quirks are so weak because there are going to happen a lot of things (rescale and the new heat scale) and this will force a complete look at quirks, why don't you (PGI) apply a set of quirks adequate for the state of the game right now (for example like the rest of the unseen) and look at them after all this changes takes place?

Otherwise we're going to play with a mech gimped for some time because "in the future" its quirks are going to be ok...


Honestly, that's the same logic for why Ferrous Fibrous armour doesn't provide additional protection. They may add Hardened Armor in the future. That's why IS lasers have 50% shorter range than Clan ERs. They may add ER lasers to the IS in the future. Etc.

#134 Gyrok

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:54 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 10 March 2016 - 06:21 PM, said:

Which is what raises red flags on the Tempest. Is ECM really that big a buff (in the underhive maybe) to negate all agility quirks? I dunno. I guess I'll find out on Tuesday, lol.

I mean it's all speculation till then. I was also wondering on how the missile doors will be, and/or/if they'll have any impact.

Like I said, not raging here, but am a tad perplexed.


yeah, what no 50% Missile Cooldowns on the 5Wolfy? Posted Image


A missile boat with ECM....maybe the scrub queue will get out of the Atlas now and into something that does not eat assault tonnage...

#135 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 08:56 AM

View PostGyrok, on 11 March 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

A missile boat with ECM....maybe the scrub queue will get out of the Atlas now and into something that does not eat assault tonnage...

If that were the case, wouldn't they have switched to the Griffin a long time ago?

#136 Gyrok

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:04 AM

View PostQuicksilver Kalasa, on 11 March 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

If that were the case, wouldn't they have switched to the Griffin a long time ago?


Not enough tonnage to bring enough ammo...you have to think like the scrub queue guys...

They get in that Atlas because they can bring LRM30-40 whatever it is...and like...15 tons of ammo with no back up weapons. That way they *NEVER* run out of LRMs.

This Archer might get close enough to that to make it work.

On the GRF-2N they cannot put enough ammo on it to reliably break 200 damage...predominantly because 75% of their ammo goes into rocks/trees/misses/friendlies/bridges/etc. However...do not try to tell them that 25% is terrible hit rate...

#137 Xavori

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:13 AM

View PostGyrok, on 11 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:


Not enough tonnage to bring enough ammo...you have to think like the scrub queue guys...


My trollbuild Atlas D-DC has 14 tons of LRM ammo, 2xLRM15's, 2x-ER PPC, with ECM and AMS.

No other build generates the amount of salt from both teammates as well as opponents as that thing Posted Image

#138 Ted Wayz

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:14 AM

View Postcazidin, on 11 March 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:


No. They really aren't. The structure quirks might as well not exist for how incredibly weak they are and the weapon quirks are either lackluster or nonexistent. The only decent quirks it has are for agility. Comparing it to the last 3 mechs that PGI released it got the short end of the stick. Comparing it to mechs of similar tonnage or that perform a similar role? Why would I take an Archer over them when for the most part the Geometry looks to be worse?

It has more structure quirks than the Rifleman.

#139 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:16 AM

View PostGyrok, on 11 March 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

On the GRF-2N they cannot put enough ammo on it to reliably break 200 damage...predominantly because 75% of their ammo goes into rocks/trees/misses/friendlies/bridges/etc. However...do not try to tell them that 25% is terrible hit rate...

If Jman can mount around 9 tons of ammo in his HBK-4J, I'm pretty sure the Griffin can mount enough ammo, it just doesn't have the allure the Atlas does which I'm pretty is the reason people will still not take the Archer over their lrm Atlases and Stalkers.

#140 Malleus011

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Posted 11 March 2016 - 09:17 AM

It's baffling to me why all the Archers did not get modest missile spread and heat gen quirks. They're the premier missile carries of the IS arsenal. Way to miss the point with your laser quirks.

The ARC-2R at the very least should get an LRM20 cooldown quirk, just so it can hope to compete with Catapults and other existing missile boats.

Also, they're a max armor 'mech in the stock form. If anything deserves some durability buffs, it would be the Archer and its reputation for toughness.

On the QA error listing the wrong load out and engine - it's more than that. They took the Desktop and other background screen grabs with that variant instead of the ARC-2R(S). So they've been using the wrong 'mech for a while now.

Posted Image

Edited by Malleus011, 11 March 2016 - 09:30 AM.






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