283 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Moldur, on 11 March 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

Do you see the hardpoints on the Archer? What exactly are people expecting for quirks?

Something comparable to the Warhammer or Cataphract, basically.

[wanderer]

https://twitter.com/...146510169395200

Quote

also buffing LRM is always tenuous in MWO community - we will see I guess

...meanwhile, there's a small mountain of IS Mechs with "generic" quirks that beat the Archer to heck and back. And the Mad Dog, of course.

Russ. Pls. Stahp.

Roadkill, on 11 March 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

I don't think "same" means what Russ thinks it means.

Warhammer +30% PPC velocity
Archer +10% LRM velocity

HEY RUSS, THAT'S NOT SAME.

Well, maybe in how much "meh" it produces in the general population.

Gyrok, on 11 March 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

FTFY!

Lost of misquotes lately...what is up with that?

I blame Comic Sans. It is the Printer's Devil.

[Bishop Steiner]

Moldur, on 11 March 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

Do you see the hardpoints on the Archer? What exactly are people expecting for quirks?

1) Hardpoint Quantity and Type VARY by Chassis.
2) Missiles: Not Exactly Meta

So based on those 2 facts, One might reasonably expect to see a MEch like the ARC-2R with it's Grand Total of THREE Missile Racks, or the ARC-Tempest with TWO, to see some moderate buffs, particularly in line with the Stock Weapon System. a 15-20% Tightening of the Pattern, for instance, and either a 10% cooldown, or 10% Heat Reduction for Missiles.

Obviously, one doesn't give the ARC-5W a 40% Missile Cooldown. But again, a Pattern Tightening, or Heat Gen? Why Not?

So now that we've (again) shot down the Hypberolistic Chicken Little Scenarios, hey, let's talk about the for real scenarios?

[Ted Wayz]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

Obviously, one doesn't give the ARC-5W a 40% Missile Cooldown. But again, a Pattern Tightening, or Heat Gen? Why Not?

Because they already tightened patterns for all launchers. They gave velocity, cooldown and heat gen spread about the chassis' for a reason that people who use LRMs know about. LRMs are in a very good place. The only fear is that over quirking will push the mech into OP and all of a sudden make people question missiles again instead of the mech.

There was a very informative thread about missiles. My big concern is that the people that provided valuable feedback are not the ones asking for change.

Edited by Ted Wayz, 11 March 2016 - 07:40 PM.

[cazidin]

Ted Wayz, on 11 March 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Because they already tightened patterns for all launchers. They gave velocity, cooldown and heat gen spread about the chassis' for a reason that people who use LRMs know about. LRMs are in a very good place. The only fear is that over quirking will push the mech into OP and all of a sudden make people question missiles again instead of the mech.

There was a very informative thread about missiles. My big concern is that the people that provided valuable feedback are not the ones asking for change.

They DID slightly tighten the base spread of LRM 10, 15 and 20 the bigger the launcher the worse it is still. 5+ meter spread is far from ideal. Add to that the tremendous weight and cooldown? You can see why most people consider LRMs to be sub par weapons.

[Gyrok]

cazidin, on 11 March 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

They DID slightly tighten the base spread of LRM 10, 15 and 20 the bigger the launcher the worse it is still. 5+ meter spread is far from ideal. Add to that the tremendous weight and cooldown? You can see why most people consider LRMs to be sub par weapons.

That plus ECM counters LRMs

Plus insane travel time

Plus terrain counters LRMs

Plus Radar Derp

Plus UAVs can be shot down easily

Plus Tag requires LoS

Plus minimum range

Plus...

You get the idea...

LRMs suck, and not just because of damage spread.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ted Wayz, on 11 March 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Because they already tightened patterns for all launchers. They gave velocity, cooldown and heat gen spread about the chassis' for a reason that people who use LRMs know about. LRMs are in a very good place. The only fear is that over quirking will push the mech into OP and all of a sudden make people question missiles again instead of the mech.

There was a very informative thread about missiles. My big concern is that the people that provided valuable feedback are not the ones asking for change.

Yes, LRM, the Secret Meta of the Ninja.

Keep posting, you give me a good laugh.

[Navid A1]

Ted Wayz, on 11 March 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Because they already tightened patterns for all launchers. They gave velocity, cooldown and heat gen spread about the chassis' for a reason that people who use LRMs know about. LRMs are in a very good place. The only fear is that over quirking will push the mech into OP and all of a sudden make people question missiles again instead of the mech.

There was a very informative thread about missiles. My big concern is that the people that provided valuable feedback are not the ones asking for change.

Not sure if you don't know LRMs or you're just confused about what place is a good place...?!?!

[Bishop Steiner]

Navid A1, on 11 March 2016 - 10:19 PM, said:

Not sure if you don't know LRMs or you're just confused about what place is a good place...?!?!

[lavamor]

Crappy quirks to say the least... :/ I sure do hope they will be at least durable...

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

1) Hardpoint Quantity and Type VARY by Chassis.
2) Missiles: Not Exactly Meta

So based on those 2 facts, One might reasonably expect to see a MEch like the ARC-2R with it's Grand Total of THREE Missile Racks, or the ARC-Tempest with TWO, to see some moderate buffs, particularly in line with the Stock Weapon System. a 15-20% Tightening of the Pattern, for instance, and either a 10% cooldown, or 10% Heat Reduction for Missiles.

I like Tempest quirks.
The fact is, as you said, it has only 2 (or three) missile racks...and 4 up to 6 energy hardpoints.
Missile is not its primary weapon system. Yea, I know, lore says otherwise...
They made it a brawler, which makes sense, imo.
Let's see its "real" quirks"

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 March 2016 - 04:50 AM, said:

I like Tempest quirks.
The fact is, as you said, it has only 2 (or three) missile racks...and 4 up to 6 energy hardpoints.
Missile is not its primary weapon system. Yea, I know, lore says otherwise...
They made it a brawler, which makes sense, imo.
Let's see its "real" quirks"

mild structure and poor mobility...IDK if that'll make for a great brawler.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 March 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

mild structure and poor mobility...IDK if that'll make for a great brawler.

haven't said great

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 March 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

haven't said great

Guess my Issue with so much of the way people look at this game is People look at a Long Range Support Mech, immediately try to figure out how to make it into laservomit or splat build, then will not be happy til the Devs change the quirks to make said long range support mech into the antithesis of the actual intended design.

[FLG 01]

This is indeed a mentality I have a hard time understanding, both as a BT-fan and as a gamer. The Archer is known for its LRM, so why should it be pressed-ganged into SRM or laser-builds and work out as well as dedicated brawlers?

Complaints are valid if it turns out to be a subpar LRM-Mech, but it was always vulnerable in close range combat.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 March 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

Guess my Issue with so much of the way PGI look at this game is People PGI look at a Long Range Support Mech, immediately try to figure out how to make it into laservomit or splat build, then will not be happy til the Devs change the quirks to make said long range support mech into the antithesis of the actual intended design.

I had to correct for truth.

Well, pgi doesn't care about lore, sadly. It's a well known issue.
Anyway I can understand if they at least are trying to give different "flavors" to 4 variants.

If u ask me, I'm not happy pgi ignores the lore.
But it is what it is.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 12 March 2016 - 05:24 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 March 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

I had to correct for truth.

Well, pgi doesn't care about lore, sadly. It's a well known issue.
Anyway I can understand if they at least are trying to give different "flavors" to 4 variants.

If u ask me, I'm not happy pgi ignores the lore.
But it is what it is.

sorry, but most of our problems? HAve their genesis in these very forums. The players are their own worst enemy.

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 March 2016 - 05:46 AM, said:

sorry, but most of our problems? HAve their genesis in these very forums. The players are their own worst enemy.

I don't agree with this.
A dev team should have its own design, its own ideas and planning.
Listening to community is good, but its own project comes first.

Go to see hbs forum. There is a forum section in which you can post your suggestion, ask dev for stuff, and Mitch answers there.
No twitter.
And it is very clear they have their own plan/design, 'cause they listen, and also answer "NOPE" if something doesn't go with thier plan.
https://community.ba...s/categories/25

Also, I couldn't find any trolling on forum, or ppl going nuts.

One dev team knows what they want to do and how to do it, the other doesn't.
(Which is the main reason I decided not to be a founder, back in the days.... meanwhile, I'm a first day minute backer with BT-hbs)

edit: "The players are their own worst enemy." it all depends on pgi.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 12 March 2016 - 06:06 AM.

[Navid A1]

Stefka Kerensky, on 12 March 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

I don't agree with this.
A dev team should have its own design, its own ideas and planning.
Listening to community is good, but its own project comes first.

Go to see hbs forum. There is a forum section in which you can post your suggestion, ask dev for stuff, and Mitch answers there.
No twitter.
And it is very clear they have their own plan/design, 'cause they listen, and also answer "NOPE" if something doesn't go with thier plan.
https://community.ba...s/categories/25

Also, I couldn't find any trolling on forum, or ppl going nuts.

One dev team knows what they want to do and how to do it, the other doesn't.
(Which is the main reason I decided not to be a founder, back in the days.... meanwhile, I'm a first day minute backer with BT-hbs)

edit: "The players are their own worst enemy." it all depends on pgi.

Well, there are some differences between PGI and HBS

PGI acquired the IP and began developing a genre they had ZERO experience with (I even think that they bought the pre-written code from someone else). They tried to learn and experienced at the cost of player frustrations.
Players started to give feedback on the forums and the devs often responded to those feedbacks.

The problem was that they had set the end goal on an un-realistically high level. They had a great vision for MWO, yet they did not know that they are not capable of making those visions a reality (Zero experience played the part here). As time went by, players were asking about the promised features and stuff while PGI was just trying to learn the ropes.

As a result, forums became salty and toxic and there was a mass dev exodus from the forums.
Lack of experience and not having a distinct goal lead to russ being the only communicating figure. I think he is concerned that some of his employees might say something that will be held against the development cycle.

Regarding HBS, i'd say we should give it time. We should wait until a playable version is made available. its too soon to compare. PGI was once as communicative as HBS, if not more.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Ted Wayz, on 11 March 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Because they already tightened patterns for all launchers. They gave velocity, cooldown and heat gen spread about the chassis' for a reason that people who use LRMs know about. LRMs are in a very good place. The only fear is that over quirking will push the mech into OP and all of a sudden make people question missiles again instead of the mech.

There was a very informative thread about missiles. My big concern is that the people that provided valuable feedback are not the ones asking for change.

i asked for the change and i provided feedback
IS LRM 15/20 are about as useful as lead boots - theyre stupidly heavy, large, have a massive spread, not all of their missiles even hit the target at all, and on top of that they suffer from the same problems as the rest of the LRMs, including the minimum range

they tightened the pattern and they STILL suck, and aside from not enough missile hardpoint slot issues, there is literally no reason to use them whatsoever

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 12 March 2016 - 06:20 PM.