259 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

LegendaryArticuno, on 13 March 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

You lore addicts are part of the reason why Mechwarrior is a dying franchise.

There hasn't been any innovation or creativity injected into the IP for decades, i.e. no new mechs with modern designs. Everyone wants customisability and the ability to make a mech uniquely their own without being pigeonholed through too many specific quirks.

Same could be said of Star Wars. Or Star Trek. Guess we shoudl chuck the Lightsabers and Add Cloaking devices to everything, there, too?

The problem with you GenericVanillaWarriors, are you want all games to essentially be the same, and then call it being innovative, or competitive. So go play those games, instead of trying to twist something into what it is not.

And, oddly, the IP seems to be going through a bit of a resurgence, hence the new upcoming game on the IP; the resurgence of the TT game, etc.

Once you twist an IP to the point of being unrecognizable, one is better off with it being dead, anyhow.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 13 March 2016 - 09:19 AM.

[Xavori]

Jenovah, on 12 March 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

2) An over 40 physical/Military physical, etc (prostate exam)

Sadly, I had my first of those at 17 when I joined the Army and went to West Point.

Thankfully, the doctor was tiny Asian woman with skinny fingers. And the truly worst part was the "greasy" feeling while walking until I was able to get to a shower

[Monkey Lover]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

If one wants a splat mech, perhaps they should run an actual splat mech? If one runs an LRM mech, and decides to rig it as a splat mech, they are, IMO, accepting they are running it at (theoretically) less than it's optimal configuration, because the mech was never designed around said weapon.

Without ridiculous Structure buffs, the Archers geometry is already pretty much "dead duck" for people who think they are going to run it as some type of Uber-Splat. And when it (apparently) get's scaled up 8%?

It's a Dragon's CT with MDD STs, on a mech that will only see decent speeds if boating small weapons and a non-clan XL engine. Yup. Should be optimized to Splat!!!

You see, you start quirking it for something it's categorically not meant to do, the next thing is people will start demanding further quirks so that it can actually do that role WELL (SO now we have uber structured and SRM quirked Archer) inevitably drawing the chassis further down the rabbit hole from what it was supposed to do.

Simple fact, with quirks:
-A Mech should always perform it's "lore" role and loadout types at maximum optimacy.
-Mechs certainly can and should be able to be kitted out in different manners but should not be as good as or superior as what they were actually engineered to do, except by dint of sheer playstyle differences/preference.
-Mechs should never be quirked to cater to Meta or playstyle

Like i said before i understand your view but i could core less about lore. Im here to play a game where i can build large mechs and shoot at people.At this point i dont even know what mech you would call a splat mech. All the medium mechs being used to splat right now come with lrms...

Still quirking for lrms +srm doesnt make a mech splat only mech. The 5w is going to need some type of secondary weapon. The 5s comes stock with streaks. Really the only mech you can say that should only get lrm quirks is the 2r by your logic.

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

The problem with you GenericVanillaWarriors, are you want all games to essentially be the same, and then call it being innovative, or competitive. So go play those games, instead of trying to twist something into what it is not.

I am 100% here because i can build mechs and fight them. If this game turned into cod with mechs because all you do is select your stock lore mech i wouldn't play.

[Wintersdark]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

Sadly, I had my first of those at 17 when I joined the Army and went to West Point.

Thankfully, the doctor was tiny Asian woman with skinny fingers. And the truly worst part was the "greasy" feeling while walking until I was able to get to a shower

I have to have that done very soon... and with a large Slavic doctor with huge hands

[LegendaryArticuno]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

Same could be said of Star Wars. Or Star Trek. Guess we shoudl chuck the Lightsabers and Add Cloaking devices to everything, there, too?

The problem with you GenericVanillaWarriors, are you want all games to essentially be the same, and then call it being innovative, or competitive. So go play those games, instead of trying to twist something into what it is not.

And, oddly, the IP seems to be going through a bit of a resurgence, hence the new upcoming game on the IP; the resurgence of the TT game, etc.

Once you twist an IP to the point of being unrecognizable, one is better off with it being dead, anyhow.

Lmao you used Starwars as an example? Welcome to 2016, you must've missed The Force Awakens, everything in Starwars has been redesigned. It's arguable whether it's for better or for worse, but atleast Disney is taking risks and understands that you need innovate to survive.

Mechwarrior is on it's last legs, after PGI is done rehashing everything. There won't be another Mechwarrior.

[Bishop Steiner]

LegendaryArticuno, on 13 March 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

Lmao you used Starwars as an example? Welcome to 2016, you must've missed The Force Awakens, everything in Starwars has been redesigned. It's arguable whether it's for better or for worse, but atleast Disney is taking risks and understands that you need innovate to survive.

Mechwarrior is on it's last legs, after PGI is done rehashing everything. There won't be another Mechwarrior.

I'm sorry, did you watch the Force Awakens? I'm still looking for that "innovation" and "creativity" you are claiming MWO needs...because it sure wasn't in that movie.

Hey look, let's retread Episode IV right down to the macguffin, toss in some fan favorite landscapes from the other movies, and call it a day!

By all means, please keep further eroding even that illusion of credibility that you think you have.

[Barantor]

LegendaryArticuno, on 13 March 2016 - 09:29 AM, said:

Lmao you used Starwars as an example? Welcome to 2016, you must've missed The Force Awakens, everything in Starwars has been redesigned. It's arguable whether it's for better or for worse, but atleast Disney is taking risks and understands that you need innovate to survive.

Mechwarrior is on it's last legs, after PGI is done rehashing everything. There won't be another Mechwarrior.

Starwars actually "redesigned" the x wing after the original McQuarrie prototype designs, not 'from scratch'. Literally the earliest lore there is.

If we keep generalizing the quirks there will be no reason to add any new mechs as you will be able to just pick the one with the best mountings and be done.

I don't like the quirk system myself, but if they are keeping it then using the lore as a model for what the mech was designed for isn't a bad system.

[Bishop Steiner]

Monkey Lover, on 13 March 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

I am 100% here because i can build mechs and fight them. If this game turned into cod with mechs because all you do is select your stock lore mech i wouldn't play.

At what point did I say that? Making a straw man are we?

Well, I'll take your straw man further... I'd prefer you not to be here and roll the dice on MWOs survival than to see the game become MechAssault 3.0

This is not a knock on you as a person, so much as my opinion on people who come to an IP; then say the IPs history and lore are irrelevant give me a generic stompy shooter.

Sorry, there are plenty of those. Stop trying to force this to be one of them.

[LegendaryArticuno]

Well you got a twisted view on lore. In lore mechs were customized with different loadouts all the time.

[Monkey Lover]

Barantor, on 13 March 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Starwars actually "redesigned" the x wing after the original McQuarrie prototype designs, not 'from scratch'. Literally the earliest lore there is.

If we keep generalizing the quirks there will be no reason to add any new mechs as you will be able to just pick the one with the best mountings and be done.

I don't like the quirk system myself, but if they are keeping it then using the lore as a model for what the mech was designed for isn't a bad system.

This isnt true for everything, you still have to have a large number of mechs to make CW drop decks of the type you want.

Not even mech has key equipment and for what i can tell this is what pgi is using to sell new mechs. IE,masc ecm,jj

Then you have the different shapes and locations of hardpoints.

Quirks isnt everything its just to balance the mechs.

[Barantor]

LegendaryArticuno, on 13 March 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Well you got a twisted view on lore. In lore mechs were customized with different loadouts all the time.

LOL

[Monkey Lover]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 09:36 AM, said:

This is not a knock on you as a person, so much as my opinion on people who come to an IP; then say the IPs history and lore are irrelevant give me a generic stompy shooter.

I never said they were irrelevant i said i don't care about it. I don't know the lore, i don't plan on learning the lore i just like playing the game. So when i am told we can't do something because the lore and not because it will make the game worse i dont agree with it. On the other hand im sure the lore has some great ideas and ways to improve the game.



I been looking for another game like mech warrior where you can build your "something" online and fight them in a group. What suggestions would you have?

[Barantor]

Monkey Lover, on 13 March 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

This isnt true for everything, you still have to have a large number of mechs to make CW drop decks of the type you want.

Not even mech has key equipment and for what i can tell this is what pgi is using to sell new mechs. IE,masc ecm,jj

Then you have the different shapes and locations of hardpoints.

Quirks isnt everything its just to balance the mechs.

There have already been folks on this forum, reddit and even in game that I have seen type in "why get this one when it does the same as X mech". Many of the all energy build mechs get this mostly because it is pretty hard to make them feel unique when you can put the same build in them.

Quirks can make two mechs with similar hardpoints unique from each other, which is the only benefit I see from it at the moment. An energy mech that uses lots of large lasers should be buffed in those and then another that has PPCs should be buffed in that so we don't get the same builds across all of them.

Of course, I'm one for sized hardpoints with quirk specific hardpoints too... so I know I'm not in line with everyone.

[Monkey Lover]

Barantor, on 13 March 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

There have already been folks on this forum, reddit and even in game that I have seen type in "why get this one when it does the same as X mech". Many of the all energy build mechs get this mostly because it is pretty hard to make them feel unique when you can put the same build in them.

Quirks can make two mechs with similar hardpoints unique from each other, which is the only benefit I see from it at the moment. An energy mech that uses lots of large lasers should be buffed in those and then another that has PPCs should be buffed in that so we don't get the same builds across all of them.

Of course, I'm one for sized hardpoints with quirk specific hardpoints too... so I know I'm not in line with everyone.

Well hopefully in the future the weapons balance/mech scales will be improved and the smaller quirks they could use to make mechs unique will still not effect the choices as much as today.

[Oberost]

LegendaryArticuno, on 13 March 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Well you got a twisted view on lore. In lore mechs were customized with different loadouts all the time.

No.

Go read some BT books.

[Barantor]

Monkey Lover, on 13 March 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

This isnt true for everything, you still have to have a large number of mechs to make CW drop decks of the type you want.

Not even mech has key equipment and for what i can tell this is what pgi is using to sell new mechs. IE,masc ecm,jj

Then you have the different shapes and locations of hardpoints.

Quirks isnt everything its just to balance the mechs.

It isn't everything, but I would rather the key role of mechs that have obvious ones be given quirks based upon that rather than generic ones. A catapult is an Iconic LRM mech (not counting the one off K2 and PGIs hero) and thus should have quirks that reflect that role.

It shouldn't get generic quirks because "LRMs are bad", rather they should fix LRMs and then we have a better overall game.

I don't mind folks customizing the mechs, that is part of Mechwarrior, but Mechwarrior itself and the mechs that are in it come from Battletech and thus should represent them well. The diversity of the Mechs in Battletech is part of what made it popular, as much as the lore and the books. Representing that in this game in whatever ways they can would go a long way into making this a more robust and interesting title rather than an arena shooter with robots.

[Bishop Steiner]

LegendaryArticuno, on 13 March 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Well you got a twisted view on lore. In lore mechs were customized with different loadouts all the time.

Uh, no, actually they weren't.

[Bishop Steiner]

Monkey Lover, on 13 March 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

I never said they were irrelevant i said i don't care about it. I don't know the lore, i don't plan on learning the lore i just like playing the game. So when i am told we can't do something because the lore and not because it will make the game worse i dont agree with it. On the other hand im sure the lore has some great ideas and ways to improve the game.



I been looking for another game like mech warrior where you can build your "something" online and fight them in a group. What suggestions would you have?

Hawken is supposed to be rebooting.

Or conversely, you could hear what I actually said in this post

Bishop Steiner, on 13 March 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

Simple fact, with quirks:
-A Mech should always perform it's "lore" role and loadout types at maximum optimacy.
-Mechs certainly can and should be able to be kitted out in different manners but should not be as good as or superior as what they were actually engineered to do, except by dint of sheer playstyle differences/preference.
-Mechs should never be quirked to cater to Meta or playstyle

Which in no way takes away choice, but DOES reward staying closer to what the mech was meant to do.

The simple fact that we have uberquirks at all, of course, is a pressing but different issue.

[anonymous161]

The whole game is overquirked lighten up the quirking and just make the mechs how they are supposed to be from the beginning I can understand small quirks but some mechs become either op or mostly useless.

[Monkey Lover]

Barantor, on 13 March 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

It isn't everything, but I would rather the key role of mechs that have obvious ones be given quirks based upon that rather than generic ones. A catapult is an Iconic LRM mech (not counting the one off K2 and PGIs hero) and thus should have quirks that reflect that role.

It shouldn't get generic quirks because "LRMs are bad", rather they should fix LRMs and then we have a better overall game.

I don't mind folks customizing the mechs, that is part of Mechwarrior, but Mechwarrior itself and the mechs that are in it come from Battletech and thus should represent them well. The diversity of the Mechs in Battletech is part of what made it popular, as much as the lore and the books. Representing that in this game in whatever ways they can would go a long way into making this a more robust and interesting title rather than an arena shooter with robots.

"A catapult is an Iconic LRM mech"

This is where we differ. Its an Iconic LRM boat to you but its not to me. Its just another mech. I know nothing about the history of the catapult, i dont know where it was made or who used it. If anything its a iconic srm boat to me because it was the splat cat.

anonymous161, on 13 March 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

The whole game is overquirked lighten up the quirking and just make the mechs how they are supposed to be from the beginning I can understand small quirks but some mechs become either op or mostly useless.

Hopefully the rescale is going to help a lot of the mega quirks.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 13 March 2016 - 10:17 AM.