259 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Graugger, on 11 March 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

Wait Paul's revising the quirks!

Oh noes it's going to have -% cooldown nerfs instead of buffs!

Actually, Paul was specific he has nothing to do with the Quirks, but that the Quirk Fairy had heard our plea and was going to see about delivering us something other than a lump of coal.

[Sjorpha]

As the Nerfinator puddled through the tier 4 rain of LRMs in his griefer MKiV, flailing hopelessly back and forth between trying to reach cover and trying to get closer to the enemies, his mind grew ever darker as he crawled out of his smouldering metal carcass, still clutching the nerf gun in his hand. Slowly he stumbled towards his office, still a few precious hours before the patch would go to Q&A...

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[Otto Cannon]

LRM20 cooldown and heat 20%. Give us a reason to use it on at least one mech in the game.

[Monkey Lover]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

Actually, it's better that mechs do what they weren't designed and meant to do, and if you want to do something else, you choose the appropriate chassis for it.

Making all mechs into vanilla jack of all meta trades just really makes creating "new" mechs totally pointless, in general.

My favorite part about mech warriors is building mechs not collecting them. I dont want to me told this is lrm boat and here is your lrm 20 to put on it.

New mechs are not pointless to me when they're a different weight, size,type,hard points or equipment.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 March 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[Jman5]

[Ted Wayz]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Actually, Paul was specific he has nothing to do with the Quirks, but that the Quirk Fairy had heard our plea and was going to see about delivering us something other than a lump of coal.

So there was this post awhile back about how it is not a good thing that PGI holds us responsible to fix their mistakes. Like posting their loadouts instead of stock. Or worse as discovered lately.

And did they read the post or respond to twitter?

And is their hearing selective? If so I would make sure that your representatives really care about what you want and not what their ego desires. And keep in mind that most who play do not frequent these forums and they leave as silently as they join.

Good luck.

[wanderer]

Ted Wayz, on 11 March 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

They buff the primaries of weapon systems they think are weak (ballistics which includes PPC) and buff secondary weapons for mechs with primary weapons that are strong (lazers and believe it or not missiles).

Those LRM-specific quirks were so strong on the 2R, and the 5% buffs were Clanlike in their potency on the others.

Quote

Serious folks, you really do not know what havok you are literally bringing down on your head. Making the missile systems on these mechs more powerful is really not something you want.

But please push PGI to do so. Your future missile overlords thank you.

What, you mean LRMs might actually....ahaha....actually be second-rate instead of third-rate? Because that's what I was expecting. An LRM 'Mech. With LRM quirks. Or generic, weaker missile quirks.

No. At best, we'll see the same quirks we do on most missile boats, meaning it'll perform up to their level of snuff. I wasn't expecting more, or thinking we'd get more. PGI fears their own worst weapon even as Metamechs is a long line of lasers, Gauss, and the occasional SRM for brawling lulz. The only potential quirk-breaker could have been the -5W.

[Bishop Steiner]

wanderer, on 11 March 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

Those LRM-specific quirks were so strong on the 2R, and the 5% buffs were Clanlike in their potency on the others.



What, you mean LRMs might actually....ahaha....actually be second-rate instead of third-rate? Because that's what I was expecting. An LRM 'Mech. With LRM quirks. Or generic, weaker missile quirks.

No. At best, we'll see the same quirks we do on most missile boats, meaning it'll perform up to their level of snuff. I wasn't expecting more, or thinking we'd get more. PGI fears their own worst weapon even as Metamechs is a long line of lasers, Gauss, and the occasional SRM for brawling lulz. The only potential quirk-breaker could have been the -5W.

Yes. Soon we'll be bowing to Ted and his Ninja Missile Meta Masters as our new Meta Overlords. 228 and EMP will come, scraping their knees to beg for his wisdom!

Tremble Underhive, TREMBLE!!!!!

[wanderer]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 March 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

Yes. Soon we'll be bowing to Ted and his Ninja Missile Meta Masters as our new Meta Overlords. 228 and EMP will come, scraping their knees to beg for his wisdom!

Tremble Underhive, TREMBLE!!!!!

I can only hope to be prepared as this guy.

[El Bandito]

Also, Archer is slated to be increased in size later on. Russ himself had admitted that the Archer was 8% under-scaled.

[dwwolf]

God forbid LRM20s on whats supposed to be the IS LRM mech actually being usefull.

My take ( where appropriate )
LRM20 spread reduction to LRM15 levels.
10% missile flight speed and range bonus.
20% LRM lockon time bonus.

[Bishop Steiner]

dwwolf, on 11 March 2016 - 11:09 PM, said:

God forbid LRM20s on whats supposed to be the IS LRM mech actually being usefull.

My take ( where appropriate )
LRM20 spread reduction to LRM15 levels.
10% missile flight speed and range bonus.
20% LRM lockon time bonus.

But but but LRM20s make my mechlab damage ratings so high!!!! (Same reasoning behind taking SRM6s vs much more efficient and focused SRM4s)

[C E Dwyer]

Queen of England, on 11 March 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

They're still finalizing the quirks a few days before the patch goes live? That's surprising. There's only 1 working day left before its released.

You should know by now that P.G.I never screw up, and if they can make that happen less they work 24 hour weekeneds to stop it from happening.

wanderer, on 11 March 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

I can only hope to be prepared as this guy.

So that guy takes a sex toy into combat ?

[FLG 01]

Otto Cannon, on 11 March 2016 - 09:24 PM, said:

LRM20 cooldown and heat 20%. Give us a reason to use it on at least one mech in the game.

Not only qft, but also because the LRM20 is the signature weapon of the base Archer (and the newly introduced Hero). PGI gave heavy quirks to the (also less-than-optimal) signature weapon of the Marauder and Warhammer: the PPC.

Just do it again, give significant quirks to the signature weapon of the Archer.

Edited by FLG 01, 12 March 2016 - 05:23 AM.

[Aetes Nakatomi]

Cathy, on 12 March 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

So that guy takes a sex toy into combat ?

Love is a battlefield?

[Gorgo7]

Damn!
The LRM 20 should have the same spread as the LRM 5...ALL LRM should have the same spreads.
There should be a reason you would take a 10 ton system with a longer cooldown over a 2 ton system with a shorter cooldown.
Hell, they could use the same mechanic as the SSRM's to determine hit locations with a built in randomize to determine whether a given missile even lands in the first place (ala Battletech)
Sheesh!

[C E Dwyer]

dwwolf, on 11 March 2016 - 11:09 PM, said:

God forbid LRM20s on whats supposed to be the IS LRM mech actually being usefull.

My take ( where appropriate )
LRM20 spread reduction to LRM15 levels.
10% missile flight speed and range bonus.
20% LRM lockon time bonus.

With the way that LRM's work in this game, those quirks are probably the only ones that would have me taking an LRM20 over an lrm15, the possible extra 5 spread damage, just isn't worth the weight or heat.

OK brain storming

The reason that LRM 5 is so superior to the others is that its a concentrated hit of five, combined with its crit and weight.

The more missiles you have might hit in larger rings so while your doing more damage, its spread out over the mech, so similar to an indirect LB 10, in effect, but with the 15 and 20 a bigger spread.

LRM 5's along with their short ranged cousin the SRM 2 should be the worse missile systems in the game, but frequently are not, and in the LRM5 case the best option, for multiple launchers over 2. Six chain fired LRM5 are vastly more effective than paired LRM15 and the two tons you save with the lrm 15 are nowhere near compensated for the flexiblity of the LRM5's.


Seems to me the only way to reverse this missile trend of smaller is better is to do one of two things, have missiles hit in clusters similar to the way Clan auto canon works with each cluster being three missiles.

LRM5 two clusters of 3 and 2

LRM10 three clusters of 3 and a single 1 cluster

LRM15 five clusters of 3

LRM 20 six clusters of 3 and one of 2.

It is still, in the case of the lrm 20, 20 missiles hitting in six waves, so easier to spread than a clan auto canon which has far less 'slugs'.


This I think would be a coding nightmare, but it does make the larger launchers more effective, and I'm sure there would be claims of its makes the clan AC's even more useless, though it doesn't, it just uses a similar game mechanic, as they would act like indirect clan LB-x canon if there were such a beast, with all the headaches of holding locks and targets ducking.

Second is much easier to introduce, you have a single spread circle and all parts are used by all launchers, so an unmodified lrm5 spread would be virtually useless.

You then use quirks to concentrate the missile systems

Mechs like the Vindicator and Grass hopper would get quirks to make the LRM5 better than it currently is, as they can't effectively use missile systems except the Vindi hero, because of the hard points or where they are, the head in the Grasshoppers case.

Mechs like the Archer, Catapult, stalker Mauler Highlander etc would get no LRM5 quirks making taking them a bad option, but would get quriks for LRM 15's and 20's to make them more effective.

The base line spread, speed, cool down could then be used for balancing across the game.

I'm sure there will be cries of this is crap, because the lrm5 spam would die that they like to project from their Cat A1 Stalker etc, but bigger should be better, not the other way around.

[Appogee]

All this pre-emptive slavering for quirks to buff a Mech that hasn't even been released yet disgusts me

But seriously, this is what happens when nonsensical balancing mechanics become considered somehow 'normal'.

El Bandito, on 11 March 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Also, Archer is slated to be increased in size later on. Russ himself had admitted that the Archer was 8% under-scaled.

So even during the Great Rescaling, they released a Mech that wasn't correctly scaled...?

They make "amateurish" look like an aspirational standard.

Edited by Appogee, 12 March 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[Triordinant]

sycocys, on 11 March 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

Basically - Paul "leaked" them so he could get some indication of how far off his dart board was.

Does that mean we can expect more "leaks" in the future...?

[El Bandito]

Appogee, on 12 March 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

So even during the Great Rescaling, they released a Mech that wasn't correctly scaled...?

They make "amateurish" look like an aspirational standard.

In Twitter Russ admitted that Archer modeling was done before scaling standard was implemented. Truth, or BS--who knows.

Edited by El Bandito, 12 March 2016 - 06:50 AM.