137 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Alwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Gargoyle runs cooler. Has way more double heatsinks. Also has more firepower cuz 12 energy hardpoints and clan lazor beamz. Black Knight comes close though.

LOL





no

[Tarogato]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 March 2016 - 06:25 PM, said:

No, even if they were tonnage based, why would I take a Gargoyle over a Black Knight. They are both humanoid with low hardpoints, laser vomit 55-58 damage, but the BK runs cooler and has LPL duration, and is 5 tons lighter. I wonder how the Gargoyle would stand up... it would just be hotter I think.

Black Knight is as tanky as an ~87-ton mech and does mid-range. Gargoyle is as tanky as a ~102-ton mech and does brawl.

Also, the BL-KNT does not necessarily run cooler.

If you're going for a brawl, I'd bring the GAR over the BL-KNT. Of course, I'm using gman's builds as reference since I don't own either of these mechs - so I could be missing something, especially if there is a better BL-KNT build.

I'm comparing this BL-KNT: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...438fa431038fbe6
with this Gargoyle: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76072fadf06274a

That BL-KNT puts out ~516 damage in 60 seconds (8.6 dps)
That Gargoyle puts out ~600 damage in 60 seconds (10.0 dps), and it's tankier, and it's faster. Why would you bring the BL-KNT? I suppose if you need to save that 5 tons for something else. Oups, forgot engine heatsinks...
That Gargoyle puts out ~756 damage in 60 seconds (12.6 dps) ... and it's tankier and it's faster. Why bring the BL-KNT to a tonnage brawl if you could bring this beast?

(dps tests performed by importing the smurfy builds to keikun (link here), checking the mech skills, and adding the quirks. Then trying to ride the heat line as hard as possible without overheating, and then stopping after 60 seconds. Tested each build twice for consistency.)

Edited by Tarogato, 11 March 2016 - 08:27 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 March 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

LOL





no

Ok ill take my clan XL400 27 DHS 42 ermed alpha at 450m and 30 ersmall alpha that I can shoot off multiple times in a brawl after I soften you up with ermeds somewhere else then. You are a fool.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Ultimax, on 11 March 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

No, these quirks wouldn't be OP on the Gargoyle.

Its also irrelevant, for all we know they might nuke all quirks from orbit after the the new Ghost Heat MK 2 and start over, Russ has even mentioned as much on twitter.

Jesus christ, not again...

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Tarogato, on 11 March 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

Black Knight is as tanky as an ~87-ton mech and does mid-range. Gargoyle is as tanky as a ~102-ton mech and does brawl.

Also, the BL-KNT does not necessarily run cooler.

If you're going for a brawl, I'd bring the GAR over the BL-KNT. Of course, I'm using gman's builds as reference since I don't own either of these mechs - so I could be missing something, especially if there is a better BL-KNT build.

I'm comparing this BL-KNT: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76072fadf06274a
with this Gargoyle: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...76072fadf06274a

That BL-KNT puts out ~516 damage in 60 seconds (8.6 dps)
That Gargoyle puts out ~600 damage in 60 seconds (10.0 dps), and it's tankier, and it's faster. Why would you bring the BL-KNT? I suppose if you need to save that 5 tons for something else.

(dps tests performed by importing the smurfy builds to keikun (link here), checking the mech skills, and adding the quirks. Then trying to ride the heat line as hard as possible without overheating, and then stopping after 60 seconds. Tested each build twice for consistency.)

oh for the love of pete stop looking up gmans prima strategy guide for noobs. That build is so range limited its not even funny. For a 80 ton mech, its a bad build except for brawling yolo's.

[Deathlike]

I feel bad for Mr. Gargles.

Why can't we have nice things?

[Aresye]

Alwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 06:39 PM, said:

Gargoyle runs cooler. Has way more double heatsinks. Also has more firepower cuz 12 energy hardpoints and clan lazor beamz. Black Knight comes close though.

The Black Knight spits out a 58 damage alpha in 0.77s, which is shorter than even your puny CERSL duration. Good luck trying to trade with something that can shield by the time you're halfway through your laser burn.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

Ok ill take my clan XL400 27 DHS 42 ermed alpha at 450m and 30 ersmall alpha that I can shoot off multiple times in a brawl after I soften you up with etrmeds somewhere else then. You are a fool.

Im not a fool, I'm just in the know.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Aresye, on 11 March 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

The Black Knight spits out a 58 damage alpha in 0.77s, which is shorter than even your puny CERSL duration. Good luck trying to trade with something that can shield by the time you're halfway through your laser burn.

I know what the Black Knight does, thanks. Gargoyle can trade with 6 erml just fine with faster speed. I can shield too. If I get closer to you ( which will always happen in a duel ) then you will get owned by the 30 ersmall alpha combined with the ermed alpha. More firepower. More armor. More speed. Get the picture yet?

Gas Guzzler, on 11 March 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

Im not a fool, I'm just in the know.

clearly your not " in the know " on this one.

Edited by Alwrath, 11 March 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 March 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

got -10% laser duration and -10% Energy Heat gen quirks? Or would it just all of a sudden become sort of viable?

what makes you think your allowed to have nice things?

[Tarogato]

Alwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

oh for the love of pete stop looking up gmans prima strategy guide for noobs. That build is so range limited its not even funny. For a 80 ton mech, its a bad build except for brawling yolo's.

It's not range-limited. It's brawl-limited. You can't use it unless you're guaranteeing yourself a brawl, which is something we do in comp. Call it "brawling yolo" if you want, but it wins games when done properly.

[Deathlike]

Aresye, on 11 March 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

The Black Knight spits out a 58 damage alpha in 0.77s, which is shorter than even your puny CERSL duration. Good luck trying to trade with something that can shield by the time you're halfway through your laser burn.

The CSML is kinda sub-optimal in this instance. You'd more likely want to run something closer to 6CMPL at the very least on the Gargles (my preferred build is 4 CERMED+Gauss, but that's a different matter of course).

I dunno... CSML in this instance is pretty bad... at least you could kinda justify it on a Nova or a Clan Light mech... but CSPL is always more productive based on duration alone.

On the Gargles though, CSPL is a waste (it needs more range than what was provided).

Edited by Deathlike, 11 March 2016 - 07:14 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Tarogato, on 11 March 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

It's not range-limited. It's brawl-limited. You can't use it unless you're guaranteeing yourself a brawl, which is something we do in comp. Call it "brawling yolo" if you want, but it wins games when done properly.

By the mech being brawl limited, it is by definition range limited. Also, I know full well what it could do in a comp match. Are you stupid or just plain dumb?

Deathlike, on 11 March 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

On the Gargles though, CSPL is a waste (it needs more range than what was provided).

I get plenty of range from 6 ermeds. I use 6 ersmalls in addition when things get close. Yes clan spl is a better weapon, but in this builds case the extra tonnage saved contributes to more double heatsinks, which make it a better mech overall. Im sorry I had to explain this to you, it appears we are all not pros at building mechs.

The Gargoyle and Executioner have there own meta builds, most people have not found out about them even still.

Edited by Alwrath, 11 March 2016 - 07:18 PM.

[Deathlike]

Tarogato, on 11 March 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

It's not range-limited. It's brawl-limited. You can't use it unless you're guaranteeing yourself a brawl, which is something we do in comp. Call it "brawling yolo" if you want, but it wins games when done properly.

While the Gargles are limited to being a brawl mech, the BK ironically does it better.

There are very rare instances where you'd want to commit 5 more tons for a Gargles over a Timber/BK, or consume an Clan Assault spot for the mech... primarily because there are many more superior options available.

If you truly need that speed, I guess it "could" be OK for regular matches, but for the purposes of comp play, it's totally an afterthought.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Deathlike, on 11 March 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

While the Gargles are limited to being a brawl mech, the BK ironically does it better.

There are very rare instances where you'd want to commit 5 more tons for a Gargles over a Timber/BK, or consume an Clan Assault spot for the mech... primarily because there are many more superior options available.

If you truly need that speed, I guess it "could" be OK for regular matches, but for the purposes of comp play, it's totally an afterthought.

In comp play, lets say MRBC, you would never take it. The rules benifit heavier assault mechs with more staying power and firepower.

Honestly its more the comp rules fault that the Gargoyle doesnt fit anywhere, not the actual mechs fault, because it truly is under rated.

Its a good thing I dont take MRBC seriously, honestly the tournament rules for it are kinda a simple joke.

Edited by Alwrath, 11 March 2016 - 07:21 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

clearly your not " in the know " on this one.

And what makes you qualified to make such claims? Does your team bring Gargoyles when they play competitively?

[Deathlike]

Alwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

I get plenty of range from 6 ermeds. I use 6 ersmalls in addition when things get close. Yes clan spl is a better weapon, but in this builds case the extra tonnage saved contributes to more double heatsinks, which make it a better mech overall. Im sorry I had to explain this to you, it appears we are all not pros at building mechs.

The Gargoyle and Executioner have there own meta builds, most people have not found out about them even still.

I'm not really liking any massive level of laservomit on the Gargles... it has too many flaws to exploit because of that.

I think you're not understanding why it isn't used. You can build it like a better Nova... but that's back to it being a "better Nova" (Novas have their own flaws). Trying to state it is "I dunno how to build mechs" is showing how much you're not capable of discussing this particular matter.

The Executioner has a place due to high mounts in comp play... the Gargles is not even a consideration.

[Aresye]

Alwrath, on 11 March 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Also, I know full well what it could do in a comp match. Are you stupid or just plain dumb?

LOL, against who? PGI's comp team in MRBC?

Care to post your extensive comp history and success with the Gargoyle in high level comp play? I only ask, because the only thing remotely competitive I know you for, is accusing SJR of cheating on these forums.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 March 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

And what makes you qualified to make such claims? Does your team bring Gargoyles when they play competitively?

Dont have to when the Gargoyle is not brought in comp matches due to the rules.

What makes me qualified to say something on the Gargoyles behalf? I discovered its meta build, something you clearly have not. Thats what makes me qualified. Also, im kinda good at this game. I build mechs, kick ***, and chew bubblegum. Cant argue with that.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Aresye, on 11 March 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

LOL, against who? PGI's comp team in MRBC?

Care to post your extensive comp history and success with the Gargoyle in high level comp play? I only ask, because the only thing remotely competitive I know you for, is accusing SJR of cheating on these forums.

MRBC is alright. Rules are kinda limiting and simple. Which is why the Gargoyle is not used. Also, teams like to aimbot the first few practice rounds then turn it off. Cant really take MRBC seriously honestly.