45 replies to this topic

[Roughneck Cobra]

Just need point out that a Gauss rifle is a charged up bolt essentially, you should feel lucky that charging a gauss or multiple gauss doesnt drain from your mechs power, thus slowing you down to charge, but flickering dash lights would be a cool effect, anyway, if you held the charge on a gauss for a long period, it would simply cripple itself in my mind

The charging is fair, the cooldown, meh, no opinion there, how fragile the damn thing is bugs me but to each their own.

I'd say feel lucky its built the way it is, it is fair to use for its designed purpose.

[brroleg]

eminus, on 12 March 2016 - 10:59 PM, said:

I would like that we can charge our gauss Rifle and it won't reset after some time which is what the design is now. I would like that it will keep on charging until we release the fire button. So in order for this to be balanced let it be that either this will happen:

- charging for too long will risk of having the gun to explode, you will get an audio warning just like what we have in MISC.

Or

- charging it will contribute to the heat of the mech

Or both?

Here i suggested what to do with charging mechanic of Guss (but that will need implementing new functinality to game(which however we anyway will need for other weapons))

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Gauss - changing fire mode will switch precharge on or off. This means if precharge is on you can shoot it instantly without charging. But Gauss with precharge on will explode violently if crited. Such explosion should damage not only the body part it mounted in, but also adjacent. And damage from explosion should be 15 internal structure damage with some crit chances, 10 for bodypart it mounted in and 2.5 for each adjacent. With precharge off Gauss should not explode at all.

[ScarecrowES]

Why can't we just delete the charge and give the weapon its tabletop 90m min range like the PPC? The reason the charge got added was to gimp the weapon compared to the AC/20.

I've hated the way PGI handles the gauss since the charge mechanic was added. It makes no sense. The gauss rifle has a high crit chance and will explode when critted because it features a lot of weak capacitors that will explode when breached. In TT you were walking around with those things charged 100% of the time. The gauss was just ready to fire. But in MWO we walk around UNcharged 100% of the time. So why does it still explode? Shouldn't it only explode if it's critted while we're charging it?

Or if we INSIST on a charge mechanic, why can't the charge simply effect range... or damage? Fire it uncharged and its range is reduced to 270m, or damage is reduced to 5. The longer you charge it, the farther it goes or the more damage it does. Makes a helluva lot more sense than what PGI has done.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

it already is gimped compared to the AC20, it deals 15 instead of 20 damage
oh, and its heavier

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 13 March 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[Volthorne]

ScarecrowES, on 13 March 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

Why can't we just delete the charge and give the weapon its tabletop 90m min range like the PPC?

Because that doesn't make sense. A high-velocity ferrous slug doesn't magically hit something at sub-90m and do no damage. A PPC, on the other hand, could have an unstable electromagnetic field at sub-90m, causing the energy to dissipate before it can properly condense or something. At any rate the minimum range in TT is a to-hit roll, not a damage nullifier. Except for PPCs because space magic.

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Or if we INSIST on a charge mechanic, why can't the charge simply effect range... or damage? Fire it uncharged and its range is reduced to 270m, or damage is reduced to 5. The longer you charge it, the farther it goes or the more damage it does. Makes a helluva lot more sense than what PGI has done.

Is that any different than what we have now? All you'd get is players still charging it for maximum damage/range because there's no reason not to. In fact all you've done is shift the reasoning for the Gauss rifle to require being charged-up from "because you have to" to "otherwise you're not maximizing your damage potential", which is in effect worse.

Edited by Volthorne, 13 March 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[Retrospectus]

why on earth would anyone chain-fire a guass rifle? pretty sure there aren't any mechs capable of taking more than two

[ScarecrowES]

Volthorne, on 13 March 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

Because that doesn't make sense. A high-velocity ferrous slug doesn't magically hit something at sub-90m and do no damage. A PPC, on the other hand, could have an unstable electromagnetic field at sub-90m, causing the energy to dissipate before it can properly condense or something. At any rate the minimum range in TT is a to-hit roll, not a damage nullifier. Except for PPCs because space magic.


Is that any different than what we have now? All you'd get is players still charging it for maximum damage/range because there's no reason not to. In fact all you've done is shift the reasoning for the Gauss rifle to require being charged-up from "because you have to" to "otherwise you're not maximizing your damage potential", which is in effect worse.

The 90m min range would make a lot of sense if you were firing a SABOT. I didn't invent the rules in TT. This is just what they had, and it accomplishes a lot of the reason the charge shot was introduced in the first place.

Now, the charge mechanic is incredibly convoluted. If it MUST exist as a means to distinguish the weapon from autocannons or provide a measure of balance, then I say give the charge mechanic an actual effect on the weapon.

Now, if you use the charge to effect range, you could produce a full-damage snap shot at say 270m. This makes it weaker and heavier than the AC/20 in that range, so the AC/20 still serves a purpose. And to make full use of the range of the gauss, you need to get that charge going. Maybe even make the charge take longer overall to get max range.

If you have it effect damage, then you can get a snap shot at any range, but you're only going to get the damage of an AC/5. To get that full damage, you have to put more oomph into the shot (so a factor of velocity).

Either option gives a reason for the charge to exist. It also gives us a reason to keep the gauss explosive when critted, because it's at least partially charged 100% of the time, AND it gives utility to the weapon in a non-charged state. It's just better gameplay design.

[Volthorne]

ScarecrowES, on 13 March 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

The 90m min range would make a lot of sense if you were firing a SABOT. I didn't invent the rules in TT. This is just what they had, and it accomplishes a lot of the reason the charge shot was introduced in the first place.

You don't fire SABOT rounds from any kind of electromagnetic propulsion gun. Gauss rifles fire ferrous spikes and rail-weapons fire tungsten slugs (read: literally a solid rod of tungsten). Since the gun itself is propelling the projectile as opposed to a casing with propellant, jacketing of any sort is unnecessary. On top of this, a SABOT round would still hit just as hard regardless of before or after the SABOT casing is discarded. Again, the minimum range is a to-hit penalty, meaning aiming at close range is more difficult, which the charge-up simulates well.

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Now, if you use the charge to effect range, you could produce a full-damage snap shot at say 270m. This makes it weaker and heavier than the AC/20 in that range, so the AC/20 still serves a purpose. And to make full use of the range of the gauss, you need to get that charge going. Maybe even make the charge take longer overall to get max range.

Under this implementation, you would in fact obsolete the AC/20 because you take away the biggest downside to the Gauss rifle, which is that it is kludgy to use in sub-200m fights, especially against faster opponents. You basically just turned the Gauss rifle into a 15-ton AC/20 with massively increased range, velocity, etc. Oh, and as an added bonus you can probably take that Endo Steel upgrade too with the freed-up crits.

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If you have it effect damage, then you can get a snap shot at any range, but you're only going to get the damage of an AC/5. To get that full damage, you have to put more oomph into the shot (so a factor of velocity).

With this implementation, there would be no reason to take the Gauss rifle over an AC/5, because it fires three times faster, almost as far, takes up just under half the crits, and weighs in at just over half as much. There is literally nothing but downsides to taking a Gauss rifle over some other ballistic (except maybe MGs, but you'd be giving them a run for their money).

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It's just better gameplay design.

I disagree. The Gauss rifle is in a decent-but-not-good place right now with a particular niche and almost no overlap with pretty much any of the other ballistics. Could it be better? Of course. But it could also very easily be worse, as demonstrated above.

Edited by Volthorne, 13 March 2016 - 03:47 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

My only beef is the frailty of the weapon.

Everything else for it is fine.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Gauss' real problems arent even in the charge mechanic... its incredibly stupid but could be justified by making the rifle NOT EXPLODE when hit not charged, which I would then be perfectly with.... unfortunately PGI decided to not follow logic here.
Related problem, arguably a bigger one, is the fact that its Huge and Heavy - promoting the use of XL engines on them or not fielding them at all, and making gauss crits instantly deadly to the user.

And then there is the fact that not many sufficient tonnage mechs have arm ballistic points to help with the weapon explosion, or the arms are low (Cataphract, im looking at you).

Oh did I mention that there are no gauss quirked mechs that have larger grand total bonus for them than generic ballistic quirks?

In those conditions, pretty much the only people fielding them will be those that think theyre cool, like me. Or clanners, because they lack all of these problems.

Edit: mobile typing sux

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 13 March 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[Volthorne]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 13 March 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

Gauss' real problems arent even in the charge mechanic... its incredibly stupid but could be justified by making the rifle NOT EXPLODE when hit not charged, which I would then be perfectly with.... unfortunately PGI decided to not follow logic here.
Related problem, arguably a bigger one, is the fact that its Huge and Heavy - promoting the use of XL engines on them or not fielding them at all, and making gauss crits instantly deadly to the user.

That's a problem with the user, not the game. If your main gun (HINT: IT'S THE GAUSS RIFLE) sucks up most of your tonnage after engine and armor, then bring the APPROPRIATE weapons as back-up. If you have to start running an XL with a torso-mounted Gauss then you're over-gunning. You picked a sniper-/marksman-style weapon. That's your role. Stop trying to play it as anything else.

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And then there is the fact that not many sufficient tonnage mechs have arm ballistic points to help with the weapon explosion, or the arms are low (Cataphract, im looking at you).

User problem again. Play to the 'Mech's strengths. Also, positioning, super important. Try using the sides of hills rather than the tops.

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Oh did I mention that there are no gauss quirked mechs that have larger grand total bonus for them than generic ballistic quirks?

Because that would make the Gauss OP. Do you not remember the uber-quirked Grid Iron, firing off that Gauss rifle every 2 seconds? It was bullsh*t.

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In those conditions, pretty much the only people fielding them will be those that think theyre cool, like me. Or clanners, because they lack all of these problems.

Or, you know, people who actually use them appropriately. Bigger maps would help, but can't compensate for using a weapon wrong.

[Tarogato]

Xavori, on 13 March 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

It currently has a stupid charge up time that makes it the one weapon you cannot put in a chain fire sequence, makes it harder for new players to figure out how to use (because gauss is a unique snowflake), and is insanely latency unfriendly.

I've had no issues playing gauss at 300 ping. And sure, it's a special snowflake, but so are people who can't be arsed to get used to it. Gauss is fine right now the way it is. It's the most balanced it has even been, both in terms of usefulness on the battlefield, and the charge mechanic itself.

[Amsro]

Been Gaussin' since 2012.



The charge is pretty decent as is. If people want to get rid of it I'll take the buff.

However, there is no way you can take the best part of the charge up away, which is being able to hold your fire if you so desire.

[Clownwarlord]

I have a suggestion for gauss rifle ... get rid of the charge up. Problem solved.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

Volthorne, on 13 March 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

That's a problem with the user, not the game. If your main gun (HINT: IT'S THE GAUSS RIFLE) sucks up most of your tonnage after engine and armor, then bring the APPROPRIATE weapons as back-up. If you have to start running an XL with a torso-mounted Gauss then you're over-gunning. You picked a sniper-/marksman-style weapon. That's your role. Stop trying to play it as anything else.


User problem again. Play to the 'Mech's strengths. Also, positioning, super important. Try using the sides of hills rather than the tops.


Because that would make the Gauss OP. Do you not remember the uber-quirked Grid Iron, firing off that Gauss rifle every 2 seconds? It was bullsh*t.


Or, you know, people who actually use them appropriately. Bigger maps would help, but can't compensate for using a weapon wrong.

Or, you know, I could be using them apropriately and you could be questioning my skill because you either dont agree with my opinion, or you want to insult me for having it.
Hint: that was a drive-by 'analysis' on why people dont use them much, not a life story on how I use them.

There is very little reason to use the Gauss in this game right now - if there was, we would see more of them.

[Ace Selin]

Tarogato, on 13 March 2016 - 04:28 PM, said:

I've had no issues playing gauss at 300 ping. And sure, it's a special snowflake, but so are people who can't be arsed to get used to it. Gauss is fine right now the way it is. It's the most balanced it has even been, both in terms of usefulness on the battlefield, and the charge mechanic itself.

Totally agree, and also play 350-400 ping on 3G wifi

[Tarogato]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 13 March 2016 - 02:15 PM, said:

it already is gimped compared to the AC20, it deals 15 instead of 20 damage
oh, and its heavier

It's also 1,350 m/s faster and 429m longer range. And it has less damage drop off then any other weapon in the game.

[Amsro]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 13 March 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

There is very little reason to use the Gauss in this game right now - if there was, we would see more of them.

15 pinpoint damage traveling @ 2000 m/s with a 700-800 meter optimal range for Zero Heat.

Sold!

[Volthorne]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 13 March 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

Or, you know, I could be using them apropriately and you could be questioning my skill because you either dont agree with my opinion, or you want to insult me for having it.
Hint: that was a drive-by 'analysis' on why people dont use them much, not a life story on how I use them.

There is very little reason to use the Gauss in this game right now - if there was, we would see more of them.

I question your skill because I have no idea what you're trying to infer - that Gauss rifles are somehow bad? If that were the case, I'd see them far less than I do currently, which, by the way, is roughly every 3rd ballistic-toting 'Mech. They are of course, less prevalent on Mediums and non-existent on Lights, but the abundance - nay - near-exclusive use by Heavies/Assaults in some of the matches I have had more than makes up for that.

Granted, how well they are used is another matter. Quite often I see pilots trying to engage in the 3-400 meter range with one or more Gauss rifles, and the results are usually less than stellar. This is of course, as I attributed earlier, a user-error rather than a bad weapon, and Gauss rifles, unlike nearly every other weapon available (bar LRMs) have a skill floor, below which they SEEM bad.

[FLG 01]

Tarogato, on 13 March 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

It's also 1,350 m/s faster and 429m longer range. And it has less damage drop off then any other weapon in the game.

.... and you can fire two of them without insane penalties.

In most cases I found the dual gauss to be much, much superior to the dual AC/20.