31 replies to this topic

[Tigven]

Hello,
I'm a new player with about 40 matches worth of experience.
I'm slowly starting to understand what the game is about and how to have fun here
My C-Bills should be somewhere in the 20M-25M area.

I have tried out most of 16 trial mechs, by FAR the one I most like is the KGC-000B(C). *

Question 1: Is it possible to buy a KGC-000B with C-bills and make it just like the (C) version?
I have tried to do that in "smurfy" with the following result: KGC-000B
Not sure if that is possible in-game though and whether the cost given is accurate!

Question 1.1: If I do that, will I get the XP from the trial (C) version into my own mech? Would be nice, since it is my most played trial mech.

Question 2: Is there any very good reason I should modify this design to something else?

Question 3: Is there any penalty to playing a "not-trial" mech, such as repair costs etc? I imagine playing owned mech is recommended, because it can be upgraded (with skills? modules?)?

* - Reasons of most liking: (my personal experience based)
The times I will score badly in this mech are MUCH rarer than in other trial mechs.
I can deal around 380 damage in an OK match quite often in this mech. My top dmg is 878, which I believe is not bad for a newbie player with rather low aiming skills.
What I like:
- ability to take a ton of damage, and deal damage with an arm missing
- ability to do exceptionally well in many situations: from low to 800m range, especially against slower mechs
- unbelievable damage unleashed with two 2xUAC/5 arms firing augmented with 3x med laser
- works well for firing when partially covered (i.e. left arm sticking out) and step-out-fire-step-back manouvers
- only overheats very rarely

What I dislike:
- very slow, turns slow
- underpowered for 1500m+ sniping maps or marathon maps
- LRM spam is a pain at times

Other mechs/weapons:
I dislike the small mechs, as running and gunning is a bit above my skill level so far.
They deal too little damage and are too squishy for my taste.
I did manage some nice damage sometimes by surviving somehow long enough to repeat a few times flanking or sneaking up from behind.

I dislike the missile-based mechs, the LRM rarely work in my experience. Example: ran out of ammo on Catapult, did 80 damage in entire match with 8 assists.

Gauss-rifle damage is very low at long range, hard to use at other ranges. Example: spammed exposed enemies with gauss rifle at 1000m range, did 120 damage before dying.

Lasers: hard to keep on the enemy at times, dealing less damage and generating more heat.

Edited by Tigven, 15 March 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

1) yes, you can build the Mech identical to any (C) variant for cbills, a Champion is a Mech which comes upgraded, and was community designed, Champions also have a 30% xp earnings boost over regular varients.

1.1) yes, any XP earned on any trial Mech is available for you to spend if you later purchase the Champion or regular variant, same model number except without the (C), of that Mech

2) that completely depends on weather or not you like the design, you have a lot of options, in many cases I dislike the loadout of trial Mechs so if I was to purchase a champion Mech with a few exceptions I would perform major modifications

3) there is absolutely no penalty to using owned Mechs, and you have the advantages of being able to customize them to your playstyle, unlock skills to improve the Mech, change the cammo, redecorate the cockpit and mount modules. the only downside is that most purchased Mechs will not have a good loadout to start, so you can be spending in some cases 10 million upgrading the Mech after purchasing, use http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab to design the Mech before buying anything so you know exactly what it will cost to get your desired load-out before spending anything.

no Mech does well past 1500m, any weapon capable of hitting a target at 1001m would do so with reduced damage, while the Gauss still does some damage at 2km few weapons do any damage at 1500m, in fact I think only the Gauss still does more than 1 point of damage per shell at that range, with the exception of LRMs all current weapons stop doing full damage before 900m, and non missile weapons have scailing damage reduction from optimum range to maximum range, which is usualy double, I think the Gauss is the only weapon with max range being 3x optimum

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 15 March 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[invernomuto]

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Question 1: Is it possible to buy a KGC-000B with C-bills and make it just like the (C) version?
I have tried to do that in "smurfy" with the following result: KGC-000B
Not sure if that is possible in-game though and whether the cost given is accurate!

Yes, it is possibile. The Champion version is a normal mech variant (in this case, the KGC-000B) that has a +30% XP bonus. Apart from this bonus, it's identical to the non champion variant. The cost given is accurate.

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Question 1.1: If I do that, will I get the XP from the trial (C) version into my own mech? Would be nice, since it is my most played trial mech.

Yes, as I said before the two variants are the same, the only difference is the +30% bonus to mech XP for the (C) version.

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Question 2: Is there any very good reason I should modify this design to something else?

One of the best part of this game is to experiment new mech builds. The 4 UAC/5 of the KGC-000B (C) is a build that I like very much but there are some interesting possibilities, see for example this site:

http://metamechs.com...ides/king-crab/

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

Question 3: Is there any penalty to playing a "not-trial" mech, such as repair costs etc? I imagine playing owned mech is recommended, because it can be upgraded (with skills? modules?)?

No penalities, the big advantage is that you can modify your build and add modules and upgrades. You can also "spend" mech XP to buy mech efficiencies (basic ones). Once you achieved all the basic mech efficiencies for three variants of the King Crab you can unlock elite efficiencies that give very interesting bonuses.

Edited by invernomuto, 15 March 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[Digital_Angel]

1) Yes, you can buy a 000B and set it up exactly like the champion build.

1.1) I believe you do, but not 100%

2) The design is good, but you find tweaks to it that suite your play style better. I've been playing KGCs since long before it had a champion build. The 3 builds I run most often on my KGC-000B are:
a ) 4xAC5 (6-7 tons of ammo), 3xML
b ) 2xAC20 (6 tons ammo), 3xML, 1xLRM5 (1 ton ammo, just for while closing distance)
c ) 2xGuass (5-6 tons ammo), 3xMPL

All versions running Std 320-330 engines, maxed out weapon range and cool down modules for the appropriate main weapon, seismic, advanced zoom on the guass and AC5 builds. Fill up any remaining room on the build with DHS, all using Endo and no Ferro.


3) no penalty, only bonuses (training up skills, being able to change configurations, etc)

Edited by LadyDanams, 15 March 2016 - 01:28 PM.

[Exilyth]

Welcome to WM:O!

Answer 1: Any (C) variant can be build from the "normal" variant, e.g. you can use a KGC-000B to build a KGC-000B(C).

From the smurfy link you've given, I can see the following major changes:

• Engine upgraded from STD300 to STD310 and two heatsinks placed in the engine
  
• Large Laser replaced with 3 Medium Lasers
  
• Structure changed from standard to Endo Steel
  
• Armor changed from ferro fibrous to standard
  
• Each AC20 replaced with 2 UAC5
  
• LRM15, LRM ammo, UAC ammo, case removed
  
• 2 tons of UAC5 ammo placed in each leg
  
• The armor in the center, left and right torso and legs has been increased

Answer 1.1: The xp from a trial variant carries over to the normal variant of that mech, e.g. driving a trial KGC-000B(C) will accumulate xp for a KGC-000B.


Answer 2: Try it out the way you intend to build it, you'll either love or hate it. Experiment. Adapt. Find out what works for you and what is the most fun for you. If you want more range, you could use AC2s exchange the medium lasers for an ER Large Laser or try 2 UAC5 in one arm, an AC10 in the other, and a LRM5 to pester enemies while you close the distance. Or put gauss rifles in the arms and snipe back with 30 points of pin point damage.

Me, personally, I currently run 3x ERLL, 3x SRM6 in my KGC-000B. Not what you would expect in a ballistc focused mech and a bit hot, but works for me.

You can find out how other people build their king crabs by searching around in a bit in http://mwomercs.com/...lt-mech-builds/

Answer 3: You have to buy it with C-Bills and it then takes up one mech bay (until you sell it or get more mech bays). Also, most stock loadouts tend to be a bit weak. That's all the downsides there are. In exchange, you can unlock skills and customize loadout and camo.

Talking about skills, there are skills to increase the turn rate ("anchor turn" and "twist speed"). That combined with going from a 300 to a 310 engine should make turning your king crab feel a bit less like molasses. Then again, it's a king crab

Hope this helps.

Edited by Exilyth, 15 March 2016 - 01:33 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

KGC is a good platform.

On top of the champion set up there are a lot of different things you can also do with the KGC.
All sorts of different autocannon rigs. SRM brawlers, LRM boats. The only thing you cannot really do with it is make a pure laser puke build, but cannons and missiles are way cooler than lasers so who cares?

Also, if you have the cash or a spare one sitting around, I would recommend experimenting with using an XL engine. They take to them fairly well as the mech is more center torso than anything else.

[Attendant]

... and basically, buying a champion version is like having built-in premium time of sorts every time you use it, because that c-bill bonus never goes away?

[Top Leliel]

1) buy a KGC-000B
2) replace the arm cannons with dual Ultra Autocannon 5s
3) you now have the same mech as the trial champion mech, without spending real money

[Void Angel]

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

* - Reasons of most liking: (my personal experience based)
The times I will score badly in this mech are MUCH rarer than in other trial mechs.
I can deal around 380 damage in an OK match quite often in this mech. My top dmg is 878, which I believe is not bad for a newbie player with rather low aiming skills.
What I like:
- ability to take a ton of damage, and deal damage with an arm missing
- ability to do exceptionally well in many situations: from low to 800m range, especially against slower mechs
- unbelievable damage unleashed with two 2xUAC/5 arms firing augmented with 3x med laser
- works well for firing when partially covered (i.e. left arm sticking out) and step-out-fire-step-back manouvers
- only overheats very rarely

What I dislike:
- very slow, turns slow
- underpowered for 1500m+ sniping maps or marathon maps
- LRM spam is a pain at times

This particular trial 'mech is virtually identical to one of my builds for the chassis - it is a devastating mid-range combatant, and I am entirely unsurprised that you're having good results from it. (I Actually Use An XL for my primary King Crab, but you'll want to get more used to the game before you try it.) The King Crab is an amazingly powerful platform in a number of builds, and I don't think you'll go wrong with buying it - though you might want to Try A Smaller Engine than the champion to fit more ammo (and vaccinate your dang 'mech.) =]

Many of the things you dislike about the 'mech are a function of you not having the piloting skills yet. Assault 'mechs in particular (along with Lights) rely heavily on their piloting skill trees to achieve their full potential. That's true of all weight classes, to a certain degree, but a fully mastered Assault drives like a completely different 'mech - and all of your dislikes will be ameliorated to some extent by the increased maneuverability provided by those skill trees. The long-range maps, by which I assume you mean Alpine and Polar Highlands, can be run by slow 'mechs - even brawler Assaults - if they know the maps, pick good routes to get places, and keep moving. They may be a little late to the fight, but they'll get there before it's over.

As an aside, Polar Highlands is one of my favorite maps, but it doesn't really favor long range - it favors maneuvering. Viridian Bog is much the same way - It's quite a nice change from the older map types.

I would recommend against buying a champion (C) variant, however - the transitory gain in experience doesn't seem to be worthwhile to me, since I still have to skill up the other chassis the old fashioned way. Your mileage may vary - however, even if I was to spend real money to get a non-hero 'mech (other than pre-ordering,) I would just buy one or more of the Cicada champions and sell it back for C-bills (this is a much better return for c-bills per MC than buying the actual C-bill packages; never buy those.)

Attendant, on 15 March 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

... and basically, buying a champion version is like having built-in premium time of sorts every time you use it, because that c-bill bonus never goes away?

That's an experience bonus, not a C-bill boost - otherwise the Champions would be more worth the expense.

Edited by Void Angel, 15 March 2016 - 11:04 PM.

[Kmieciu]

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

- LRM spam is a pain at times

Unlock Radar Deprivation with GXP and buy it ASAP. It will make dodging LRMs much easier.

Edited by Kmieciu, 16 March 2016 - 12:15 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

+1 to buying Radar Dep asap. Even if you arent fighting LRM boats, dropping off an enemy radar is very very valuable.

Attendant, on 15 March 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

... and basically, buying a champion version is like having built-in premium time of sorts every time you use it, because that c-bill bonus never goes away?

Champion mechs give a 30% boost to XP.
Hero (and many other special edition mechs) give a 30% boost to c-bills.
Premium time is 50% extra c-bills AND xp.

[SnagaDance]

King Crabs are some of my favorite Assaults. I also run a 4 UAC/5 variant, and a dual AC/20 one and for the 000 version I use 6 AC/2's. Not the most optimal build but ridiculously funny when it works.

I'm actually thinking if buying another King Crab just for a Dual Gauss version without the need to switch load-outs.

[Koniving]

Attendant, on 15 March 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

... and basically, buying a champion version is like having built-in premium time of sorts every time you use it, because that c-bill bonus never goes away?

Boogie138, on 16 March 2016 - 12:11 AM, said:

Champion mechs give a 30% boost to XP.
Hero (and many other special edition mechs) give a 30% boost to c-bills.
Premium time is 50% extra c-bills AND xp.

This supposedly changed (or at least was talked about changing) in favor of a cbill bonus. Though I didn't like the wording: "Some" champions got a 30% bonus to cbills. I'm logging in to look at my two or three gifted (yay events!) champions to find out.

Well the ones I have are exclusively XP bonuses. Wonder if the talk of change was just that, talk?

Attendant, on 15 March 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

... and basically, buying a champion version is like having built-in premium time of sorts every time you use it, because that c-bill bonus never goes away?

You still get the like for bringing that forward to be cleared up.

[Koniving]

Welcome to MWO.

Tigven, on 15 March 2016 - 12:37 PM, said:

* - Reasons of most liking: (my personal experience based)
The times I will score badly in this mech are MUCH rarer than in other trial mechs.
I can deal around 380 damage in an OK match quite often in this mech. My top dmg is 878, which I believe is not bad for a newbie player with rather low aiming skills.
What I like:
- ability to take a ton of damage, and deal damage with an arm missing
- ability to do exceptionally well in many situations: from low to 800m range, especially against slower mechs
- unbelievable damage unleashed with two 2xUAC/5 arms firing augmented with 3x med laser
- works well for firing when partially covered (i.e. left arm sticking out) and step-out-fire-step-back manouvers
- only overheats very rarely

What I dislike:
- very slow, turns slow
- underpowered for 1500m+ sniping maps or marathon maps
- LRM spam is a pain at times

Other mechs/weapons:
I dislike the small mechs, as running and gunning is a bit above my skill level so far.
They deal too little damage and are too squishy for my taste.
I did manage some nice damage sometimes by surviving somehow long enough to repeat a few times flanking or sneaking up from behind.

I dislike the missile-based mechs, the LRM rarely work in my experience. Example: ran out of ammo on Catapult, did 80 damage in entire match with 8 assists.

Gauss-rifle damage is very low at long range, hard to use at other ranges. Example: spammed exposed enemies with gauss rifle at 1000m range, did 120 damage before dying.

Lasers: hard to keep on the enemy at times, dealing less damage and generating more heat.

Everything here is intended to be educational and to potentially change some of the views presented.

So there are some things to note:
1) The KGC-000B champion design is awful because it is prone to nasty ammunition explosions.
2) This very minor modification to the basic champion design makes it less prone to potential ammo explosions. It also switches the engine for one that is slightly faster (since you'd have to buy a new engine anyway to match the champion build with a normal KGC-000B).

Addressing dislikes of the King Crab:
To increase your turning speed (if you do not have Throttle Decay enabled), move at one-quarter (1/4th) speed and turn. You will turn much faster than a full speed turn.

No mech can deliver damage at 1,500 meters unless using Gauss Rifles (which would do 6.52 damage at 1,500 meters out of 15 per shot) and even the second longest range weapon, the LBX 10 shotgun, each pellet delivers 0.115 damage at 1,500 meters for a total of 1.15 damage scattered for 10 pellets. Then the third longest range weapon, the AC/2, would typically do 0 damage at that range as it's 60 meters past the '0 damage' point. If you're firing UAC/5s at this range, don't. Instead focus on closing in.
Without quirks, UAC/5s deliver 0 damage at 1,200 meters. They do 100% damage at 600 meters and in between the damage is reduced. ML without quirks does 100% damage at 270 meters and is reduced to 0 at 540 meters.

LRM spam can be helped by removing 1 ton of UAC/5 ammunition and adding in an AMS along with half a ton of AMS ammo. You may even consider adding another ton on top of this. That will help with LRM spam. You can also "Raise the torso and arms" to face LRMs, and then twist 75 degrees in either direction to 'spread' the damage. Make sure your claws are closed for maximum benefit!

------
Addressing "small and weak lights."
Their weapons do the same damage as heavier mechs as they are identical weapons. They are more fragile in exchange for their speed and size. Yes, they do require a higher navigational skill and a bit of cunning.
But in no way are they 'weaker'.

Golf was an Atlas. The Atlas had the support of 4 mechs (2 mediums, a light and another assault). The retreat was at first; the person I was talking to was an LRM Atlas with no direct fire weaponry (...seriously dude?) anyway I intended to make him useful by telling him I'm providing him with targets so that his LRMs can help.
I kept going in and out between them at 97 kph with 1 MPL, 2 SL and 4 machine guns using a standard engine in a 35 ton Firestarter. As you can see I put up quite a fight, especially since I didn't have jumpjets. I had zero kills prior to engaging in that (kinda) 2 on 5 fight. One of which was a Stormcrow (often known as an anti-everything medium).

Same design.

These were before quirks. After quirks I'm not as proud despite damages near the thousand and kills higher than 6 on occasion, as I feel that quirks are rediculous and make some of these things overpowered.

Other weapon systems:
-LRMs are situational. They can be dodged at longer ranges and are allowed 8 course corrections (12 if using Artemis). The lock MUST be maintained during their ENTIRE flight time. This may be the cause of your situation.
-Consider this video, in which after each match I have excesses of 500 damage and in the second match several kills using almost exclusively LRMs. (Warning, this one is long (26 minutes; two matches + discussion) but it teaches, unlike most videos which just shows). First match is losing, but I'm the last one standing on my team and I go out fighting while prolonging my life as long as possible. Second match is a victory and I go through most of it almost unblemished showing how to tactically 'use' brawlers and position yourself.
-Or this video using an LRM-only Catapult to rack in 500+ damage in less than 2 minutes of combat (takes a little bit to get to that point, however; between music and the anticipation, there's a reason there's over 4,000 views despite how unpopular my channel is).
-Or this video of an LRMs-only Stalker pair laying waste to everything. (2,800+ views, yay! My average per video is about 400 to 800). (Note: This video is not showing good LRM use; we're screwing around with joke builds and having our lols.)

Gauss Rifle. Covered this and its actual damage up higher at 1,500 meters. However, at 1,000 meters it is about 11 damage per shot and twin Gauss Rifles would do 22 damage. 4 UAC/5s up close is 20 damage per shot. Note the difference in reload times (5 seconds + charge up Gauss, 1.66 seconds UAC/5 standard fire, half that for 'click spam'.)
Gauss Rifle examples: Versus many enemies in hot environment.
4 Gauss Rifles Versus a UAC/5 boat (ending) at point blank.
Suddenly Shadowhawk (Twin Gauss Jagermech)

Sadly the Gauss Rifle is best at longer ranges as it can do things that other weapons cannot. But hitting in the same spot over and over is nearly impossible.

Lasers; wholly agreed. Be mindful of the range stated on the weapon display, do not use for ranges beyond what is stated for best effect.
-Note: Pulse lasers have reduced range but require significantly less 'hold time' and shoot faster for identical heat and more damage.

Edited by Koniving, 16 March 2016 - 04:19 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Koniving, on 16 March 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

Addressing "small and weak lights."
Their weapons do the same damage as heavier mechs as they are identical weapons. They are more fragile in exchange for their speed and size. Yes, they do require a higher navigational skill and a bit of cunning.
But in no way are they 'weaker'.

agreed, most Lights are more fragile and less heavily armed than most heavies or assaults, but assuming comparable piloting skill a Light will usualy beat a King Crab 1v1, yes the KCG has far more potential firepower and armor but the Light is far faster and more agile.
The KCG may well be able to cripple or kill the light with 1 Alpha strike but good luck landing it on a 130-165kph moving target at close range.

[Fobhopper]

I have 4 KGC's, all mastered, and each customized for different play styles.
I have 2 KGC-000(L).
Dual ac20} http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a53d870ad802c4a
Quad uac5} http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0d6d2aeb0601df4
You can drop the uac5's for standard ac5's which will free up 4 tons that you could spend on more ammo. Which is what I would recommend, and then just get the ac5 CD module, it will make it almost as good as the uac5 build without the chance of jamming.

KGC-000B - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...45cefbdd184c651
Dont expect to win a fight with a light, but its very entertaining making the enemy fight in the rain on maps like canyon and highland.

KGC-0000 - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c09fad90b3c597
Dual Gauss, 2LL. you could lose some armor to put on more gauss ammo. or if you have issues with lights, drop the LL for MPL or TAG+ SSRM's.

I have over a thousand matches in this game with just the KGC chassis, and this is how I like to run my KGC's. I will admit that the dual ac20 is my preferred build, I also like running an LRM KGC just because people lose their goddamn minds over that build, and then shut the hell up when that stats/score show up and I have over 1k damage and 3KMDD's.

If you want more help or advice piloting fat mechs, check out the link in my signature. That will go into more detail.

[Tigven]

Very big "THANK YOU" to all who replied!
Note: Not quoting does not mean not reading I have read all replies.

Regarding weapon range and damage falloff, I get the idea. I just meant that many of the matches I have played, a Gauss Rifle and LR Laser seemed underpowered. I've recently tried the LR Pulse Laser, seems better, but still highly situational.

What I did:
I went ahead and bought a B version and converted it into one that is identical to the "(C)" version.
I had enough mech XP to max out the basic skills right away, which surprised me. I know not to use GXP on that.
I do appreciate the added bonuses from the basic skills
I have also bought the cheaper consumable Cool Shot and auto-refilled and hotkeyed it. Seems nice.

invernomuto, on 15 March 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

One of the best part of this game is to experiment new mech builds. The 4 UAC/5 of the KGC-000B (C) is a build that I like very much but there are some interesting possibilities, see for example this site:

http://metamechs.com...ides/king-crab/

Thank you, very nice resource (took a look at it, plan to read more).
At the moment, I am very interested in a mostly-short-range build (of KGC-000B), since I most of my "rampage fun" matches involve me face-tanking another slow mech and destroying it with a spam of UAC/5, which is supposedly a 600m+ weapon, doesn't seem to fit <50m battles best (it works splendid, but maybe something else works even better).
I'm thinking maybe mostly 10-X AC or any other "shotgun" and/or short range missiles (if it fits this mech???) and 3x Long range pulse laser to have something for medium distance?

Kmieciu, on 15 March 2016 - 11:35 PM, said:

Unlock Radar Deprivation with GXP and buy it ASAP. It will make dodging LRMs much easier.

I'm only sitting at 5.5k GXP (most from achievements), getting to 15k seems impossible. I'm quite sure I won't play that much to reach that point. I'm also not very eager to spend money on MC conversion from XP yet.

Is it a good idea to get some pilot skill and weapon module for about 5k + 0.5k instead? AFAIK I'm limited to one each until completing the basic+elite+master skill level.

Btw. 100 GXP (x2 if 1st this day) is a exceedingly good result for me, which happens for me 1 in 10+ matches, the other ones granting something like 12 GXP.

Koniving, on 16 March 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

1) The KGC-000B champion design is awful because it is prone to nasty ammunition explosions.
2) This very minor modification to the basic champion design makes it less prone to potential ammo explosions. It also switches the engine for one that is slightly faster (since you'd have to buy a new engine anyway to match the champion build with a normal KGC-000B).

I was in need of suggestions like those. I guess I'll move ammo from Right Torso to Center? I'll leave the engine since I've already bought 310 if that's OK?

Koniving, on 16 March 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

LRM spam can be helped by removing 1 ton of UAC/5 ammunition and adding in an AMS along with half a ton of AMS ammo. You may even consider adding another ton on top of this. That will help with LRM spam. You can also "Raise the torso and arms" to face LRMs, and then twist 75 degrees in either direction to 'spread' the damage. Make sure your claws are closed for maximum benefit!

I was in fact considering addins AMS and some ammo. How much AMS ammo would that 1.5 tons last for?
The problem is, there seems to be no space and no tonnage left for that...

Koniving, on 16 March 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

------
Addressing "small and weak lights."
Their weapons do the same damage as heavier mechs as they are identical weapons. They are more fragile in exchange for their speed and size. Yes, they do require a higher navigational skill and a bit of cunning.
But in no way are they 'weaker'.
[...hard to understand (for me) description of some battle...]

I did not mean they are weaker. I just found the trial mechs rather useless in my hands.

I can flank the big mechs, but most of the time I get 5 other enemies killing me in 1 second.

Sometimes I'm not spotted while flanking the enemy, then I do nearly no damage with my tiny "2 damage dealt, +99% heat" lasers I did [help to] kill a few big mechs on ONE occasion, but their pilots had exceptional tunnel vision.

Koniving, on 16 March 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

Other weapon systems:
-LRMs are situational. They can be dodged at longer ranges and are allowed 8 course corrections (12 if using Artemis). The lock MUST be maintained during their ENTIRE flight time. This may be the cause of your situation.

I have read that is it best to use LRMs below 800m range if the target is likely to move out of range (no damage then). I have little idea how the locking mechanisms works though.

I have a feeling I did something very wrong
When I get a lock, I shoot, often with the center crosshair going red briefly, after some time (it means I did some damage?).
Do you mean I need to have the lock during the entire time LRMs are flying to the target? What happens otherwise then, the LRMs just do spread damage in the area OR ...?
Do I need to point all the time inside the lock-confirmed target selection box or just never allow it to disappear?
Is that even possible on non-exposed targets? I hear there are some devices to help with locks (NARC?), but haven't noticed them being used in quick-play.

Koniving, on 16 March 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

-Consider this video, [...]
-Or this video using an LRM-only Catapult [...]
-Or this video of an LRMs-only Stalker pair [...]
[...]
-Note: Pulse lasers have reduced range but require significantly less 'hold time' and shoot faster for identical heat and more damage.

Thank you for the videos. I'll watch them soon.
I like pulse lasers a lot more for some reason (cool sound ;P ), especially the long range ones.

Rogue Jedi, on 16 March 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

agreed, most Lights are more fragile and less heavily armed than most heavies or assaults, but assuming comparable piloting skill a Light will usualy beat a King Crab 1v1, yes the KCG has far more potential firepower and armor but the Light is far faster and more agile.
The KCG may well be able to cripple or kill the light with 1 Alpha strike but good luck landing it on a 130-165kph moving target at close range.

I agree. However, sometimes it is possible to surprise a light mech(with a bad pilot ) moving in enclosed space or not expecting damage or running from other mech.

Edited by Tigven, 16 March 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[Koniving]

Tigven, on 16 March 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

I was in need of suggestions like those. I guess I'll move ammo from Right Torso to Center? I'll leave the engine since I've already bought 310 if that's OK?

310's fine. Just leaves you open to place that tonnage into something else (as I believe it took up a whole ton to change from 310 to 315.)

Note the 'crit slots' in each location. In the right torso there are 12 crit slots. In the base champion design, 3 are filled with weapons, 3 are filled with ammunition and finally 6 are filled with heatsinks. Should the right torso (which is GINORMOUS) get pierced, crit rolls begin. There's a 50% chance of hitting heatsinks (which have 10 health each and there's two of them), 25% chance of hitting any of the ammo (which has 10 health each and a 20% chance of going boom), and 25% chance of hitting any medium laser, again 10 health each. And should you lose the right torso, there goes a huge chunk of your ammo

The center torso on the other hand has 12 slots minimum (and depending on how many heatsinks you install into the engine, as many as 30 slots) to buffer ammo. Furthermore, ammunition in the center torso is expended first. Then your legs. And finally the head (which if there's ever enough damage for the ammo to explode in your head, you've already died before it happened.) If you lose either side torso, you still have your ammo. True, there is less protection on your medium lasers but ammo to protect lasers is like using gasoline to protect a powder keg you're sitting on while you smoke a cigar.


Boom. O.o;

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I was in fact considering addins AMS and some ammo. How much AMS ammo would that 1.5 tons last for?
The problem is, there seems to be no space and no tonnage left for that...

The exact rate AMS fires isn't known to me, but half a ton holds 1,000 rounds... It burns through them quick, but 1 second of fire does 1.5 damage. Each missile has 1 health. That means a single AMS eats through 3 missiles every 2 seconds. Standing around allies with more can do wonders; I've once seen a plethora of AMS tear through a 90 missile spree without a single missile getting through -- and I should know, I was the one with the ROFLpult (LRM 90 Catapult A1). Back in 2013, 1,000 rounds was plenty. Now a ton comes with 2,000 rounds but missiles are faster and then there's "AMS Overload" modules which make 1 AMS stop missiles as fast as two AMS (and 2 as fast as 4). As you can imagine it burns through ammo quick. Also since then they react to Streaks and SRMs too, not just LRMs. You can turn AMS off and on with the ~ key.

1.5 tons should more than last you through an entire match, provided we're not looking at an LRM-apocalypse.

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I did not mean they are weaker. I just found the trial mechs rather useless in my hands.

I can flank the big mechs, but most of the time I get 5 other enemies killing me in 1 second.

Sometimes I'm not spotted while flanking the enemy, then I do nearly no damage with my tiny "2 damage dealt, +99% heat" lasers I did [help to] kill a few big mechs on ONE occasion, but their pilots had exceptional tunnel vision.

I did gather that much. However it's a very common belief that light mechs aren't worth anything and I wanted to make sure that anyone reading the thread wouldn't get that impression. Back in beta, there was a point in which players would kill their own teammates for using a light mech. Then there was bullying in terms of friendlies 'bulldozing' through teammates and knocking them all over because they brought a 'worthless metal baby'. While most people are pretty decent, there's always potential for budding apples to sour.

A tip for lasers though now that you mention it. Pick a spot on the enemy, a very specific spot. Say the arm pit or its belly or even its pelvis. Shoot there and keep the beam there until it's done. That's how to do the most damage with laser weaponry. Too many new people seem to think it's a water cannon and "so long as the enemy is getting wet", they think they are doing damage. The beam is pretty meaningless actually. You point at the enemy and it 'counts'. If you held it somewhere for 0.1 to 0.2 seconds depending on the type of laser you get a reward of damage. Fail, and you have done nothing.

What's that, streaking it across the enemy? Yep... that laser user just did a lot of 'nothing'. Find a spot, focus it. And remember: Legs are huge and easy to focus.

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I have read that is it best to use LRMs below 800m range if the target is likely to move out of range (no damage then). I have little idea how the locking mechanisms works though.

I have a feeling I did something very wrong
When I get a lock, I shoot, often with the center crosshair going red briefly, after some time (it means I did some damage?).
Do you mean I need to have the lock during the entire time LRMs are flying to the target? What happens otherwise then, the LRMs just do spread damage in the area OR ...?
Do I need to point all the time inside the lock-confirmed target selection box or just never allow it to disappear?
Is that even possible on non-exposed targets? I hear there are some devices to help with locks (NARC?), but haven't noticed them being used in quick-play.

Step 1: Target enemy.
Step 2: Hold target until crosshair spins and turns red AND you hear a definitive 'sound'. Pretty unique in the game.
Step 3: Optional: Wait 2 seconds before firing, if the target is still there chances are allies are going to keep it sighted (You do not have to physically see the enemy, but "Someone" does).
Step 4: Fire, remembering that your crosshair cannot change. Missiles are stupid in MWO. They get their guidance from you, not an on-board computer.

In other words, you must keep it pointed at the enemy and the circular double crosshair must remain twisted and red. You can lose it but get it back right away or your missiles will go dumb.
Notes:
1) If you lose lock, the missiles will go to the last known location of the confirmed lock.
2) If you fire without a lock, the missiles will go to your crosshair. Which crosshair depends on where the launcher is. If it is on a torso, it will go to the + crosshair at the time you fired. If it is on your arms, it will go to the "o" crosshair at the time you fired.

You can actually lead missiles with this trick against targets you can't lock on.

3) If you lose the lock, you have time to get it back so long as the missiles are in the air. Standard LRMs have 8 course corrections that they perform. If you can get the lock back during ANY of these course corrections, they will go after the target.
4) If you lock AFTER you fire and did not have a lock before... your missiles will ignore you. Remember this. It's both bad and very useful.
5) Should your missiles be aided by a friendly TAG, you will have 12 course corrections. You will only have these so long as the enemy is the target of a TAG.
6) Missiles lock by either + or O and as such in mechs with lower arm actuators, you can fire your missiles up to 85 degrees left or right without turning to face that direction. Food for thought when protecting a weak side.
7) If an enemy ECM user is within 90 meters of you, the missiles will instantly become stupid. This is because you cannot communicate with the missiles.

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Thank you for the videos. I'll watch them soon.
I like pulse lasers a lot more for some reason (cool sound ;P ), especially the long range ones.

You're welcome.

[Void Angel]

Tigven, on 16 March 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Thank you for the videos. I'll watch them soon.
I like pulse lasers a lot more for some reason (cool sound ;P ), especially the long range ones.

Trust that impulse.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Tigven, on 16 March 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Is it a good idea to get some pilot skill and weapon module for about 5k + 0.5k instead? AFAIK I'm limited to one each until completing the basic+elite+master skill level.

Btw. 100 GXP (x2 if 1st this day) is a exceedingly good result for me, which happens for me 1 in 10+ matches, the other ones granting something like 12 GXP.

Save up, radar dep is is worth it.

For my style and philosophy (others may vary) I never leave home without radar deprivation. Even if I have a mech with ECM I am still going to use it.

There is not a single mech or weapon mod I would trade mine for.

If am fighting long range, I do not want tto help the enemy to be able to anticipate which direction I may peek out to shoot, or retreat etc etc.

If I have a close range design, I want to be able to approach to be as undetectable as possible.

etc etc