365 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

Sahrang, on 18 March 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

[REDACTED]

The maps have so much cover that it totally invalidates LRMs played in the way you described.

Sadly there is no way to not reward even the losers without a massive loss of interest.

Edited by Scout Derek, 18 March 2016 - 06:59 AM.
Removal of unconstructive quote

[Bishop Steiner]

Sahrang, on 18 March 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

[REDACTED]

oh look, rhetoric from someone that thinks shooting pixels on a video game is a matter of courage and honor.

Blah blah blah.

This ain't IRL, this ain't honor duels, it's a war game. Get over yourself. There's neither courage or cowardice when all you are risking is electrons and epeen.

Another luminary to add to my ignore list.....

Sounds to me like somebody has gotten the bad touch by LURMs a little too often. Can you show us on the paper doll where the bad LURMs touched you?

(also note that most people who rage about LRMs are people who think the best way to play the game is to stand in the open, nowhere near cover and "trade" blows.)

Personally I think it says more about the person ragin about them being bad, since LRMs are so easy to defeat, than the person launching them.

Edited by Scout Derek, 18 March 2016 - 07:00 AM.
Removal of unconstructive quote

[Bishop Steiner]

Snuggles Time, on 18 March 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

As mentioned in the thread before, but it needs to be said again.

If you make LRMS viable for tier 1/2/ tiers 4/5 are going to be a living hell.

adapt or die.

[Xavori]

Sahrang, on 18 March 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

[REDACTED]

Let's have fun with this shall we (I'm on a Daredevil break for a few minutes...you'll do for killing them )

First, before you say "low skill" go try to use them on a map other than Polar Highlands, and even that map there is a 50/50 chance you're going to be completely limited by teammates. I'll bet you dump a lot of your missiles into hills, mountains, trees, and buildings. Pretty much everywhere but into enemies. Your low skill with this "low skill" weapon will be painfully obvious to your teammates who will see your epic fail and join in the chorus of people who truly believe LRM's totally suck.

Second, anyone who talks about cowardice in a video game should seriously consider professional help. There is only one thing that should matter in gaming: having fun. If you're that hung up on honor and bravery or whatever the hell you think you have going on, there are plenty of well qualified doctors who can help you put your life back in perspective.

Third, anyone who talks about cowardice because of tactics in a real fight is an idiot and/or has never actually been in a fight with real consequences. I'm not talking about getting a bloody nose because you mouthed off in a dive bar after the wanna be brawler accused you of checking out his girlfriend. I'm talking real fights with real consequences. In those fights, you fight to win, not to look pretty or uphold some bs standard of honor that was likely written by some REMF from ancient history.

In other words, high speed, grow the frak up.

Edited by Scout Derek, 18 March 2016 - 07:00 AM.
Removal of unconstructive quote

[Rogue Jedi]

sorry, I did not read through all 11 pages so someone may already have covered this.

the main problem with LRMs is that against inexperianced players they are realy effective, by the time someone has been playing for 1-2 months they have figured out how to mitigate LRMs, but to make it so that LRMs are viable in top level play, maybe using something along the lines of Bishops suggestions in the OP you would also be buffing them to the point that they would be ridiculously overpowered against a new player who does not know any of the mitigation tactics, that has been the major problem any time PGI improve LRMs.

last time I think they were something like 25m/s faster than they are now, that combined with the fact that most of the playerbase was trying them caused enough complaining that within, if I remember correctly, 3 days PGI agreed to drop there speed to where it is now.
3 days is not long enough to fairly evaluate anything, absolute minimum time to evaluate the effectiveness of something like that is 2 weeks, a month would be better, the speed was reduced within a week, that is not enough time for everyone to test the new speed, let alone for people to realize they need to add AMS to there builds or adjust there play styles to negate the superior LRMs

I would love to see LRM speed increased, perhaps even doubled, and most of the suggestions in Bishops OP are in my opinion good, the problem is there would be such an outcry when LRMs become viable in high level play, especially from the players who do not know how to deal with LRMs now that I doubt PGI would be willing to risk making LRMs OK

[Thunderbird Anthares]

all you gotta do against LRMs is get behind cover
which is... identical to what you have to do compared to direct fire weapons - except direct fire weapons hit immediately and have no HUD warning

and they hit harder

Edited by Thunderbird Anthares, 18 March 2016 - 05:23 AM.

[Xavori]

Rogue Jedi, on 18 March 2016 - 05:18 AM, said:

the main problem with LRMs is that against inexperianced players they are realy effective, by the time someone has been playing for 1-2 months they have figured out how to mitigate LRMs, but to make it so that LRMs are viable in top level play, maybe using something along the lines of Bishops suggestions in the OP you would also be buffing them to the point that they would be ridiculously overpowered against a new player who does not know any of the mitigation tactics, that has been the major problem any time PGI improve LRMs.

It would take all of 30 seconds to tell new players to put AMS on their mech and stay in formation next to all their teammates who also have AMS. This has the added side effect of reducing the number of yolo newbies which in turn will keep them alive longer in the matches and likely lead to their having more fun.

In fact, AMS in formation becomes a normal thing would actually be the only thing that would make me quit playing LRM mechs because unlike all the "ZOMG LRM's SUXXORZ" peeps on the board, I find that they work really, really well if you play smart rather than just hide behind a hill hoping the other team doesn't have any Arctic Cheetahs

[Bishop Steiner]

Xavori, on 18 March 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

Let's have fun with this shall we (I'm on a Daredevil break for a few minutes...you'll do for killing them )

First, before you say "low skill" go try to use them on a map other than Polar Highlands, and even that map there is a 50/50 chance you're going to be completely limited by teammates. I'll bet you dump a lot of your missiles into hills, mountains, trees, and buildings. Pretty much everywhere but into enemies. Your low skill with this "low skill" weapon will be painfully obvious to your teammates who will see your epic fail and join in the chorus of people who truly believe LRM's totally suck.

Second, anyone who talks about cowardice in a video game should seriously consider professional help. There is only one thing that should matter in gaming: having fun. If you're that hung up on honor and bravery or whatever the hell you think you have going on, there are plenty of well qualified doctors who can help you put your life back in perspective.

Third, anyone who talks about cowardice because of tactics in a real fight is an idiot and/or has never actually been in a fight with real consequences. I'm not talking about getting a bloody nose because you mouthed off in a dive bar after the wanna be brawler accused you of checking out his girlfriend. I'm talking real fights with real consequences. In those fights, you fight to win, not to look pretty or uphold some bs standard of honor that was likely written by some REMF from ancient history.

In other words, high speed, grow the frak up.

No skill weapon coincidentally has the lowest accuracy of any, globally. Go figure, right?

Oh wait, the only "real" skill is twitchy click a pixel, I keep forgetting.

Mastering a weapon that can take up to 8 seconds to get a lock and arrive on target (and have a very good chance of having that lock broken before getting there), requires constant repositioning, is still most effective under 400 meters, but of course you can't let them closer than 180 meters... that has more counters than anything in the game and that to be used EFFECTIVELY, requires way more exposure and face time than any "skill" weapon.... yup, no skill there.

Methinks someone has a nice big "5" the doesn't want to show off..... how about you?

[Arctourus]

LRMs are an odd beast. I remember when I first started playing just after open beta started that someone did a big numbers crunch comparison and deemed the LRM 15 to be the most bang for your buck. After a little experience, I realized that he was wrong. I rarely use anything other than LRM 5 or LRM 10 launchers, and for a few reasons.

First, rate of fire. The smaller launchers just fling them out faster.

Second, tonnage. Two LRM 5 launchers weigh less than a single 10, so if you can fit multiple launchers into your mech, a pair of 5s will give you the same single shot damage as a 10, with faster cooldown. Plus, you save a ton for ammo or heatsinks.

Finally, and most importantly, spread. If you make a practice drop and watch closely, even when firing at some heavy mechs you'll notice that the lrms on the edge of your giant blob of missiles will simply miss the target. The larger the missile alpha, the more missiles will miss, simple as that. Best case scenario, you shoot at something really large, like a king crab, and they all hit but spread damage all over. LRM 5/10 launchers just miss less, waste less ammo and contain the damage to a tighter area, even without Artemis.

If nothing else with lrm spread, it's physics....two objects can't occupy the same space, so the blob of missiles has to be bigger around to accommodate everything.

The only time I use a larger launcher like the 15 or 20 is when I have the space and weight to carry an LRM system, I want an lrm system, and I only have one hardpoint. Then it makes sense to have them.

[Xavori]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 March 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

Methinks someone has a nice big "5" the doesn't want to show off..... how about you?

I have a 4 under my name for at least a week or two more, so who am I to say?

Not that that number means much to me. I know my rating is artificially low because of all the time I spent running nothing but lights when I first started out, and because I played a bunch of matches like that, it's much slower going back up now that I win more than I lose. And on top of that, everyone will eventually hit tier 1 simply because the PSR formula is skewed to go up even if all you do is play average.

[TamCoan]

Of my four archers, two of them run lrms. Those two run 3-4 lrm 5s. I would remove the lrms from one of them except for the fact that than I would be left with nothing but srms and need some range.

The archer does not make a good brawler. Yet it's very unsatisfying running as an lrm boat. I agree with the main point of the thread, lrm 5s, and in some case 10s, are where it's at. I rarely go 15s and never run 20s. Would have loved if the lrm 20 actually felt viable with the archer.

[Widowmaker1981]

Xavori, on 18 March 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

It would take all of 30 seconds to tell new players to put AMS on their mech and stay in formation next to all their teammates who also have AMS. This has the added side effect of reducing the number of yolo newbies which in turn will keep them alive longer in the matches and likely lead to their having more fun.

In fact, AMS in formation becomes a normal thing would actually be the only thing that would make me quit playing LRM mechs because unlike all the "ZOMG LRM's SUXXORZ" peeps on the board, I find that they work really, really well if you play smart rather than just hide behind a hill hoping the other team doesn't have any Arctic Cheetahs

Because you are T4. Most of your targets do not have the first clue how to deal with LRMs.

Get to T2/T1, then come back and say LRMs work really well.

[Scout Derek]

Please don't respond to the flamebait/trolls everyone, you know I'm here and I'll remove as needed.

*Resumes cleaning quotes,etc.*

[Johny Rocket]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 March 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

Because you are T4. Most of your targets do not have the first clue how to deal with LRMs.

Get to T2/T1, then come back and say LRMs work really well.

They work really well as my 500-600 dmg average across my lurm mechs attests to.

[Alex Morgaine]

Aw man, I missed the most awesome of posts, all I see are redacted here and there and everywhere

[Moomtazz]

Bishop Steiner, on 18 March 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

Methinks someone has a nice big "5" the doesn't want to show off..... how about you?

This is pretty funny considering how upset you were when PSR came out and you were Tier 3. Didn't you post somewhere that PSR was simply a XP bar?

[Summon3r]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 March 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

It's just basic common sense.

your asking for this, you should know better bishop

[Roadkill]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 March 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Guess Jman5 is a bad pilot then.

I'd like to see you go solo against him.

I have. He beat me every time, typically in something close to a "next shot wins" type of situation, but he didn't use LRMs to do it.

Jman's one of the best lurmers out there, but that really just proves the point. You need someone as good as Jman to truly be effective with LRMs...

And I say that as someone who is pretty good with LRMs, just not as good as Jman.

[wanderer]

Quote

If you make LRMS viable for tier 1/2/ tiers 4/5 are going to be a living hell.

A competent player with a competent weapon layout is already enough to make a T4/T5 player's life a living hell, as many alt account seal-clubbings can attest to. What's the difference if it's being missiled, ballistic'd, or lasered to death, other than the latter two will kill them faster?

[wanderer]

Quote

In fact, AMS in formation becomes a normal thing would actually be the only thing that would make me quit playing LRM mechs because unlike all the "ZOMG LRM's SUXXORZ" peeps on the board, I find that they work really, really well if you play smart rather than just hide behind a hill hoping the other team doesn't have any Arctic Cheetahs

Even then, there's sane ways to deal with networked AMS- namely picking targets at the edges of formations closest to you in order to minimize AMS's getting a front-to-back sweep on your missile clusters. Been there, dealt with that, still got the kills.