65 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

fluff

Appogee, on 17 March 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I don't support anything that would make MWO even more like a cheap arcade shooter.

Yet, MW4 has had this type of game mode... be it hyperbole or not, and people actually had fun...



My question is then, do you really even remember what the mechwarrior franchise was about in multiplayer terms?

Edited by Scout Derek, 17 March 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

Hmm…how ‘bout this, for some fleshing out:

1.) respawns happen within five seconds after a player is defeated, occurring on a semi-randomized point on the map loosely influenced by where the majority of your team currently is.

2.) You can prepare a small, pre-set list of ‘Mechs to switch between on respawn. During the game, you can access an Escape-button menu option to decide what the next ‘Mech you respawn in will be, to try and compensate for whatever the enemy’s decided to bring.

3.) Each kill you score against the enemy is worth 10 points towards your team’s total Victory Counter. The first team to score 750 points wins the Attrition game.

4.) We could add a little lore-tie-in where a faction symbol is arbitrarily assigned to each team, so that they’re fighting for Clan Smoke Jaguar or the Federated Suns or whatever, against another faction full of twelve players. The players themselves don’t have to align to that faction, don’t want to go too nuts here, but maybe you could temporarily superimpose a that-random-faction paint scheme on each team’s ‘Mechs, so the FedSuns guys wear FedSuns paint for that match, the Jaguars wear Jaguar paint, and so forth.

5.) If you can score 30 points without dying yourself, you unlock a special Attrition-only UAV slot, which allows you to call in a ‘free’ UAV at need. If you can score another 20 points on top of that (50 total), you unlock an Attrition-only free Airstrike option. Another 20 points after that (70 total) unlocks an Attrition-only free premium Artillery strike, but after that you have to die in order for your free strikes to reset.

6.) We can also possibly switch the name of the game mode from “Attrition” to “Duty Call”, as MechWarriors from all stripes across the cosmos are called to do their duty. Yeah…yeah, that sounds right.

What do you guys figure? Does that sound like a good MechWarrior game mode to you?

I'm not saying I want this thread's new game mode, but I have to point out that your "criticisms" of it are pure hyperbole and at times outright strawman.

For one thing, the OP said SPECIFICALLY that the respawn timer would be 2 minutes, not 5 seconds.

Also, there was nothing about killstreak bonuses, that's another thing that you made up yourself.

It's okay to try to poke holes in the game mode idea and look for flaws, etc., but you shouldn't make up random lies from the top of your head to do that. Make your criticisms based off of the information that was actually posted.

[1453 R]

FupDup, on 17 March 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

I'm not saying I want this thread's new game mode, but I have to point out that your "criticisms" of it are pure hyperbole and at times outright strawman.

For one thing, the OP said SPECIFICALLY that the respawn timer would be 2 minutes, not 5 seconds.

Also, there was nothing about killstreak bonuses, that's another thing that you made up yourself.

It's okay to try to poke holes in the game mode idea and look for flaws, etc., but you shouldn't make up random lies from the top of your head to do that. Make your criticisms based off of the information that was actually posted.

Come ON, Fup! if he's going to propose a thirty-minute (or fifteen-minute, if we go with the standard regular-queue limitation) massacre moshpit where absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond your kill count matters, you may as well just clone Call of Duty's TDM mode outright and call it a (duty) day, eh?

Seriously, mang. Your sarcasm meter might need a quick recalibration. Yeah, I was being hyperbolic and possibly not terribly nice - but then, I'm incredibly not-a-fan of a game mode where my job is to spawn as often as possible and just SHOOT ALL THE THINGS, with no regard whatsoever for an overall tactical objective or in fact my own survival.

If I wanted that, I'll go find a MAAAS infantry shooter to play. They make twelve new ones a day, I won't have to look for very long.

And as for "they had this mode in MW4...": maybe they did. But I didn't play MW4's multiplayer outside a few brief duels with friends, and also Mechwarrior Online has sort of evolved some since a game that was released a decade ago. I would prefer stronger campaign elements introduced to the game, including in the so-called 'quickplay' queues if possible, than for the quickplay queue to backslide into MAAAS idiocy. Again - they make twelve new Standard-Issue Infantry Shooters a day. Why do we need to turn MWO into another one?

[sycocys]

Attrition sounds like a more terrible version of CW Counter-attack.

I truly don't understand why people are so hung up on a crappy mechanic like re-spawning over actually having interesting game modes/campaigns/missions to compete against each other on. There's just so f'n much MW/BT that could be done that is completely disregarded in favor of generic arse modes with no interesting features to be had.

Edited by sycocys, 17 March 2016 - 09:36 AM.

[Triordinant]

All game modes are welcome but ONLY if they give us back the ability to choose which mode(s) we want to play.

[Scout Derek]

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Come ON, Fup! if he's going to propose a thirty-minute (or fifteen-minute, if we go with the standard regular-queue limitation) massacre moshpit where absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond your kill count matters, you may as well just clone Call of Duty's TDM mode outright and call it a (duty) day, eh?

Seriously, mang. Your sarcasm meter might need a quick recalibration. Yeah, I was being hyperbolic and possibly not terribly nice - but then, I'm incredibly not-a-fan of a game mode where my job is to spawn as often as possible and just SHOOT ALL THE THINGS, with no regard whatsoever for an overall tactical objective or in fact my own survival.

If I wanted that, I'll go find a MAAAS infantry shooter to play. They make twelve new ones a day, I won't have to look for very long.

And as for "they had this mode in MW4...": maybe they did. But I didn't play MW4's multiplayer outside a few brief duels with friends, and also Mechwarrior Online has sort of evolved some since a game that was released a decade ago. I would prefer stronger campaign elements introduced to the game, including in the so-called 'quickplay' queues if possible, than for the quickplay queue to backslide into MAAAS idiocy. Again - they make twelve new Standard-Issue Infantry Shooters a day. Why do we need to turn MWO into another one?

Yet, people when playing conquest, half the time kill all instead of capping, yet half that play assault would rather kill all than actually capturing the base, and yet, it still goes on.

And maybe they did? 1453 R, there was a huge, and I mean, HUGE community for it back then, considering how many actually played multiplayer.

Plus, mechwarrior: Online is, and has been, about destruction, it's written in the damned saying, "The Future Is War". MWO is already a Shooter, why would you want to limit the content one could even have to this game? Why not even attempt to propose an idea, and see how it works for everyone?

I mean, we got domination, a TKOTH type of mode, are all going to enjoy it? No! Not everybody will enjoy everything, but I will bet you there's hellva lot of people that might have wanted it.

I think it comes down to what you what when and what your preferences are, Per say FupDup doesn't want it, you don't want it, and a person or two doesn't want it so far, like C'mon, I posted the SOB idea to get feedback, not berating at a pathetic level, so, next time you propose an idea, just remember this. I mean just look below at the quote below me:

sycocys, on 17 March 2016 - 09:31 AM, said:

Attrition sounds like a more terrible version of CW Counter-attack.

It's pretty sad TBH.

[Timuroslav]

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

And as for "they had this mode in MW4...": maybe they did. But I didn't play MW4's multiplayer outside a few brief duels with friends, and also Mechwarrior Online has sort of evolved some since a game that was released a decade ago. I would prefer stronger campaign elements introduced to the game, including in the so-called 'quickplay' queues if possible, than for the quickplay queue to backslide into MAAAS idiocy. Again - they make twelve new Standard-Issue Infantry Shooters a day. Why do we need to turn MWO into another one?

Still seeing a lot of I want this. I want that....
"everyone should be happy to play the way I want... No I don't care about your opinions"
What about what other people want?
You claim objective based game modes are idiocy, but what's more idiotic than..' Here's your gun, go kill'
This kind of mentality is why no one values light mechs. This Skirmish all day everyday isn't all that different from the CS:GO CoD infantry games you claim to hate.
Different game modes will at least break up the monotony of Kill die Disco pick new mech Repeat.
You're basically, creating your own respawn by disconnecting.

Edited by Timuroslav, 17 March 2016 - 09:43 AM.

[sycocys]

Sorry man, my honest opinion of re-spawns - especially respawns on tiny arena maps. No matter how awesome of an idea you or others think it might be its just not something that will ever work out well the way this game is designed, it doesn't even work particularly well in the mode they designed specifically to have respawns.

[1453 R]

A'ight, Derek. You want ideas on how to make a team-fragfest game mode for MWO, without basically just importing Call of Duty's TDM mode? You don't want anyone to bring up the fact that such a game mode would be a monumental turn-off to them?

Trust me, man - I've proposed ideas before, and had the requisite fifty-seven trolls burst from the bloodstained earth and fling their toxic poo at me over daring to have opinions. Usually with less flair and effort than I put in above. I get it. I also get that some people just want to go back to the days where they could select a Fragfest server in MW4, get in a no-heat no-ammo unlimited-respawn meat grinder of a server, and just veg out for an hour shooting anything and everything without a care in the world. I get that. I do.

I don't think it has a place in MechWarrior Online. Perhaps as options in private matches, sure - but not as a paid game mode in the standard game. One of the things I really love about MWO is that every fight makes me engage my brain or g'damn pay for it - I have to think about where I am, where I'm going, what I'm doing, how to get my shots off without getting hammered in return, because if I go down that's it. It makes the match feel like an actual honest to Bob fight, and not simply a shooting gallery where the gallery targets just so happen to move around and shoot back.

I don't want to lose that. As I've said multiple times, there are fourteen million and seventeen Standard-Issue Infantry Shooters out there to choose from if one is looking for a twitchy respawn-y shooting-gallery game. There are next to none with the sort of pacing and tactical requirements of MWO. Why should we turn MWO into SIIS fourteen million and eighteen?

[Timuroslav]

sycocys, on 17 March 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Sorry man, my honest opinion of re-spawns - especially respawns on tiny arena maps. No matter how awesome of an idea you or others think it might be its just not something that will ever work out well the way this game is designed, it doesn't even work particularly well in the mode they designed specifically to have respawns.

Now this is a reasonable comment I can read.
But, it doesn't tell us WHY it doesn't work paricularly well.
I don't mind the counter opinion, but we need to get to the meat behind the Why; so we can try to fix Something.
Rather than, 'Everything I don't like is stupid."

Edited by Timuroslav, 17 March 2016 - 09:46 AM.

[Scout Derek]

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

A'ight, Derek. You want ideas on how to make a team-fragfest game mode for MWO, without basically just importing Call of Duty's TDM mode? You don't want anyone to bring up the fact that such a game mode would be a monumental turn-off to them?

And what isn't, hmm? What isn't... but that doesn't mean I should just stop right now, because I want something more to MWO.

And about the monumental turn-off? You have a right to say so, but by god, you better have a good reason not liking it, instead of what Sycocys first said, but later made it up by actually attempting to explain why he dislikes it, and a few others, that's what gets me, it pisses me off that the fact instead of offering or expressing your opinion truthfully you have to be an *** about it.

But I guess that's human nature when people don't know how to talk to each other nicely.

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

I don't think it has a place in MechWarrior Online. Perhaps as options in private matches, sure - but not as a paid game mode in the standard game. One of the things I really love about MWO is that every fight makes me engage my brain or g'damn pay for it - I have to think about where I am, where I'm going, what I'm doing, how to get my shots off without getting hammered in return, because if I go down that's it. It makes the match feel like an actual honest to Bob fight, and not simply a shooting gallery where the gallery targets just so happen to move around and shoot back.

I don't want to lose that. As I've said multiple times, there are fourteen million and seventeen Standard-Issue Infantry Shooters out there to choose from if one is looking for a twitchy respawn-y shooting-gallery game. There are next to none with the sort of pacing and tactical requirements of MWO. Why should we turn MWO into SIIS fourteen million and eighteen?

What about CW, people thought it'd be a good ideal for everyone. Is it? No, not right now, but people keep forgetting that it's still BAREBONES, like this idea I'm proposing.

And I can understand about you not wanting to lose what MWO has, but while some may say it isn't, I say it's that and a teamwork FTW type of game now. And a twitchy shooter?

Okay, let's look back on early MWO.

To me, I loved watching the videos, watching how nitty and gritty it could get down to. But as timed passed, it become a bit more "twitchy", and more, and more, and more, until we what we have now. As you know, I came around July in 2013, it was still a bit Gritty in combat, which I liked a lot.


Then tell me, 1453 R, what ideals did you post? What exactly had you in mind for Game modes that people so heartily trolled or berated on a despising scale? I'll find them too if you can't remember. I would go in there, and read ALL comments in every thread, and express what I think Via a PM or here.


Let's face it too, the Mechwarrior Franchise has always been a arcade/shooter/Vehicular Combat franchise, it's written all over the place. It's really hard to change the roots of what made it a game, something that people came to play in their childhood or into their adulthood.

Edited by Scout Derek, 17 March 2016 - 10:04 AM.

[sycocys]

Timuroslav, on 17 March 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

Now this is a reasonable comment I can read.
But, it doesn't tell us WHY it doesn't work paricularly well.
I don't mind the counter opinion, but we need to get to the meat behind the Why; so we can try to fix Something.
Rather than, 'Everything I don't like is stupid."

#1 reason - "mid-sized" maps. We'll just go with everything smaller than Polar/Forest but bigger than Frozen City as a baseline - you can shoot clear across the map. It doesn't matter where you put respawns at, once players have position your spawn point is locked down even if it is behind cover so you aren't instagib dropped. Terra Therma might be the only outlier in the mid-sized map area because its central point is mostly blocked off.

It "might" (high stress to might) work on Polar/Forest/Alpine because you could actually spawn well out of range - that is assuming that people won't simply lance up to lock down specific spawn points - which they will.

#2. This will absolutely destroy the game for new players stuck in sub-par trials with sub par skills. Imagine being a new player dropped in against T3s (much better than you) in much better mechs getting absolutely facerolled over and over for a locked in amount of time.

#3. Its a more boring adaption of an already boring game mode. Counter-attack (which is essentially what this is, minus the MFB) is nothing more than a crappy version of skirmish with a meaningless sub-objective and no way to end the mode other than attrit or turtle your spawn for 30 minutes.

I'm all for new modes, but make modes that actually utilize the franchise's strengths instead of defaulting to boring modes that every fps in existence has simply for the sake of having modes that ever fps in existence has.

[TorinZ]

If MWO ever had a respawn mode, I would hope for it to be something like a WvW setup like Guild Wars 2. One major base per team, outposts to fight over which could turn into spawn points if owned by your side, escort missions for supply convoys around the map. Other scenarios someone else can come up with. Giving players the ability to jump in and out of the mode, but still get rewards based on their accomplishments while in the game mode. Of course, would need huge maps, and a way to have more players than 24 in them. And maybe a Weekly rewards system on top of the immediate ones, based on scores for a week or something. Fighting and trying to hold onto locations might provide players a more memorable experience in an all out war scenario.

But, who knows if it could really work out that way, would be something different than what we have now though. And how would you split up the teams...by Factions. Maybe could be a IS vs IS mode like your fighting in the different Marches...and Clans vs Clans fighting among themselves in some <clan trial name> events. Leaderboards maybe...etc...

[sycocys]

TorinZ, on 17 March 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

If MWO ever had a respawn mode,

Very large persistent maps is pretty much the only way re-spawns could ever actually work in a way that made sense for the game. Short of that everything about the game's current design makes respawning a detriment to the gameplay.

[ChronoBear]

I hate to carry the "We hate re-spawn" banner but.... No

This is a terrible idea and kills the theme of the game.

If I wanted that type of game-play, I would load up Battlefield or CoD.


CW only works because you have a Dropdeck with rules governing the mechs selected.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Come ON, Fup! if he's going to propose a thirty-minute (or fifteen-minute, if we go with the standard regular-queue limitation) massacre moshpit where absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond your kill count matters, you may as well just clone Call of Duty's TDM mode outright and call it a (duty) day, eh?

Seriously, mang. Your sarcasm meter might need a quick recalibration. Yeah, I was being hyperbolic and possibly not terribly nice - but then, I'm incredibly not-a-fan of a game mode where my job is to spawn as often as possible and just SHOOT ALL THE THINGS, with no regard whatsoever for an overall tactical objective or in fact my own survival.

One could argue that the existing modes are similar to that. The difference is that it's a choice between a single-life mode where absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond your kill count matters, or a multi-life mode where absolutely nothing whatsoever beyond your kill count matters. That's really about it.

I think you're greatly overestimating the degree to which current modes have any regard for "an overall tactical objective." They really don't most of the time. Forming up a group and rolling over the red team is the best and most effective way to win every mode in the game.

Mind you, if we were to have respawn modes, I would prefer things like Capture The Flag where there is an actual objective besides just killing the red robbits. Speaking of which, if MWO added a CTF mode with its current design philosophy, CTF would literally turn into Skirmish just like Assault, Conquest, and Domination already do much of the time.


In terms of not caring for survival, letting yourself die constantly is a good way to lose in most of those other shooters. The only situation in which it actually helps your team to do that is when the timer is almost over and you still haven't completed the objective yet.

For example, in TF2 the attacking team may try to all dogpile on the defending team's capture point when there are only about 10-20 seconds left, in a last-ditch effort to try to snag the victory. Just dying repeatedly before that time comes, however, is absolutely useless.

1453 R, on 17 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

If I wanted that, I'll go find a MAAAS infantry shooter to play. They make twelve new ones a day, I won't have to look for very long.

And as for "they had this mode in MW4...": maybe they did. But I didn't play MW4's multiplayer outside a few brief duels with friends, and also Mechwarrior Online has sort of evolved some since a game that was released a decade ago. I would prefer stronger campaign elements introduced to the game, including in the so-called 'quickplay' queues if possible, than for the quickplay queue to backslide into MAAAS idiocy. Again - they make twelve new Standard-Issue Infantry Shooters a day. Why do we need to turn MWO into another one?

There are so many more differences between MWO and MAAAS shooters than just the number of lives. The short list that I can think of off the top of my head...

1. Our characters are far more sluggish than their "twitchier" counterparts in common shooters
2. Our TTK is vastly longer than those MAAAS shooters (excluding mass focus-fire)
3. We have vastly more customization options for loadouts and equipment
4. The differences between characters or classes are much wider in BT/MW than MAAAS shooters
5. Weapon heat
6. Giant stompy robbits!

[Appogee]

Scout Derek, on 17 March 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Yet, MW4 has had this type of game mode... be it hyperbole or not, and people actually had fun...

There is no accounting for taste.

Some people had fun playing MechAssault. I guess you want to introduce powerups, too?

[Yanlowen Cage]

I want repair bays. Capturable repair bays. Bet people would change mech designs if they could hustle to a repair bay and get reloaded.

[FupDup]

Yanlowen Cage, on 17 March 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

I want repair bays. Capturable repair bays. Bet people would change mech designs if they could hustle to a repair bay and get reloaded.

The neckbeards are about to swarm on top of you and tell you stupid things like "OMG, in lore it takes 1 hour to repair only 1 point of armor bro!"

[Scout Derek]

Appogee, on 17 March 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

There is no accounting for taste.

Some people had fun playing MechAssault. I guess you want to introduce powerups, too?

I like how you used a game that isn't in the Mechwarrior Franchise... SMH