73 replies to this topic

[Thunderbird Anthares]

essentially what the people here are saying is... forget 80% of what you learned from MechWarrior games... this game works differently

[Moebius Pi]

Currently the reliable Meta is the laser vomit. With the hub-bub from Russ about changing heatscaling and some sort of mechanic that makes Alpha striking the exception vs the norm, this could all go out the window however.

That said, we've seen no hard details, or ETA when that might be given a whirl, and it's anyone's guess if it will actually kill Laser Vomit at all.

Heatscaling would need to be harsher on some of the go-to lasers (not talking ghost heat) before we'd see an equilibrium with Ballistics; the shopping list of negatives for the latter atm even with lower heat simply makes them too unreliable by comparison.

I could see the introduction of differing armor types denting some of the problems as well nicely (some strong vs ballistics, some vs energy etc. like Reactive Armor in Battletech) like has been mentioned, even being able to be loaded per component like Case vs having to do the entire mech that way, but I won't hold my breath on a content addition/mechlab change like that happening in any amount of time as to be relevant to the current issue.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Moebius Pi, on 17 March 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

Currently the reliable Meta is the laser vomit. With the hub-bub from Russ about changing heatscaling and some sort of mechanic that makes Alpha striking the exception vs the norm, this could all go out the window however.

That said, we've seen no hard details, or ETA when that might be given a whirl, and it's anyone's guess if it will actually kill Laser Vomit at all.

Heatscaling would need to be harsher on some of the go-to lasers (not talking ghost heat) before we'd see an equilibrium with Ballistics; the shopping list of negatives for the latter atm even with lower heat simply makes them too unreliable by comparison.

I could see the introduction of differing armor types denting some of the problems as well nicely (some strong vs ballistics, some vs energy etc. like Reactive Armor in Battletech) like has been mentioned, even being able to be loaded per component like Case vs having to do the entire mech that way, but I won't hold my breath on a content addition/mechlab change like that happening in any amount of time as to be relevant to the current issue.

And it's a system being developed by PGI, which inherrently means it'll need at least 4 patch cycles to be workable.

[NextGame]

DavidStarr, on 17 March 2016 - 12:52 AM, said:

With every mech line I master I get this feeling that among the conventional primary weapons (not counting the weird stuff like SSRM, flamers, PPCs, LB-X), lasers are the worst - i. e. have the worst sustained DPS because of low damage to heat ratio. First observed it with the Hunchback line (4P vs. 4G vs. 4J), confirmed with Stalkers (5S vs. 3H vs. 5M). 4P and 5S are way worse than the rest. Now, lasers are a great secondary weapon, especially if your primary isn't very hot. But do you feel it's a lousy primary, or is it just me?

Depends whether hitreg is working properly that day or not.

[DavidStarr]

I didn't notice any hitreg problems.

[Daelen Rottiger]

DavidStarr, on 17 March 2016 - 12:52 AM, said:

With every mech line I master I get this feeling that among the conventional primary weapons (not counting the weird stuff like SSRM, flamers, PPCs, LB-X), lasers are the worst - i. e. have the worst sustained DPS because of low damage to heat ratio. First observed it with the Hunchback line (4P vs. 4G vs. 4J), confirmed with Stalkers (5S vs. 3H vs. 5M). 4P and 5S are way worse than the rest. Now, lasers are a great secondary weapon, especially if your primary isn't very hot. But do you feel it's a lousy primary, or is it just me?

Tier 4 - you has no power here!!!!!!!

[Daelen Rottiger]

Daelen Rottiger, on 17 March 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

Tier 4 - you has no power here!!!!!!!

ooh come on -i was just joking

[Bud Crue]

DavidStarr,

We might all have a lucky game wherein we get a chance to stand by a corner and let a high DPS Mauler or Kingcrab (etc.), shine without dying in moments. But that sort of circumstance is indeed "chance". If we are honest, the reality is that if you are able to fire for more than a few seconds without taking significant fire -or being killed outright- in return, you are just getting lucky. If the enemy has any sort of cohesion (not even competence, they just need to be conscious and in proximity to one another) and you are engaging for more than a few moments, they ought to annihilate you.

So I guess what I am trying to say is DPS is overrated if not out right irrelevant...for most builds and most circumstances.
Sure there are exceptions, but the general rule is to alpha, twist and move, repeat. Alpha is king. Go watch comp matches. The play is even more alpha based, it is not an insult to say that many of the competitive level matches are really prolonged poke and/or snipe fests. Nothing does that better than high Alpha lasers and to an extent ballistics. I did not start regularly winning (and advancing my PSR) until I accepted that fact. I still try to get lucky with high DPS style play because when you do get lucky it is a great experience (AC2s for nonstop joy!), but even the scrublord that I am must recognize that if I want to win regularly high alpha laser builds plus patience is what gets wins more often than any other mechanism of play.

Last note in re your OP: I am horrified that you consider PPCs to be "weird stuff".

[DavidStarr]

Daelen Rottiger, on 17 March 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

Tier 4 - you has no power here!!!!!!!

Oh look, more 1337 school kids

Edited by DavidStarr, 17 March 2016 - 03:22 AM.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

see, thats the problem

big stompy robot brawls happen around sustainable DPS

pinpoint alphas make this game a boring standard FPS with some interesting movement/inertia limitations

[DavidStarr]

Bud Crue, on 17 March 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

Last note in re your OP: I am horrified that you consider PPCs to be "weird stuff".

Well, I don't own any PPC mechs, but I've spectated quite a few pilots with PPCs for primary weapons, so I've seen how they work. I've also looked at some loadouts for PPC-quirked mechs. Suffice it to say I won't be using this weapon in any forseeable future, but that's not the point of this discussion.

I understand very well what you mean when you say alpha is what wins matches (e. g. Bud Crue's post above). But the fact remains that I take a laser boat and suck, and then I take an LRM, SRM or ballistic mech, and don't suck. Did you find the fatal flaw of my STK and HBK loadouts, by any chance?..

I've briefly tried the new trial Awesome once the other day (also a laser boat, but I didn't notice the specific loadout, except that it wasn't terrible). I guess I can't complain since I've done 650 damage with no mech skills (I never played AWS before), but it was not a comfortable mech to play at all. Heat management is a ***.

Edited by DavidStarr, 17 March 2016 - 03:37 AM.

[Tarogato]

Daelen Rottiger, on 17 March 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

Tier 4 - you has no power here!!!!!!!

Come on, you know Tier 1's don't belong on the forums.

[El Bandito]

DavidStarr, on 17 March 2016 - 12:52 AM, said:

With every mech line I master I get this feeling that among the conventional primary weapons (not counting the weird stuff like SSRM, flamers, PPCs, LB-X), lasers are the worst - i. e. have the worst sustained DPS because of low damage to heat ratio. First observed it with the Hunchback line (4P vs. 4G vs. 4J), confirmed with Stalkers (5S vs. 3H vs. 5M). 4P and 5S are way worse than the rest. Now, lasers are a great secondary weapon, especially if your primary isn't very hot. But do you feel it's a lousy primary, or is it just me?

By far the best proof that low tier players are lower skilled.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

By far the best proof that low tier players are lower skilled.

because they are not using pinpoint pixel-precise alpha laser vomit?

[El Bandito]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 17 March 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

because they are not using pinpoint pixel-precise alpha laser vomit?

Because they do not know how lasers even work in this game.

[Bud Crue]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 17 March 2016 - 03:23 AM, said:

pinpoint alphas make this game a boring standard FPS with some interesting movement/inertia limitations

It may be what makes the game boring, but alas it is what wins. I love me a hard hitting high DPS Uac5 build, but the reality is that is at best situational and at worst a gimmick, when compared to high Alpha lasers builds that get the job done; boring or not.

Its like when I first discovered that a 3LPL Quickdraw was a thing. I hated the thought of it from both a lore nerd and a game play perspective. Yet, I can't deny that it is just a better, more reliable build than most others after having tried it. I may not like that reality, but it is still reality.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

Because they do not know how lasers even work in this game.

Seems to me its more about understanding the current screwed up relations of ALPHA vs DPS than a specific weapon system.

[El Bandito]

Thunderbird Anthares, on 17 March 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

Seems to me its more about understanding the current screwed up relations of ALPHA vs DPS than a specific weapon system.

Right. Hence why OP, being low tier, said what he said.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2016 - 04:08 AM.

[Metus regem]

El Bandito, on 17 March 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

By far the best proof that low tier players are lower skilled.

Not every low PSR pilot is un-skilled, some just lack the time to put in.... Me, I'm a T4 seal clubber, nearly T3, I just don't have the time to put in to rase much higher... That and I enjoy CW more than Quick Play matches...

[mogs01gt]

DavidStarr, on 17 March 2016 - 12:52 AM, said:

With every mech line I master I get this feeling that among the conventional primary weapons (not counting the weird stuff like SSRM, flamers, PPCs, LB-X), lasers are the worst - i. e. have the worst sustained DPS because of low damage to heat ratio. First observed it with the Hunchback line (4P vs. 4G vs. 4J), confirmed with Stalkers (5S vs. 3H vs. 5M). 4P and 5S are way worse than the rest. Now, lasers are a great secondary weapon, especially if your primary isn't very hot. But do you feel it's a lousy primary, or is it just me?

Lasers are the best weapons in the game right now.