28 replies to this topic

[happy mech]

hello,

i would like to propose a change to the quickplay mode and the matchmaking system, so we have blocks that are easier to tune and balance together


part 1: matchmaker
for matchmaking, only thing that decides is the player rank (tier, experience)

• by hitting the quickplay button, matchmaker looks into the pool of players looking for match and creates a X versus X (12v12 currently, but can be anything) match of similarily ranked players and launches the match
  
• (purpose of matchmaker - create balanced composition of similarily skilled players for the match)
  
• then, in the match, the game mode mechanics take over, player chooses a mech/vehicle/suit and plays
  
• (purpose of game mode - create equal field for all players participating in the match and give them same options)
  
• depending on the contribution to the battle, player is rewarded and his/her rank goes up or down, this is reflected by the matchscore and fed back to the matchmaker
  
• (purpose of matchscore - tell the matchmaker how the player can contribute in respect to the rest of the team so the further matches can be balanced for him/her)

part 2a: game mode in general
reasons:

• your mech choice should be suited to the map and mode (not pick mech first)
  
• your contribution (-> rewards) largely depends on the tonnage, so everyone should have even ground (of course quirks, weapons and equipment should reflect this)

how to:
use the things that are already in game

• when you hit quickplay, matchmaker matches you with similar rankings
  
• you vote for map (optional)
  
• you join the map, you are offered 3 spawn locations (can be different), all your mechs + trial mechs and 120 tonnage pool
  
• you choose mech with weight not more than tonnage pool and a spawn location
  
• your mech is dropped and its tonnage is deducted from the tonnage pool
  
• you progress through objectives on the map, possibly enabling new spawn locations
  
• after the mech is destroyed, you can choose another mech with tonnage not more than the tonnage pool and a location when he spawns (dropship comes, no weapons, or can be a mech hangar)
  
• at any point in time, you can click to "give my remaining tonnage to team", this will move your tonnage to team pool (which is 0 at start) and anybody can use it up to reinforce a mech over their limit (so you should have good communication before you do this)

possible other mechanics (leave for next phase after testing):

• you go to the mech hangar and choose to repair the mech, mech is a hbk at 73%, (1-0.73)*50 tons = 13.5 tons is deducted from your tonnage pool (if available) and your mech is repaired to 100%, you can do this only once every 1.5 minutes (repair all or cannot repair destroyed? choose what to repair? etc)

part 2b: specific game modes
examples of how existing game modes could be changed and played out
rules:

• all modes need some background information on the objectives to accomplish
  
• there must be alternative objectives
  
• there must be some randomization in the objectives so you cannot create a routine strategy

typical game:

• you drop in light mechs to scout the area and create a strategy for the game
  
• or you drop in mechs that can hunt the light mechs well, etc (metagame), you can discuss this before the match starts so you have best synergy with rest of the team
  
• once you identify the critical points for match success, you decide what mechs would best for the situation and coordinate the reinforcements with your team
  
• depending on your remaining tonnage, you can leave a backup plan if things go wrong

domination game mode:
you need to transfer some data (intelligence report) before your enemy does

• at first, you need to gather the information (get into range of specific things on map and identify them, randomly placed (for example 6 out of 50 possible locations) and not shown on the map)
  
• only the mech who has identified the objectives can uplink the information (is required in the zone)
  
• there are 3 randomly functional (50%, 70%, 100%, affects transfer time) hpg stations to uplink the data, one inside a base (few walls) and two in the open, spread over map (all in 3 out of 9 possible locations)
  
• you can use one hpg station to jam another one hpg station
  
• you only control the hpg station when there is only your team in the zone
  
• you need full 20 seconds of uninterrupted transmission to transfer one piece of information
  
• once you transfer all there is to be scouted, you win
  
• if the timer runs out, team with most information transferred wins (in case of draw, least tonnage used decides the winner)

conquest game mode:
you need to gather resources to found a colony

• mining platforms spawn in random 10 out of 30 locations, each platform has a random 150-250 resources (that you can scout)
  
• once you get into a range of the platform with no enemy, after 10 seconds lands a small craft to start gathering resources
  
• if enemy gets into range with your team inside, the personnel gets aboard the craft and gets ready to leave (no resource generation)
  
• if enemy leaves, personnel continues to gather
  
• if enemy stays and your team leaves, the craft flies away
  
• each team has 2 crafts at their disposal (they are indestructible, but can gather max 2 nodes at one time)
  
• by shooting at the mining platform, its resource generation is halved for 5 seconds
  
• first team to gather 750 resources wins
  
• at time-out, most resources win (in case of draw least tonnage used)

part 3: match score
to create balanced matches, the matchmaker needs to have an accurate metric of the player contribution to battle, currently match score reflects mainly damage
proposed rewards to measure player contribution (match score):

• reward for sharing information: hold lock on targets that friendly mechs target -> cbills and exp per mech per second, bonus if they take lrm damage
  
• reward for killing mech: deal X% of damage that was required to kill the mech -> get X% cbills and exp of the mechs worth as reward
  
• reward for salvage: mech was killed with Y% remaining -> get X% of Y as a cbill and exp reward for your contribution (=> get super reward for headshot on 100% mech)
  
• reward for taking damage for your team: take damage from a mech that is under fire by your team -> get cbills and exp for every point of damage, bonus if more such mechs fire at you
  
• reward for distracting the enemy: make enemy turn his back to your team (has you in field of view) -> cbills and exp rewarded every second, bonus if the enemy takes damage or locks you
  
• reward for preventing damage: shoot down missiles -> get cbills
  
• reward for saving an ally: if the enemy was firing on your ally and then the ally is not taking the damage anymore and you get the reward for taking damage for your team or distracting the enemy or killing the mech -> get cbills and exp reward for saving your ally
  
• reward for aiding with or completing map objectives -> get major cbills and exp

thank you for reading


edit: created part 2 as it is relevant to the topic
edit 2: created part 1b for example of the game modes
edit 3: restructured the OP to be in more logical order (1. choose match -> 2. play match -> 3. get feedback for choosing next match)

Edited by happy mech, 03 April 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[NoiseCrypt]

So you want to turn quick play into cw ?
And longer matches kinda breaks the whole concept of "quick play".
And you should not be able to choose the optimal mech for each map. This would break the concept of customization and adaptation, which is the core og all MWO/Battletech gameplay. If you want a meta driven FPS shooter, there are plenty of other options.

[happy mech]

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

So you want to turn quick play into cw ?
And longer matches kinda breaks the whole concept of "quick play".

did i say "longer matches" anywhere? more likely you would get instant and more balanced matches

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

And you should not be able to choose the optimal mech for each map. This would break the concept of customization and adaptation, which is the core og all MWO/Battletech gameplay.

like bringing a 50kph mech for polar highlands conquest? and then focus on objectives? lol

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

If you want a meta driven FPS shooter, there are plenty of other options.

i do not even know how to react to this

[NoiseCrypt]

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

did i say "longer matches" anywhere? more likely you would get instant and more balanced matches

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 01:48 AM, said:

after the mech is destroyed, you can choose another mech with tonnage not more than the tonnage pool and a location when he spawns (dropship comes, no weapons, or can be a mech hangar)

Fair enough.
But if you put respawn into PUG then everyone will only bring light glass cannons.. which is even more reinforced by your tonnage restriction... and what do we get.... a normal FPS...
And respawn wont add balance... it will allow the better team to keep up the pressure. When you remove the penalty for mistakes, then good players become gods

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

like bringing a 50kph mech for polar highlands conquest? and then focus on objectives? lol

Not knowing your role as an assault in conquest (regardless of map) isn't funny. It's sad.
Please educate yourself.

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

i do not even know how to react to this

A good reaction would be to play this game better or play another game.

[happy mech]

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

Fair enough.
But if you put respawn into PUG then everyone will only bring light glass cannons.. which is even more reinforced by your tonnage restriction... and what do we get.... a normal FPS...
And respawn wont add balance... it will allow the better team to keep up the pressure. When you remove the penalty for mistakes, then good players become gods

maybe i should have told that all game modes need to be objective-focused, no skirmish
you use the mechs to capture bases, control the map, etc (but game modes should be discussed in a separate topic) so exactly, you want to keep the pressure, decide if it is enough to bring a light to go for a far base or distract, or if you need to bring something heavier with firepower for a full assault
if you remove the quirks and balance the weapons, you do not have light glass cannons

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

Not knowing your role as an assault in conquest (regardless of map) isn't funny. It's sad.
Please educate yourself.

watch as you lose when your team has 1 light?

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:

A good reaction would be to play this game better or play another game.

to play better means to jump into the meta builds?

[NoiseCrypt]

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 04:16 AM, said:

maybe i should have told that all game modes need to be objective-focused, no skirmish
you use the mechs to capture bases, control the map, etc (but game modes should be discussed in a separate topic) so exactly, you want to keep the pressure, decide if it is enough to bring a light to go for a far base or distract, or if you need to bring something heavier with firepower for a full assault
if you remove the quirks and balance the weapons, you do not have light glass cannons

Then you get medium glass cannons... Respawns will never add balance to a match.

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 04:16 AM, said:

watch as you lose when your team has 1 light?

Mediums are just as good for capping as lights are... just as any other mech going +70kph is.

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 04:16 AM, said:

to play better to jump into the meta builds?

[sarcasm]Yes, because improving your piloting and tactical skills should always be a last resort...[/sarcasm]

Edited by NoiseCrypt, 19 March 2016 - 04:51 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Seriously I am not even trying to comprehend if this is a good idea or not because so much of the rest of the game is lacking so severely.

[happy mech]

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

Then you get medium glass cannons... Respawns will never add balance to a match.

lets talk about specifics so we can compare that, link me a smurfy deck of 120 tons (yes clans need a 20 ton mech), consider there are no quirks and ghost heat

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

Mediums are just as good for capping as lights are... just as any other mech going +70kph is.

mediums are at a disadvantage to cap on polar highlands because they are an easy prey, few lights can easily group on them or spot for lrms

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

[sarcasm]Yes, because improving your piloting and tactical skills should always be a last resort...[/sarcasm]

the point is, you build your mech to do damage as much as it can, because game is just a deathmatch, just rush and deathball, no objectives, no perseverance, no need to build versatile mech that can fulfill various roles depending on the course of the game, you just need to kill the other team and cannot choose a different tactic because your mechs are fixed before you know what are you going to play

Edited by happy mech, 19 March 2016 - 05:20 AM.

[happy mech]

Johnny Z, on 19 March 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

Seriously I am not even trying to comprehend if this is a good idea or not because so much of the rest of the game is lacking so severely.

the game has different parts:

• base system based on tonnage (weapons, equipment, heat system, mechs) -> system enhancing the variety (skills, modules, quirks)
  
• player interface (all the ui, map, minimap, symbols, crosshair, distance meter, weapon tab, chainfire, paperdoll, betty messages, night vision, heat vision, controls, help, score screen, timers, gen status, damage glow, cockpit monitors, etc)
  
• game environment (methodes to win, maps, spawns, objectives, alternatives, player count, player evaluation, match score, matchmaking, map voting, rewards, tk penalty, etc)
  
• off-game (mechlab, settings, social, inventory management, mech select, menus, group management, web store, etc)

these are more or less independent parts, they interact with each other but when balancing them you must first balance one part as a whole
in this topic i am trying to improve the game environment
i have also written a suggestion to balance the base system: http://mwomercs.com/...gi-please-read/
they are small steps but hopefully should provide a solid base for the game

[NoiseCrypt]

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

lets talk about specifics so we can compare that, link me a smurfy deck of 120 tons (yes clans need a 20 ton mech), consider there are no quirks and ghost heat

Lets please not talk specifics about a theoretical game mode where you need to change the stats on every mech, in order to make it "work"...
If you add respawns, people will build the fastest mech with the highest dps, without regards to survivability. My guess is that it will be a specific light mech.... but if its a medium or heavy, so what. Everyone will be piloting a rocket powered glass canon, and throwing themselves at the enemy as fast as possible in order to make use of all their available tonnage / respawns....
Sure. The final mech people select might be a "viable" mech... but then its just a delayed normal PUG game, where people have to burn through 2-3 rocket powered glass cannons before they can play their real mech.
How would you even spend 120tons of mech in 10-15 minutes without only using lights....there is a reason that CW games have a 30 min timer.

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

mediums are at a disadvantage to cap on polar highlands because they are an easy prey, few lights can easily group on them or spot for lrms

The answer is not to change the game mechanics... the answer is skill and teamwork.
You are directly stating that the game is unfair/broken/unbalanced/? because people can combine light scouting with LRM support.
Are you serious ???
If a group of mediums get take out by a group of lights... guess what... they are not very good at the game... they might even suck.

happy mech, on 19 March 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

the point is, you build your mech to do damage as much as it can, because game is just a deathmatch, just rush and deathball, no objectives, no perseverance, no need to build versatile mech that can fulfill various roles depending on the course of the game, you just need to kill the other team and cannot choose a different tactic because your mechs are fixed before you know what are you going to play

The point is, that adding respawn will only inflate this. Respawn is not a balancing mechanic, its a win more mechanic.
Please educate yourself by watching some CW gameplay.
When a team is 20 kills ahead, then guess what... the loosing team is not going to come storming back into the match, turning the tide of battle... because they are 20 mechs behind....

[happy mech]

NoiseCrypt, on 19 March 2016 - 09:09 AM, said:

Lets please not talk specifics about a theoretical game mode where you need to change the stats on every mech, in order to make it "work"...
If you add respawns, people will build the fastest mech with the highest dps, without regards to survivability. My guess is that it will be a specific light mech.... but if its a medium or heavy, so what. Everyone will be piloting a rocket powered glass canon, and throwing themselves at the enemy as fast as possible in order to make use of all their available tonnage / respawns....
Sure. The final mech people select might be a "viable" mech... but then its just a delayed normal PUG game, where people have to burn through 2-3 rocket powered glass cannons before they can play their real mech.
How would you even spend 120tons of mech in 10-15 minutes without only using lights....there is a reason that CW games have a 30 min timer.

your guess, ah, so lets not talk about specifics but guess, like 4+4 is 9? or maybe it can be 15? who knows? ok

[VinJade]

question Happy mech,
why didn't you address his question about turning quick play into cw?

is it be because it is hard to find players for CW which is why it takes longer for the game to start?

so lets not make quick play into a faster cw, I like the quick plays because there is less stress with it.

Also I disagree about having more than one mech per match, having more mechs = longer fights.

I say leave it as is, any more and Russ will just screw it up some how.

but then that's nether here nor there.

Edited by VinJade, 19 March 2016 - 12:52 PM.

[happy mech]

VinJade, on 19 March 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

question Happy mech,
why didn't you address his question about turning quick play into cw?

is it be because it is hard to find players for CW which is why it takes longer for the game to start?

so lets not make quick play into a faster cw, I like the quick plays because there is less stress with it.

Also I disagree about having more than one mech per match, having more mechs = longer fights.

I say leave it as is, any more and Russ will just screw it up some how.

but then that's nether here nor there.

i do not want to turn the quickplay into cw, i want to make it generically balanced, so players have the tools to create the tactics

• matchmaker matches only based on the player rank, so this is the only one variable to create matches, you can create a different ranking system if you do not like the current one, but you will always have a consistent matchmaking performance
  
• both teams are same size, with same tonnage pool, thus they have equal potential, it only depends on the choice of the player what tactic he chooses, knowing the map and conditions to win

all the maps are objective based, they do not need to (and cannot) end by eliminating the opposing force, are you so fond of the 5 min 12v4 deathballs? i am not

• imagine the conquest mode as it currently is, just that you can choose which mech you reinforce and where
  
• after your mech is destroyed, you can choose a new mech that fits the tonnage and maybe a new spawn that your team conquered

effect? fights are longer, more intense, often end with all players still playing and not spectating

give it a try

Edited by happy mech, 20 March 2016 - 01:32 AM.

[NoiseCrypt]

happy mech, on 20 March 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

after your mech is destroyed, you can choose a new mech that fits the tonnage and maybe a new spawn that your team conquered

Wouldn't this encourage and reward high DPS/Alpha, big engine and no armor ?

[happy mech]

NoiseCrypt, on 20 March 2016 - 02:11 AM, said:

Wouldn't this encourage and reward high DPS/Alpha, big engine and no armor ?

while high dps/alpha is still scary, it is not as important as in the team deathmatch due to the objectives being spread out over the map
for example, boomjag, big alpha and big dps, very useful for corner poking, but weak at range, mobility is also somewhere in the middle of the crowd

• if you see such a build (coming from a spawn), you can react: run away to different objective, kite him using your mobility, use your long range weapons, or if unfortunate then respawn
  
• when you respawn, you know one of your enemies has used 65 tons for a rather extreme build, you can easily counter this with a light mech that has a lot better ability to do the objectives, or a more mobile mech with better range if you want to take out the jagermech, the game is not over

so i think this should propose all-around builds, as you want to reinforce a mech that can adapt to most situations

Edited by happy mech, 20 March 2016 - 06:08 AM.

[Azurhoden]

From my perspective it's a bit simpler than all this: if you don't have at least 20 minutes to devote to each match (matchmaking included, and no, I'm not talking about CW, but rather I am discussing "Quick Play") then you should find something else to be doing with your time, probably turn off your computer and go back to finishing your home-work, or maybe clean your room, or do your chores or something.

If you don't have the time to spend then go do something else, but stop trying to ruin a cult classic franchise with your first world, me-me-me, bull s-h-i-t, problems. This is not CoD or counterstrike. Matches in this game absolutely should take longer, because in any form of experience approaching a real military endeavour, you will never see the kind of shooting gallery mentality that you are describing. There will be no "lets go run at the enemy so we can get this over with". So, slow down, learn to out think your opponent, not just run up in his face and alpha brawl him to death. But that is probably asking way too much from the LCD player crowd.

The one change that would be most meaningful, IMHO, would be to remove the voting entirely. It does nothing for match times and it consistently puts players in uncomfortable position of being 'forced' to do something they don't like... And then tells them "Too bad... if you want to play OUR game then you will do what WE demand and nothing else" and that is a terrible way to treat your player base.

Improving conquest will only truely be possible once the capture objective is given more priority than the kill objective. Until then all maps are just Skirmish with fancy window dressing that can be easily ignored. And, while the LCDs might enjoy the CoD/counterstrike mentality (I mean it IS moronically easy to get sucked into, just ask both my 10 year old nephews), there is nothing fun about either of those gaming experiences, and that's why I don't play those moronic games.

Live and Learn or You don't Live long

[VinJade]

yeah I agree just get rid of voting all together.
While Playing a match earlier I was talking to a friend who was fighting in a different match(Skype) and they was in a map they don't like, its the new one called death or something like that (I stopped voting as it makes no difference and just play what is chosen) and they seen another player move their mech at the lowest possible speed and take pot shots at enemy players(thus not breaking the rules) because they hated the map.

My friend was told by that player "If we had no choice then it wouldn't bother me as it was random and I would know that no one could have chosen it and it would have just been bad luck"

the way it is set up now it only causes bad blood between the other players even if they won't admit it & you can normally tell by the way they act.

My friend at the moment is in T5 and does his best never to move up because of the way the higher tiers are.

but other than that, this is not cod or anything else like that and should be left as it. quick, gritty, and above all else fun.

[Firewuff]

Its an idiotic idea which is the usual "lets re-write EVERYthing to make my idea work but its a good one". Its never goingt o be implemented with such a heavy lift and makes no sense in any case. walk away

[happy mech]

Firewuff, on 21 March 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

Its an idiotic idea which is the usual "lets re-write EVERYthing to make my idea work but its a good one". Its never goingt o be implemented with such a heavy lift and makes no sense in any case. walk away

its an idiotic reply which is the usual "i dont even bother to read or try to understand what you wrote, it could TOUCH MY STEREOTYPE AND TUNNELVISION"

maybe provide some arguments?

[Firewuff]

A) I read the entire thread and its exactly what I said. this is a non-trivial change requiring massive rebalancing and restructuring of the game, a huge number of new features and wont work for many existing game modes. Basically it doesn't fit with any part of the existing game or structures.