80 replies to this topic

[lshtaria]

Yep the missile bay doors don't really work very well. With the low cockpit, I'm taking fire over hills from targets I can't even see!

Weren't those doors supposed to blow off and not actually form part of the ST? If so, that's another lie from PGI. The whole mech is a lie.

There is now zero chance whatsoever of me purchasing the PHX with $ or MC.

[Gorgo7]

Really? All of you guys can't make LRM 15-20's work on Archers???
Can you make them work on anything???

Me neither, unless it's a quirked out Assault God of LRM's. Otherwise the Big LRMs are generally wasted tonnage.
Until the circular area probability is brought in line with ALL LRM launchers (LRM5 through LRM20) then the LRM 20 and 15's are 10 and 7 tonne wastes generally speaking even with the Artemis system.
So much of the big launchers missile load is wasted with the huge areas they land in and their recycle time is so exaggerated that they really are jokes. Hard and soft counters abound. Until these counters exist for lasers and cannon LRM's simply are a funny niche weapon that works best when used occasionally to surprise the enemy who hasn't seen them for 10's of games.
The Archer is just fine in the hands of an experienced missileer who has a grasp of LRM tactics and their application. I would hasten to add that a team who shows up with 6 missile boats will be in for a rude surprise if they encounter an experienced group with direct fire.
They will get owned.
Run occasionally as a support platform they are fine. Run in groups they beg to get owned.

The Archers is very good as a missile boat what with 3 or 5 or 9 hardpoints. Like all missile boats alot depends on your team.

[lshtaria]

Gorgo7, on 20 March 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Really? All of you guys can't make LRM 15-20's work on Archers???
Can you make them work on anything???

Me neither, unless it's a quirked out Assault God of LRM's. Otherwise the Big LRMs are generally wasted tonnage.
Until the circular area probability is brought in line with ALL LRM launchers (LRM5 through LRM20) then the LRM 20 and 15's are 10 and 7 tonne wastes generally speaking even with the Artemis system.
So much of the big launchers missile load is wasted with the huge areas they land in and their recycle time is so exaggerated that they really are jokes. Hard and soft counters abound. Until these counters exist for lasers and cannon LRM's simply are a funny niche weapon that works best when used occasionally to surprise the enemy who hasn't seen them for 10's of games.
The Archer is just fine in the hands of an experienced missileer who has a grasp of LRM tactics and their application. I would hasten to add that a team who shows up with 6 missile boats will be in for a rude surprise if they encounter an experienced group with direct fire.
They will get owned.
Run occasionally as a support platform they are fine. Run in groups they beg to get owned.

The Archers is very good as a missile boat what with 3 or 5 or 9 hardpoints. Like all missile boats alot depends on your team.

Even with a good team, I've only passed 350 damage in 1 match with an Archer.

I've had better success with pretty much every other missile-orientated mech.

The Archer is completely sub-standard and barely works.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gorgo7, on 20 March 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Really? All of you guys can't make LRM 15-20's work on Archers???
Can you make them work on anything???

Me neither, unless it's a quirked out Assault God of LRM's. Otherwise the Big LRMs are generally wasted tonnage.
Until the circular area probability is brought in line with ALL LRM launchers (LRM5 through LRM20) then the LRM 20 and 15's are 10 and 7 tonne wastes generally speaking even with the Artemis system.
So much of the big launchers missile load is wasted with the huge areas they land in and their recycle time is so exaggerated that they really are jokes. Hard and soft counters abound. Until these counters exist for lasers and cannon LRM's simply are a funny niche weapon that works best when used occasionally to surprise the enemy who hasn't seen them for 10's of games.
The Archer is just fine in the hands of an experienced missileer who has a grasp of LRM tactics and their application. I would hasten to add that a team who shows up with 6 missile boats will be in for a rude surprise if they encounter an experienced group with direct fire.
They will get owned.
Run occasionally as a support platform they are fine. Run in groups they beg to get owned.

The Archers is very good as a missile boat what with 3 or 5 or 9 hardpoints. Like all missile boats alot depends on your team.

I run a single LRM 15 fine on my VND-1AA and on my ZEU-6S. Of course, on both mechs it's an incidental weapon, whereas the ARC lives or dies by missile racks.

[Johny Rocket]

Its funny I thought this thread was about people actually enjoying the mech. Been 20 posts on why its bad.
I bought the $20 pack because I had an unexpected week off of work.
I've had a lot of fun and despite any flaw I have done well in it. Could I have done better in something else? Well how many common mechs can that be said of?

To the nay sayers, Im having fun stop telling me Im doing it wrong.

[Novakaine]

Gorgo7, on 20 March 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Really? All of you guys can't make LRM 15-20's work on Archers???
Can you make them work on anything???

Me neither, unless it's a quirked out Assault God of LRM's. Otherwise the Big LRMs are generally wasted tonnage.
Until the circular area probability is brought in line with ALL LRM launchers (LRM5 through LRM20) then the LRM 20 and 15's are 10 and 7 tonne wastes generally speaking even with the Artemis system.
So much of the big launchers missile load is wasted with the huge areas they land in and their recycle time is so exaggerated that they really are jokes. Hard and soft counters abound. Until these counters exist for lasers and cannon LRM's simply are a funny niche weapon that works best when used occasionally to surprise the enemy who hasn't seen them for 10's of games.
The Archer is just fine in the hands of an experienced missileer who has a grasp of LRM tactics and their application. I would hasten to add that a team who shows up with 6 missile boats will be in for a rude surprise if they encounter an experienced group with direct fire.
They will get owned.
Run occasionally as a support platform they are fine. Run in groups they beg to get owned.

The Archers is very good as a missile boat what with 3 or 5 or 9 hardpoints. Like all missile boats alot depends on your team.

Come Gorgo get real, you know better.

Tractor Joe, on 20 March 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

Its funny I thought this thread was about people actually enjoying the mech. Been 20 posts on why its bad.
I bought the $20 pack because I had an unexpected week off of work.
I've had a lot of fun and despite any flaw I have done well in it. Could I have done better in something else? Well how many common mechs can that be said of?

To the nay sayers, Im having fun stop telling me Im doing it wrong.

Love ya like a brother, but you just can't be serious.
If you are your not using it as a LRM platform at all.

[Ted Wayz]

It is a good mech. Not great, just good for me so far. Still holding out on putting modules in, but even without doing pretty well.

Let people keep underestimating it. Let them complain and hopefully they will buff it. More fun for us!

[Alex Morgaine]

It makes me so want a bombadier just so i can make it useful :3
They'd probable inflate the mistake points (phone... Eh why not) but I'd like to see ballistic slots pinned on g either side torso or ct to compensate. Like a heavy cent ah maybe or something.

[Damia Savon]

Tractor Joe, on 20 March 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

Its funny I thought this thread was about people actually enjoying the mech. Been 20 posts on why its bad.
I bought the $20 pack because I had an unexpected week off of work.
I've had a lot of fun and despite any flaw I have done well in it. Could I have done better in something else? Well how many common mechs can that be said of?

To the nay sayers, Im having fun stop telling me Im doing it wrong.

Oh I enjoyed being in one but that doesn't mean it's good.

[MasterGoa]

The Archer doors should definitely open to the side and stay low...

The way they are now is excruciatingly stupid...

[Druarc]

Very Match dependent, have had some really good matches where empty over 1500 lrms on the enermy. But also had a few matchs where I could barely get a lock and did more damage with the 4 medium lasers.

[Bishop Steiner]

MasterGoa, on 20 March 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

The Archer doors should definitely open to the side and stay low...

The way they are now is excruciatingly stupid...

and exactly what the majority asked for and wanted

[Alardus]

Cathy, on 20 March 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

They are bad mechs poorly implemented, they should be one of the toughest mechs in the game, they have lore wise, twice the Side torso armour of a Zeus, three and a half times the Arm armour of a Jagermaster, they are more heavily armoured than most assaults, in the first edition TRO 3025 only the Atlas, Banshee, and Battle master have significantly more,yet they fold like paper.

Compared to other mechs that are quirked to hell and back, (ZEUS) and this ended up with weak ones, even used as intended as an LRM platform they fail badly. because multiple LRM5 are better than two lrm20's so a Kintaro is a better lrm platform

Listen very carefully. You're listening to fluff of BT. The fluff of BT says a single atlas can down an entire company of stingers (20 ton mechs x 36 mechs). Stop listening to the fluff. The Archer doesn't have cursed paper armor. It has armor the same as all the other mechs. It is not supposed to be a god. It is a heavy mech, and heavy mechs are not indestructible. Stop going YOLO in front of everyone like it will suddenly be the most damage soaking mech ever. Its not a rubber banding 150 kph light

I can run into 2 heavies in an atlas and get torn apart. Unfair? atlas UP? Heavies OP? No, the numbers haven't changed just because I'm in a mech I have a ***** for.

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

and exactly what the majority asked for and wanted

The doors could even stay as they are now and simple open to a 20 degree angle or so, instead, they open to a ridiculous angle. All they had to do was use the horizontal tubes of the mad dog, then the door would only have to lift slightly and the lrms would come out. A lot less stupid looking.

Edited by Alardus, 20 March 2016 - 09:37 PM.

[Alardus]

Milocinia, on 20 March 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

Even with a good team, I've only passed 350 damage in 1 match with an Archer.

I've had better success with pretty much every other missile-orientated mech.

The Archer is completely sub-standard and barely works.

I simply can't believe you. I run around in a griffin-2n with 3LRM5, 2ML, SRM6, and regularly go 500-700 damage, while doing anything from indirect fire to brawling. The archer has even more splatmode with all its LRMs.

wanderer, on 20 March 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Ironically, the -5W works best as a LRM 5 build in that regard, which has minimal spread to begin with. That was the one I expected to see heat quirks on more than anything, given the chassis begs for mass launcher builds.

The -2R can barely get away with ALRM 45 (3x15). The Tempest, if it uses Artemis can at most get 2xALRM20 + ALRM5, sacrificing it's CT energy hardpoints in the process. And we all know how bad LRM 20's are, right?

Spam builds should be quirk punished, not quirk supported.

Like the awesome with the LRM15 quirk. That's the way to do things.

[Alardus]

wanderer, on 20 March 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

I'm getting better performance in Orions than I am Archers.

Because better quirks mean they're better at their job. Ditto Catapults. It's not going to be as obvious to people who don't live in missile boats, but the lack of missile quirks tends to mean if you actually use LRMs, they'll generally feel less accurate (most lack velocity buffs) and slower (weak/no cooldown buffs) vs. older missile chuckers.

LRM5 builds feel it least because they're the most optimal LRM launchers, meaning -5Ws get bothered the least by being quirkless generally- but even then, strap 6x5 on a Catapult-A1 and it'll perform better than the -5W does, assuming you didn't use the extra hardpoints for more 5-racks instead of NARC/SRM.

Huh, almost as if mech+quirk is making mech-quirk less viable?

[wanderer]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 March 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

and exactly what the majority asked for and wanted

They also expected the doors to be blown off when the 'Mech took damage, too.

Which they aren't. It's a cool visual effect that way, but instead apparently it's a visual cue that increases the odds of one being spotted as it suddenly appears half again as tall as it actually is.

Alardus, on 20 March 2016 - 09:45 PM, said:

Huh, almost as if mech+quirk is making mech-quirk less viable?

When all 'Mechs are quirked, underquirking them may as well be nerfbatting the 'Mech in question. It doesn't help either that LRMs are weaker to begin with than most weapons, meaning they get even further off average without them.

[xVLFBERHxT]

Thank you for your opinions on the Archer .

I am not against positive quirks on the archer, maybe he works then even better for the rest of the players. But after reading this thread, one gets the impression that there is no acceptance in the community for a challenging mech in general, like an classic sports car without assistance systems . I mean mechs like the Victor, Awesome, Dragon or the first thunderbolt. A mech one has to work with, to make it viable. I know this is not meta, but we have lots of so called meta-mechs one can use to stomp the enemy.

Anyways, i hope you can soon enjoy your new archers. I see you on the Battle field .

[lshtaria]

There's a big difference between challenging and just plain bad. If I wanted something challenging I'd choose a Spider 5V or any Urbie. They are challenging but also fun. The Archer is none of these things.

[DovisKhan]

Gorgo7, on 20 March 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

Really? All of you guys can't make LRM 15-20's work on Archers???
Can you make them work on anything???

Me neither, unless it's a quirked out Assault God of LRM's. Otherwise the Big LRMs are generally wasted tonnage.
Until the circular area probability is brought in line with ALL LRM launchers (LRM5 through LRM20) then the LRM 20 and 15's are 10 and 7 tonne wastes generally speaking even with the Artemis system.
So much of the big launchers missile load is wasted with the huge areas they land in and their recycle time is so exaggerated that they really are jokes. Hard and soft counters abound. Until these counters exist for lasers and cannon LRM's simply are a funny niche weapon that works best when used occasionally to surprise the enemy who hasn't seen them for 10's of games.
The Archer is just fine in the hands of an experienced missileer who has a grasp of LRM tactics and their application. I would hasten to add that a team who shows up with 6 missile boats will be in for a rude surprise if they encounter an experienced group with direct fire.
They will get owned.
Run occasionally as a support platform they are fine. Run in groups they beg to get owned.

The Archers is very good as a missile boat what with 3 or 5 or 9 hardpoints. Like all missile boats alot depends on your team.

LRM15 with Artemis kills mechs with the same amount of missiles and LRM5 without artemis does


I pull ~700-800 dmg with a Ctapult C1 consistently


As for those that don't trust LRMS, you kill a healthy Heavy like Catapult with ~240 missiles, so those lazor pros can shut it, because you're not dropping a Heavy without dealing as much damage to it due to twisting anyway.


LRM test results, missiles to kill a Catapult (I do my testing in Emerald Taiga and Catapult is the closest mech there)


LRM5 - 220

LRM10 - 260

LRM15 + Artemis - 240

LRM20 - 500+


Yes LRM20 ir horrible, while LRM15+A is the best for tonnage choice, while 5 can have a steady stream of lrms, 15 has the burst damage, it drops lights really fast

[El Bandito]

Bud Crue, on 20 March 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

Also, for those committing the act of blasphemy and boating LPLs on the Tempest (or for that matter an 0xp) has anyone tried a std 325, short 1 true dub (to make it fit without sacrificing armor that's what I had to do)? I ask, for I am curious if anyone thinks the 1.3 heat efficiency is a reasonable cost for doing 75KPH (80 with Tweek). ATM I am running a std 310, which gets me to a 1.4 efficiency at a loss of only a few kph. Just curious what other people are doing in this regard (if they are doing it at all).

Std 300 here, running smoothly. Once I elite it, I should have enough heat capacity and dissipation to go up 10-15 rating or so.