555 replies to this topic

[Adamski]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 March 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Comp teams actually are a great bearing on actual gameplay. Cap victories happen, mobility is important. The prevalence of both Clan mechs and IS mechs in comp play shows that balance is pretty decent.

After the **** show that was the Silken video and all none of the comp players condemning it, I find it hard to believe that they are actually representative of how the game is actually played.

[Gas Guzzler]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

After the **** show that was the Silken video and all none of the comp players condemning it, I find it hard to believe that they are actually representative of how the game is actually played.

Is mechs were pretty strong at that point. IS ERLL boats had more range, cooler lasers, less duration, etc. Balance right now is pretty good, neither side is really hurting.

[dervishx5]

Comp teams use the best stuff because they're tryhards by nature. I'm pretty sure Comps are a good indication of game balance.

If that bothers you then you need to step up your game or sit back down because the saiyans are talking, Krillin.

:sick nerdburn:

Edited by dervishx5, 24 March 2016 - 09:57 PM.

[Stargazzer811]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

What a load of ********.

You left IS to go Clan when Clan was OP, and you are crying that Clan isn't OP anymore.

Clans have top tier mechs at 100t 85t 75t 65t 55t 50t 45t 35t 30t

If you cant find a Clan mech / dropdeck that is top tier, that's due to your own failings.

Yes, the MLX, IFR, SMN, GAR, and possibly EXE still need help, but that's a far cry form an entire faction needing help.


Why yes I did in fact leave IS to fight for the Clans, as is the perogative of anyone in CW. People switch sides all the time. Right now a lot of people have switch back to IS because the big units like MS and KCom have as well, and are now beating the Clans back into their tiny corner. I can say without a doubt even if Clan mechs were still overpowered, we'd still lose to dedicated units as they simply can fight better then the PUG drops Clans run.

But of course it was from IS players, like someone in particular here, that complained because you couldn't get your teams to work together, so Clan mechs had to be nerfed out of balance with their IS counterparts, thus leading to the only available conclusion: future Clan Mechs and tech are hit with the nerf bat, and suffer while IS rides high on a wave of superiority. I and many other Clan players like myself simply want balance for both sides across their tonnage so that we can actually sit down and have decent fights, instead of nothing but IS Assault Spam rolling us over time and again.

If the idea of balanced mechs is too much for you, take your whining and go back to the IS whining forums and leave the nicer, intelligent Inner Sphere and Clan players to talk this through and share ideas.

Also, thanks to my fellow Ghost Bears and Gyrok for your help here. Much appreciated.

[JC Daxion]

Wolfways, on 23 March 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

Or maybe not everyone does well in both factions mechs.
I know I find IS mechs much easier to play and are massively tanky compared to clan mechs.
My wife can't do well in clan mechs at all and has pretty much abandoned her clan account because she thinks they are "pathectic paper-armoured piles of ****".

I get this.. Maybe i just have not figured it out, but i can't play for crap in a SCR.. But i'll keep trying!

[DovisKhan]

Grisbane, on 24 March 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

which is why i suggested MWLL style.. of course that would mean PGI would have to quit being lazy and put things other than mechs into the game.. like tanks, aircraft.. and *gasp* power armor. MWLL used a points and in-match income system in order to gain access to larger units. they balanced it by making clans cost much, much more so only better players had access to upper end clan gear. Clan vs IS was balanced per match, also due to the fact there was a forced que balancing. the game was very popular till this game came along and practically snuffed it out. but MWLL proved the fallacy in your claims of Clams must equal IS in power. there are other ways to do it.. but then that would require actual work.. and we all know how allergic some people in this company are to actual work.





yes MWLL had it's issues, but i have yet to see your claim of 1 guy dominating a match. 1 guy good in an aircraft can be a force... until someone gets their hands on a UAC bushwacker.. then he becomes lunch.

MWLL wasn't Battletech, but it was more heavily influenced by Battletech than this abomination is. Most of the clan/IS balancing is there.. mechs weren't the only thing on the battlefield (you know... because in BT they weren't either). at least MWLL had the honestly to not claim they were not as truly loyal as they needed to be to be called a Battletech game. MWO.. they have no such qualms about lying.

^What you're describing is a grind to win game, yeah, if you like those play a korean MMO

[Adamski]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 March 2016 - 09:53 PM, said:

Is mechs were pretty strong at that point. IS ERLL boats had more range, cooler lasers, less duration, etc. Balance right now is pretty good, neither side is really hurting.

IS ERLL boats had more range, but were less mobile or much more fragile than their Clan counterparts.

Now Clan ERLL boats can add a TC1 or TC2 and get more range than any IS boats, be more mobile, and backup their weapons with either smaller & lighter cGauss for heat intensive mechs, or other weapons so that they aren't totally reliant on the cERLL for closer fighting.

Clans right now totally dominate both range and mobility simultaneously, and PGI either needs to fix the ******* maps, or unnerf IS range. (ideally, just bump Energy Range quirks back to 15% so that IS ERLL have the same range as Clan ERLL when you factor in the TC1 / TC2 which are needed to bring them to similar weight & slot requirements).

Edited by Adamski, 24 March 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[Gyrok]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

IS ERLL boats had more range, but were less mobile or much more fragile than their Clan counterparts.

Now Clan ERLL boats can add a TC1 or TC2 and get more range than any IS boats, be more mobile, and backup their weapons with either smaller & lighter cGauss for heat intensive mechs, or other weapons so that they aren't totally reliant on the cERLL for closer fighting.

Clans right now totally dominate both range and mobility simultaneously, and PGI either needs to fix the ******* maps, or unnerf IS range. (ideally, just bump Energy Range quirks back to 15% so that IS ERLL have the same range as Clan ERLL when you factor in the TC1 / TC2 which are needed to bring them to similar weight & slot requirements).

NEWS FLASH: IS Assaults like the famed Battlemaster are more mobile than Clan assaults like the WHK, DW, HGN-IIC, and if we discount MASC not being usable full time, the EXE.

Proof: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c9ec22e6e6a66de

Mechs like that were what you saw continually. 82 kph long range poking mechs that can outmaneuver clans with no issues.

Now that your argument is obliterated by facts...let us hear some more BS about how clans are OP from the resident BS artist.

[Gas Guzzler]

Adamski, on 24 March 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

IS ERLL boats had more range, but were less mobile or much more fragile than their Clan counterparts.

Now Clan ERLL boats can add a TC1 or TC2 and get more range than any IS boats, be more mobile, and backup their weapons with either smaller & lighter cGauss for heat intensive mechs, or other weapons so that they aren't totally reliant on the cERLL for closer fighting.

Clans right now totally dominate both range and mobility simultaneously, and PGI either needs to fix the ******* maps, or unnerf IS range. (ideally, just bump Energy Range quirks back to 15% so that IS ERLL have the same range as Clan ERLL when you factor in the TC1 / TC2 which are needed to bring them to similar weight & slot requirements).

No, sorry.

The best heavy mech for competitive long range trading is IS.

The best Assault mech for competitive long range trading is probably the Stalker-3H. If mobility is important, than BLR-2C.

Under the extreme range, you see Clan mechs come in to play a lot more and have some very strong options there, but there simply is not a Clan mech that can utilize cER LL well enough to really dominate that range bracket.

[Gyrok]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 March 2016 - 08:17 AM, said:

No, sorry.

The best heavy mech for competitive long range trading is IS.

The best Assault mech for competitive long range trading is probably the Stalker-3H. If mobility is important, than BLR-2C.

Under the extreme range, you see Clan mechs come in to play a lot more and have some very strong options there, but there simply is not a Clan mech that can utilize cER LL well enough to really dominate that range bracket.

Thank god there is another voice of reason in here...

As always Gas, your perspective is appreciated

[Gas Guzzler]

Gyrok, on 25 March 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

As always

Lol, I know that is a lie!

[Dimento Graven]

Scout Derek, on 22 March 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

...

Good luck dealing with King Crabs with Dual UAC/20s, in short 4 AC/20 shots within 5 seconds.

Talk about meta

Just lemme load up my KGC with a Clan XL, Clan gauss, and Clan ERLLs. With the tonnage and space savings I'd add a Clan TC just for funzies!

[Gyrok]

Dimento Graven, on 25 March 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

Just lemme load up my KGC with a Clan XL, Clan gauss, and Clan ERLLs. With the tonnage and space savings I'd add a Clan TC just for funzies!

How about we just make your IS ERLL have 1.5 second duration, to make it fair, and give you LFEs instead?

Gas Guzzler, on 25 March 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

Lol, I know that is a lie!

Hey, I winked

Though, since we have resolved talking past each other, we do seem to be on the same level on most things...

[Dimento Graven]

Gyrok, on 25 March 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

How about we just make your IS ERLL have 1.5 second duration, to make it fair, and give you LFEs instead?

With the tonnage and space savings, fine. I'd just load up a THIRD Clan ERLL and easily make up any 'duration issues' with the LARGER available alpha.

[Gyrok]

Dimento Graven, on 25 March 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

With the tonnage and space savings, fine. I'd just load up a THIRD Clan ERLL and easily make up any 'duration issues' with the LARGER available alpha.

Great, you can have ghost heat on your 3rd ERLL that gives you the damage of 3 and the heat of 5 ERLLs.

Have fun with that since you cannot fire 3 at once with clans. Where you get your 27 damage from the IS ERLL firing 3 at once, we only get to have 2 at once for 22 damage and slightly less heat than you get for your 27 damage. Plus longer burn duration.

If you actually played any clan mechs at all, you would realize that what you are asking would actually nerf your IS mechs, because the CERLL is pretty much the worst laser in the game...

[Dimento Graven]

Gyrok, on 25 March 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Great, you can have ghost heat on your 3rd ERLL that gives you the damage of 3 and the heat of 5 ERLLs.

Have fun with that since you cannot fire 3 at once with clans. Where you get your 27 damage from the IS ERLL firing 3 at once, we only get to have 2 at once for 22 damage and slightly less heat than you get for your 27 damage. Plus longer burn duration.

If you actually played any clan mechs at all, you would realize that what you are asking would actually nerf your IS mechs, because the CERLL is pretty much the worst laser in the game...

See, unlike the majority of players who play as mindless minions of mediocrity, I'd just not fire my 3ERLL's as much, and as a matter of fact, I wouldn't NEED TO with the extra damage I'd be putting out.

And EVEN IF I finally came to the conclusion that I couldn't manage the heat through 'selective shots' and 'occasionally switching to chain fire', or utilizing some of the available weight and space to grant me MOAR heat sinks, I'd just switch to 4 ERMLs and still have quite the range advantage over a significant portion of IS 'mechs out there.

Gyrok, this incessant whine that Clanners do about their beam duration is NOT doing them ANY damn good. They get smaller, lighter, longer reaching, and harder hitting beams, that stacks with the FREE case (should they also decide to load up some ammo based weapons), that stacks with smaller heat sinks, that stacks with their better Clan TC's, that stacks with uber durable Clan XLs, so on and so forth, all adding up to allow for, typically TON-FOR-TON, larger alphas on faster and more durable platforms.

So some of the Clan weapons have ONE OR TWO draw backs, with ALL THAT OTHER FREEBIE crap they're getting, there is still an imbalance in the favor of the Clans.

All I see are Clans wanting their 'cake and to eat it too'. You boil down their arguments and they're all "This game won't be balanced until Clanners are superior in EVERY way." Which is to say, "I'm in a Clan 'mech, I should be invulnerable to IS 'mechs."

[Gyrok]

Dimento Graven, on 25 March 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

See, unlike the majority of players who play as mindless minions of mediocrity, I'd just not fire my 3ERLL's as much, and as a matter of fact, I wouldn't NEED TO with the extra damage I'd be putting out.

And EVEN IF I finally came to the conclusion that I couldn't manage the heat through 'selective shots' and 'occasionally switching to chain fire', or utilizing some of the available weight and space to grant me MOAR heat sinks, I'd just switch to 4 ERMLs and still have quite the range advantage over a significant portion of IS 'mechs out there.

Gyrok, this incessant whine that Clanners do about their beam duration is NOT doing them ANY damn good. They get smaller, lighter, longer reaching, and harder hitting beams, that stacks with the FREE case (should they also decide to load up some ammo based weapons), that stacks with smaller heat sinks, that stacks with their better Clan TC's, that stacks with uber durable Clan XLs, so on and so forth, all adding up to allow for, typically TON-FOR-TON, larger alphas on faster and more durable platforms.

So some of the Clan weapons have ONE OR TWO draw backs, with ALL THAT OTHER FREEBIE crap they're getting, there is still an imbalance in the favor of the Clans.

All I see are Clans wanting their 'cake and to eat it too'. You boil down their arguments and they're all "This game won't be balanced until Clanners are superior in EVERY way." Which is to say, "I'm in a Clan 'mech, I should be invulnerable to IS 'mechs."

I will pose a question to you then, since you are so confident.

Why are most comp decks bringing more IS than clan mechs, and in fact, only bring as many clan mechs as they do because there is a required minimum number of clan mechs in some leagues.

Were it not for those required minimums, many comp teams might not bother to bring any clan mechs, or perhaps 1 or 2 situationally.

So, if Clan tech is outright superior, why is IS tech the rule of the day in top competitive play where every advantage is required to win?

EDIT: Just FYI, as well, you NEVER see CERLLs in comp outside of very extreme cases on maps with lots of open ground.

Edited by Gyrok, 25 March 2016 - 10:23 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

The dumbest part of MWO is how nerfed the clans are.

[MajorLeeHung]

Apnu, on 22 March 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

Because PGI wants every mech, ton-for-ton, to be equal. And PGI wants mixed tech teams, and PGI wants the game to always be 12v12.

The clans get all kinds of bennies the IS don't. Free CASE on everything. lighter, smaller, and longer range weapons. Two slot heat sinks. Two slot per torso XL engines. All of which is in the original source books and canon of Battletech.

So to compensate for that, and some model design advantages like the SCR, they get bad quirks to make them competitive against the IS in a generic sense.

Pity because the IS should be about brawling and endurance, and the clans should be about range, but not so.

It also hurts the game that PGI still hasn't figured out how to make "community warfare" an actual pillar of the game instead of a mode for comp teams on crappy maps.

If they took a IS map centric view of the game. Were all games mattered to the outcome of the IS map in some way, where players were encouraged to pick a faction and stick with it, maybe allow players to have multiple pilots in different factions, then we can have less negative Clan quirks.

Imagine if taking a clan mech meant you were stuck on a clan only team and had 10 players on the team. And maybe you'd face another clan team of the same rough weight, or maybe you faced an IS team of 12, but also less quirks and more brawly, that would be fun and BT/MW fluffy.

Imagine also that PUG games were faction based, generic one-off brawls like the above (IS v IS, Clan v Clan, or IS v Clan) but the winning of the game meant some kind of faction perk. Like a flash sale of some kind. Or cheaper mech purchases because that planet makes x mech and your faction or "race" owns it.

You could still have the Invasion mode, initiated by teams wanting to open attack lanes and/or challenge other teams.

Its win-win for everybody.

But PGI isn't there yet. So we keep this wall between the Quick Play players and the Faction Warfare player, and because Quick Play is such a mix-and-match slop bucket, IS and clan tech has to be equal. Which ruins the feel and immersion of the game.

Best post in this thread +1

[SplashDown]

Mister Blastman, on 25 March 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

The dumbest part of MWO is how nerfed the clans are.

Agreed..PGI did a good job bringing IS mechs up to speed for balance..BUT they also went overboard neffing clan mechs.
Even tho im really enjoying the game atm...i also have to reconise that dew to the mega nerf many clan mechs that wer once good mechs are seldom used anymore dew to the mega nerf..Some clan mechs are fine and in tune with game while the vast majority of these mechs while useable are in fact not used much any more becuz they are over nerfed....these specific mechs need some fine tuning to bring them back in line with rest of game.