555 replies to this topic

[Thrudvangar]

Avalon91211, on 22 March 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

I know there's probably dozens if not hundreds of forum posts on this subject, but one more won't hurt. Todays topic: Why Clan Mechs can't survive 30 seconds in a fight. Sure, very good players on the Clan side can make their mechs survive 20 minutes or more per match, but generally speaking, even they get rolled over when the Inner Sphere spams 3 Assault mechs per drop deck with nothing but AC/s and LRMs.

Now don't think I'm against the Inner Sphere. In fact I love IS Mechs and have fought for Davion in the past. I am just irked by the fact that even an IS PUG has a 50% better chance of rolling over a Clan PUG then the Clan's have of doing the same. Clan mechs should be superior to IS Mechs in almost every aspect, from their speed to their weapons, they should be able to wipe the floor with a 100 Ton Atlas within a moderate time frame.

Instead it takes 8 Clan mechs firing to bring down an IS Assault mech and sometimes even IS Heavy mechs. Meanwhile, our Dire Wolves and Executioners get cored to death in quiet corners by IS Light mechs. Do you see something wrong with that picture PGI, because myself and many other Clan Mechwarriors do. When I walk into a Clan v IS drop now, I completely expect to lose, because Clan mechs don't have the stopping power or armor to do anything to stop an IS Assault Rush. Furthermore, mechs like the Grasshopper and Black Knight, as Heavy mechs, are often carrying as much armor as assault mechs, and just as much firepower. That makes them even harder to take down, when they should be easier to take out.

Now Clan mechs carry a lot of firepower true, but when our weapons and our armor is nerfed to hell, it means jack compared to the IS mechs. So now, I am begging here, please fully unnerf the Clan mechs and find another way to balance it out so that the IS players don't whine about it. If you have to, do 10v12, a binary against a company. Just make it so the Clans have a chance here.

So now I leave it to you, fellow Mechwarriors, lets discuss.

Sorry, thats nonsense.

After playing again since a few weeks, i switched from playing IS only mechs to my timberwolf today and i did WAY better than in any of my IS mechs since weaks and the months before my break...

I push out a hell of a lot more damage plus i can soak up alot more damage as i could do in my IS mechs. I was a wonderfull experience today, thats how MWO should be played... also on IS side... they just die too fast, even with a standard engine.


Edit: but ok, only played the TBR today, but i decided playing more clan right now, IS is just too frustrating for me right now. Playing my TBR today showed me how this game can be fun again without being OP but it felt better than IS.

Edited by Thrudvangar, 22 March 2016 - 12:55 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Apnu,

Heck of a post above. No sarcasm, and straight forward run down of the differences that affect balance. Probably the most concise and well put summary that i have seen on these forums and without obvious slant or bias. Someone give him a rousing applause gif please.

[dervishx5]

Because it has cinnamon swirls in every bite!

[TKSax]

SplashDown, on 22 March 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Its typical PGI they brought IS mechs in line for balance but they also OVER NERFED many clan mechs to the point they are unworthy of being played....i would say 80% of all clan mechs are now not worth playing compared to the 20% that still remain viable.

Its probably the same percentage for the IS, 20% are viable and 80% need help, there just happens to be a lot more IS mechs in game.

[Metus regem]

dervishx5, on 22 March 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Because it has cinnamon swirls in every bite!

A like the Thug....

[Pariah Devalis]

Metus regem, on 22 March 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

A like the Thug....

Me too, actually. I mean, I wouldn't pilot it, because I absolutely detest the yellow/orange/brown/whatever cockpit UI color of IS mechs (and hated it since closed beta), but it is one of the mechs I would like to see.

Then again, I also want to see the Hatamoto series....

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 March 2016 - 12:55 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

Both side have mechs that range from situational to window dressing only. Clans suffer more form that due to having a smaller mech pool to work with. But unlike IS that may have chassis variants that are bad, Clans can simply change omnipods.

[Richard Hazen]

There has to be skill involved otherwise there's no point in playing the game. Even the the cartoon series the IS mechs did several times because of skill.

[SplashDown]

Lupis Volk, on 22 March 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Both side have mechs that range from situational to window dressing only. Clans suffer more form that due to having a smaller mech pool to work with. But unlike IS that may have chassis variants that are bad, Clans can simply change omnipods.

True but the mega nerf that clan got was so bad that even omni swapping doesnt do a thing to make the clan mech playable.

Edited by SplashDown, 22 March 2016 - 01:02 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

SplashDown, on 22 March 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

True but the mega nerf that clan got was so bad that even omni swapping doesnt do a thing to make the clan mech playable.

Hmm well one thing Clanners forget is this is a multiplayer game. You can't have one side better than the other no matter what.

Clanners want to be gods among men with no weakness. You can't do that unless you want the game to sink fast.

Also i find it hilarious that clanners why, cry and moan whenever the clan mechs get touched unless it's to break them and make them overpowered.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 22 March 2016 - 01:15 PM.

[Alardus]

Lupis Volk, on 22 March 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Hmm well one thing Clanners forget is this is a multiplayer game. You can't have one side better than the other no matter what.

Clanners want to be gods among men with no weakness. You can't do that unless you want the game to sink fast.

Also i find it hilarious that clanners why, cry and moan whenever the clan mechs get touched unless it's to break them and make them overpowered.

Oh stop. Just make it 8 vs 12, or 5 vs 8, then clan can be "gods" all they want.

All they'd need to do is silently change what queue you go in depending on mech. IF you pick IS, you get IS queue slotted.

Edited by Alardus, 22 March 2016 - 01:20 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Lupis Volk, on 22 March 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

Hmm well one thing Clanners forget is this is a multiplayer game. You can't have one side better than the other no matter what.

Clanners want to be gods among men with no weakness. You can't do that unless you want the game to sink fast.

Also i find it hilarious that clanners why, cry and moan whenever the clan mechs get touched unless it's to break them and make them overpowered.

Oh look. One IS fanboy makes a blanket statement about Clan pilots, therefore all IS pilots overgeneralize people.

See what I did there?

You're so far off base it isn't even funny. What it seems like MOST Clan pilots want are multiple good options in each weight class. We don't want to be a liability to the team if we take something other than the holy trinity heavy mechs or the Stormcrow or the ACH. We want our options to actually be options. This does not mean making the good mechs better.

I'm going to repeat that. This does not mean making the good mechs better.

That defeats the purpose altogether. What it does mean is we want to bring the underperforming mechs up to an acceptable level of capability such that they provide a meaningful choice in their given weight class.

I'm pretty sure most IS pilots feel the same about their own bad mechs. The thing is, the Clans have far fewer options to sift through by comparison. It really limits our choices, here.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 March 2016 - 01:21 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 March 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

You say that laser vomit is the problem, yet SRMs and Autocannons have an extremely strong foothold in high level play. Saying laser vomit is the ONLY "problem" is wrong.

FTFY~!

[Lupis Volk]

Pariah Devalis, on 22 March 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

Oh look. One IS fanboy makes a blanket statement about Clan pilots, therefore all IS pilots overgeneralize people.

See what I did there?

You're so far off base it isn't even funny. What it seems like MOST Clan pilots want are multiple good options in each weight class. We don't want to be a liability to the team if we take something other than the holy trinity heavy mechs or the Stormcrow or the ACH. We want our options to actually be options. This does not mean making the good mechs better.

I'm going to repeat that. This does not mean making the good mechs better.


That defeats the purpose altogether. It means bringing the underperforming mechs up to an acceptable level of capability such that they provide a meaningful choice in their given weight class.

IS fanboy? I have clan and IS mechs. I love my clan mechs more than my IS. I have no horse in the IS vs Clans race. I'm just pointing out what i've seen on the forum.

Let's be fair here on the forum Clanners cry a fair bit at anything.

Yeah you may not want the good mechs better but there is a sizeable element that want the clans "ubermechs" made better while the "trash' are kicked to the curbside. I'd love for the "bad" mechs on both sides to be good. Heck i have a thing for mechs considered bad. I went and brought Clan Wave 2. I loved the Ice Fridge and Myst Lynx. I love my urbies and other IS lighst. Heck i want to grab Dragons just to see how "bad" they are.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 22 March 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[Xavori]

This thread is going to be a lot lulzier when the Kodiak comes out and someone sticks a 100 point alpha into OP's backside

[Pariah Devalis]

Lupis Volk, on 22 March 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

IS fanboy? I have clan and IS mechs. I love my clan mechs more than my IS.

Let's be fair here on the forum Clanners cry a fair bit at anything.

Yeah you may not want the good mechs better but there is a sizeable element that want the clans "ubermechs" made better while the "trash' are kicked to the curbside. I'd love for the "bad" mechs on both sides to be good. Heck i have a thing for mechs considered bad. I went and brought Clan Wave 2. I loved the Ice Fridge and Myst Lynx. I love my urbies and other IS lighst. Heck i want to grab Dragons just to see how "bad" they are.

What I'm getting at is twofold.

One, don't make general statements. Just because some loud people of any given faction want to heap god mode on their already good mechs doesn't mean everyone or even the MAJORITY do. Sweeping statements like you made is insulting to the rest of us. Plus, IS players whine all the damned time, too. No one side is innocent, here. Both have their elements.

Two, it's a goal both sides should strive for. Bad mechs are on both sides of the line. There shouldn't be favoritism here. A bad mech is a bad mech is a bad mech, Clan or IS. The question should be how to approach making the ones that suffer better, without also making the good ones even better too.

Also, IFR is an amazing mech. One of my top platforms, tyvm. Also, Dragons are fantastic mechs for learning how to deal with arm motion. A nice training platform.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 March 2016 - 01:29 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Alardus, on 22 March 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

Oh stop. Just make it 8 vs 12, or 5 vs 8, then clan can be "gods" all they want.

All they'd need to do is silently change what queue you go in depending on mech. IF you pick IS, you get IS queue slotted.

So how do we have a SOLO QUEUE with uneven teams?

Please explain to me how a 12v12 mode will work when one Sides mechs are 1.2x stronger then there enemies?

This is a WORSE idea then just trying to balance them on a 1:1 level and breaks a lot of the game. You want IS vs Clan go play CW, that is what the mode is for.

[Revis Volek]

Lupis Volk, on 22 March 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

IS fanboy? I have clan and IS mechs. I love my clan mechs more than my IS. I have no horse in the IS vs Clans race. I'm just pointing out what i've seen on the forum.

Let's be fair here on the forum Clanners cry a fair bit at anything.

Yeah you may not want the good mechs better but there is a sizeable element that want the clans "ubermechs" made better while the "trash' are kicked to the curbside. I'd love for the "bad" mechs on both sides to be good. Heck i have a thing for mechs considered bad. I went and brought Clan Wave 2. I loved the Ice Fridge and Myst Lynx. I love my urbies and other IS lighst. Heck i want to grab Dragons just to see how "bad" they are.

Im am a clanner at heart, yet i have never CRIED at all about balance outside the XL engine normalization.

You statement is a gross over generalization and you are pretty much 100% incorrect with you blanket statements.


Please show me this SIZEABLE group of imaginary players you are making up for the sake of your argument.


If you wanna see how bad Dragons are go buy one and 1v1 me sometime, then we can 1v1 ACH v MLX's and Ferrets against SCR's and see which one is better and which one needs the buffs. Bad Clams need help and most INTELLIGENT people here on the forums fight for that, not a blanket buff or nerf on EVERY mech because that NOT HOW YOU BALANCE a game where each mech is or can be totally different from the next in terms of hardpoints (locations and quantities) Locked equip (or lack of) etc., etc..

Edited by Revis Volek, 22 March 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Revis Volek, on 22 March 2016 - 01:18 PM, said:

FTFY~!

Yes, all weapons are problems that cause mechs to explode. Fix these problems by making weapons to no more than 0.1 damage per second so TTK feels sufficiently slow, and no one's jimmies get rustled.

[Lupis Volk]

Pariah Devalis, on 22 March 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

What I'm getting at is twofold.

One, don't make general statements. Just because some loud people of any given faction want to heap god mode on their already good mechs doesn't mean everyone or even the MAJORITY do. Sweeping statements like you made is insulting to the rest of us. Plus, IS players whine all the damned time, too. No one side is innocent, here. Both have their elements.

Two, it's a goal both sides should strive for. Bad mechs are on both sides of the line. There shouldn't be favoritism here. A bad mech is a bad mech is a bad mech, Clan or IS. The question should be how to approach making the ones that suffer better, without also making the good ones even better too.

Also, IFR is an amazing mech. One of my top platforms, tyvm. Also, Dragons are fantastic mechs for learning how to deal with arm motion. A nice training platform.

Yeah i'm just pointing out a trend i've seen.

Yeah though i think the "bad" clan mechs need to be looked at first since they have a smaller mech pool.

Yeah i have a thing for taking "diamonds in the rough" and do what i think is well.