34 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Probably a majority of you are going to find me, my home, set it on fire with a Firestarter and never hear of me again after this (humor me you know? This is a out of the box idea not proposed yet (I think) ).

I was thinking about it, for awhile. I did, and then decided, I'd want to share it.

Considering a mechs' Skill Tree consists of pluses for heat gen, heat capacity, accel/deccel rates, torso turn radius, weapon cooldowns, speed boost, powerup rate, and a module slot ( I think I missed one), what should be the next level to the skill tree?

The name I thought of for the 3rd level, is called legendary.
Legendary skills in the Skill Tree are only available after you master a variant (unlock module slot), and provides unique boosts that other mechs may not provide.

The concept is simple:

we include unique skills/quirks/etc. that the mech may provide. The mech can unlock 4 legendary skills, which cost quite a bit of mech EXP. However, the mech can only have two skills that can be used at a time.

Here's an example using a Orion IIC (O)

• +10 Structure to LT,RT,CT (140K EXP)
  
• +10% Torso Turn Rate (125K EXP)
  
• -5% Weapon Heat Generation (175K EXP)
  
• +20% Torso Turn Radius (150 EXP)

However, the Orion IIC (O) can only choose two, either the Structure and Torso turn, or any combination of 2 out of the 4, etc. This way people don't complain that legendary skills in the skill tree are OP and should be toned down, this way, players can actually change what skills they want the mech to specialize in.

I'm also considering a sort of point system for them as well, per say you can have as many Legendary skills you want, but they are weighted in points, and you cannot have skills that go over the 4 points. (This means that the Mech would have to have more legendary skills and such).

Short Summary :

New Skills in the tree called Legendary. They cost a lot of mech EXP and only 2 at a time can be activated instead of all 4 to prevent OP accusations. Point system also considered as well.

[Jack Booted Thug]

I liked the idea of modules for everything... heat gen, velocity, duration, range, acceleration, twist, sensor range, and on and on. probably could add a variety of new skills too. Might even be able to make them stack .... and do away with quirks all together.

And balance mechs by number of module slots, maybe a Timber only gets 8-10 slots, and something terrible like a vindicator might get 20 or something.

You could really customize your mech for a particular role that way. Have some bonus unlocks or skills at say half million or million xp.... give people something to keep shooting for and further development.

But yea, I would like for something that allows for more development and customization than the current skill tree offers.

[Scout Derek]

Jack Booted Thug, on 22 March 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

I liked the idea of modules for everything... heat gen, velocity, duration, range, acceleration, twist, sensor range, and on and on. probably could add a variety of new skills too. Might even be able to make them stack .... and do away with quirks all together.

And balance mechs by number of module slots, maybe a Timber only gets 8-10 slots, and something terrible like a vindicator might get 20 or something.

You could really customize your mech for a particular role that way. Have some bonus unlocks or skills at say half million or million xp.... give people something to keep shooting for and further development.

But yea, I would like for something that allows for more development and customization than the current skill tree offers.

I was thinking of maybe even going a step further, such as for those mechs with special equipment, per say ECM or MASC, get a boost to it's range(ECM), it's capacity(MASC), or even it's velocity(Jump Jets).

[Jack Booted Thug]

Scout Derek, on 22 March 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

I was thinking of maybe even going a step further, such as for those mechs with special equipment, per say ECM or MASC, get a boost to it's range(ECM), it's capacity(MASC), or even it's velocity(Jump Jets).

Absolutely, more options for customization the better. Would love to see options like that.

[Tristan Winter]

There are two approaches I like:

• 0 skills, 0 skill trees. Only actual mech upgrades, each with their own positive and negative characteristics. Such as reflective armour, or inferno missiles or whatever. Unlock special upgrades. Players unlock new upgrades, but they're not necessarily better than what new players are running.
  
• Full MMORPG style skill trees. You choose a spec and you pick different skills to suit your needs. There will always be a meta and a flavour of the month, but the skills will be constantly balanced and tweaked, just like quirks.

I don't like modules and I don't like the current "skill tree", which is basically just a single track grind tax.

[Scout Derek]

Tristan Winter, on 22 March 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

There are two approaches I like:

• 0 skills, 0 skill trees. Only actual mech upgrades, each with their own positive and negative characteristics. Such as reflective armour, or inferno missiles or whatever. Unlock special upgrades. Players unlock new upgrades, but they're not necessarily better than what new players are running.
  
• Full MMORPG style skill trees. You choose a spec and you pick different skills to suit your needs. There will always be a meta and a flavour of the month, but the skills will be constantly balanced and tweaked, just like quirks.

I don't like modules and I don't like the current "skill tree", which is basically just a single track grind tax.

In order to make it a bit more Battletech wise, we should follow the lore a bit on it, such as Dragons get better AC/5 skills, while the Grasshopper gets better Jump Jet skills.

In short, make weapons or equipment define not just how the mech looks, but how it interacts against other mechs and in the cockpit.

Edited by Scout Derek, 22 March 2016 - 01:47 PM.

[Alardus]

make the game harder to balance.

turn it into an rpg.

no thanks. your asking bt to become something its not, but bt is not an rpg-level-me-up game. you are proving there is a market for such a game, but not bastardize bt for it thanks.

Edited by Alardus, 22 March 2016 - 01:51 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Alardus, on 22 March 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

make the game harder to balance.

turn it into an rpg.

no thanks. your asking bt to become something its not, but bt is not an rpg-level-me-up game. you are proving there is a market for such a game, but not bastardize bt for it thanks.

To whom you speaking to, my idea, or Winter's?

For me, my idea is to expand the skill tree a bit more, Winter's is to change into a MMORPG skill tree.

Look, if you think this would make the game harder to balance, how is the game balanced in the first place? In fact, how is any game as of today really, and truly balanced?

And RPG based system. Pfft. Please, there's already a Skill tree, it's pretty stagnant right now, and a few spiff ups wouldn't hurt it. Plus I can imagine how much EXP people have in their mechs, some have 10 Million+ EXP on their mechs...

Anyways, to add a bit to my point system for legendary skills:

If we wanted multiple skills with weighted points and a limit of 4 points maximum, etc. , we'd have to make some low end and some high end for maximum variety.

Edited by Scout Derek, 22 March 2016 - 02:47 PM.

[Roadkill]

I'd like to see skill trees apply to the specific Mech. So not really "skill" tries but rather "modification" trees.

That way you'd have an excuse to own two different copies of the AS7-D... because they'd actually be different.

[Scout Derek]

Roadkill, on 22 March 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

I'd like to see skill trees apply to the specific Mech. So not really "skill" tries but rather "modification" trees.

That way you'd have an excuse to own two different copies of the AS7-D... because they'd actually be different.

This is another point I was trying to prove, but I forgot to mention it, thanks for sharing!

Per say, you could have your "Aggressive" Version of your Atlas, while your other Atlas could be your "Defensive" Atlas. Perfect for CW or actual roles, no?

[Lyoto Machida]

Alardus, on 22 March 2016 - 01:49 PM, said:

make the game harder to balance.

turn it into an rpg.

no thanks. your asking bt to become something its not, but bt is not an rpg-level-me-up game. you are proving there is a market for such a game, but not bastardize bt for it thanks.

Oh, the irony. Lest you forget that this is "Mechwarrior Online"...not "Battletech Online."

[Scout Derek]

I was thinking of making a list of mechs with these so called Legendary skills. Thoughts?

[Impyrium]

Shameless advertising.

[Scout Derek]

Dingo Red, on 22 March 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Shameless advertising.

Didn't know about this. Looks awesome!

[Pjwned]

Adding more grind and more power creep is the exact opposite of what this game needs.

[Scout Derek]

Pjwned, on 22 March 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Adding more grind and more power creep is the exact opposite of what this game needs.

Then why don't you tell us what isn't power creep already

Simply stating "We don't need more power creep" without evidence is like me saying the Cicada is OP. I guess you can say that I want to know why this is considered power creep from your opinion.

Edited by Scout Derek, 22 March 2016 - 04:58 PM.

[Pjwned]

Scout Derek, on 22 March 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

Then why don't you tell us what isn't power creep already

Why don't you start explaining why mechs should be more powerful? If you want more variety with mechs there are better ways of accomplishing that without adding more grind and more power creep, although it would be better for the game if the mech tree was simply removed entirely.

Not going to say what isn't power creep because I shouldn't need to explain, but your (horrible) idea definitely is power creep.

Quote

Simply stating "We don't need more power creep" without evidence is like me saying the Cicada is OP.

We don't need more power creep because quirks alone already ruin the game enough as is with the power creep they cause.

[Scout Derek]

Pjwned, on 22 March 2016 - 05:11 PM, said:

Why don't you start explaining why mechs should be more powerful? If you want more variety with mechs there are better ways of accomplishing that without adding more grind and more power creep, although it would be better for the game if the mech tree was simply removed entirely.

Not going to say what isn't power creep because I shouldn't need to explain, but your (horrible) idea definitely is power creep.



We don't need more power creep because quirks alone already ruin the game enough as is with the power creep they cause.

Haha, *sighs*. The good ol' answer a question with a question. This is where people would get upset and start a heated argument. Not this time

So, I'll indulge you on this one. So, to start off, there's a few flaws in the system that I propose, yes, it'd make mechs more "powerful" as you say, but the thing is, it's not just one mech that's getting them, it's all the mechs that will be getting this.

There's also the point of showing that I said this was a idea, be it horrible or not, I proposed it, so it's better than nothing.

And sorry to go off topic here, but, I believe you're using power creep incorrectly, power creep only applies when new content obseletes the old. In my case, everything is getting something, not just the old.

Wanna know something intresting that you fall under? Read the spoiler, it's quite, and rather, ironic from your standpoint, and many people fall under this category, be it that you fall under part, or all of it. Not a bad thing, but it is a pretty interesting standpoint you and others take on it.

Spoiler

A Power Creep virtually always leads to a Broken Base, with the most "conservative" players stating that the new unbalanced content is an insult to the original game (which might be true or not, depending on the case). On the other hand, there will always be players who like these new add-ons, saying that it actually makes the game more fun to play.

So back to what I was saying, this isn't power creep, which invalidates your current argument of this being power creep, because the new content will be not invalidating or leaving behind any mech whatsoever.

If you wanna know where I got this argument, look here.

Edited by Scout Derek, 22 March 2016 - 08:42 PM.

[Alardus]

Scout Derek, on 22 March 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

To whom you speaking to, my idea, or Winter's?

For me, my idea is to expand the skill tree a bit more, Winter's is to change into a MMORPG skill tree.

Look, if you think this would make the game harder to balance, how is the game balanced in the first place? In fact, how is any game as of today really, and truly balanced?

And RPG based system. Pfft. Please, there's already a Skill tree, it's pretty stagnant right now, and a few spiff ups wouldn't hurt it. Plus I can imagine how much EXP people have in their mechs, some have 10 Million+ EXP on their mechs...

Anyways, to add a bit to my point system for legendary skills:

If we wanted multiple skills with weighted points and a limit of 4 points maximum, etc. , we'd have to make some low end and some high end for maximum variety.

The skill tree as it is now affects everyone in exactly the same way, and, barring the cooldown business, could be considered 'rational' rather than 'magical' skill effects. When a mech starts to get +10% resist to damage from weapons to be a 'defensive mech'/swordandboard, then this is no longer MW or BT.

Lyoto Machida, on 22 March 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Oh, the irony. Lest you forget that this is "Mechwarrior Online"...not "Battletech Online."

Was you picture meant to be ironic with your words? At any rate, BT and all previous incarnations of mechwarrior do not have magical skill trees that give you 10% more rage with each swing or whatever.

MW is based on BT. If you have skill trees that turn it into a typical RPG, its no longer MW.

As it stands, the ONLY reason skill trees exist at all is to give people a sense of progression as well as try to make a paywall that easier to break through with $$ than climb over, what with sales price being half and limited mechbays for F2P types.

Edited by Alardus, 22 March 2016 - 09:43 PM.

[Rhavin]

Wouldn't bother me to have expanded skill trees. But on what? We already get bonuses to everything but armor and structure through the pilot skills we have now. In addition the list of what we cant do through modules already is short. Extended burn jump jets or MASC? Expanded ammo capacity? Maybe lower the range radar detects your mech by 100 meters? But not all mechs can use those unlocks and with the last one ECM mechs would being useing their Jesus box to eat everyone like the last supper.

I wouldn't mind being able to unlock further module slots though. Say another one at 75k exp and one more at 150k, another at 450k maybe. I would love to have derp, seismic, advanced zoom, and sensor range/info gathering or target decay on every mech I own and play regularly. But heck some people have mechs with 1 million or more extra exp on them already.