64 replies to this topic

[zagibu]

In the profile comparisons, the Victor is clearly oversized for its tonnage, but since PGI is going for a volumetric rescale, it will probably not get much smaller.

[NeoCodex]

You can say what you will but I loved the poptart meta. Victor was such a joy to pilot. It pains me to look at them now.

[Matthew Ace]

zagibu, on 22 March 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

In the profile comparisons, the Victor is clearly oversized for its tonnage, but since PGI is going for a volumetric rescale, it will probably not get much smaller.

Unfortunately that's what I understand from Russ's twitter too. The victor will likely be unchanged. Instead the Zeus will get scaled up (I know, wtf right?).

Im hoping for a reprofile of the Victor so that it's less wide and makes up for volume in other ways.

Edited by Matthew Ace, 23 March 2016 - 01:04 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

Jjs have been taken out of mwo entirely. Except for lights.
Heavis or assaults and even mediums simply cannot jump. An entire dimension of possible tactics associated with actually jumping/flying mechs has been taken out of the game. Because ppl whined about jumpsnipers so much that pgi had no choice.
I never even played jumpsnipers back in the days. And they never bothered me. Now, everything happens on the ground. And mechs that could otherwise attack from above or fly over the battlefield are glued to the ground.
Ppcs were nerfed so hard because of whiney ppl that hardly any mech uses these so iconic weapons. Theyre just inferior weapons now. Without mobility or strong quirks mechs like the victor are dead. ****...even a medium like the hunchback iic with full jjs simply cannot jump. It ever so slowly hovers. Like in ultra slow motion.

all of that is really sad. But its what ppl desperatly wanted.

[Revis Volek]

oneda, on 23 March 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Jjs have been taken out of mwo entirely. Except for lights.
Heavis or assaults and even mediums simply cannot jump. An entire dimension of possible tactics associated with actually jumping/flying mechs has been taken out of the game. Because ppl whined about jumpsnipers so much that pgi had no choice.
I never even played jumpsnipers back in the days. And they never bothered me. Now, everything happens on the ground. And mechs that could otherwise attack from above or fly over the battlefield are glued to the ground.
Ppcs were nerfed so hard because of whiney ppl that hardly any mech uses these so iconic weapons. Theyre just inferior weapons now. Without mobility or strong quirks mechs like the victor are dead. ****...even a medium like the hunchback iic with full jjs simply cannot jump. It ever so slowly hovers. Like in ultra slow motion.

all of that is really sad. But its what ppl desperatly wanted.

Mediums have the best thrust in the game right now and jump better then any mech out there.

Just saying.

[Slow and Decrepit]

What we really, really, need is for all of us to twitter Russ and ask for ST/CT help, AND for PGI to finally release the "A" variant. It has more hard points and would be more viable than the others. This has needed to happen for a long time now, but only a few have have twittered him, and most Victor threads die off after 3-4 pages. Most of us that have been around for a while, have still or at one point, played a Victor till Paul killed it. We need to get Russes attention! Don't be rude, just ask for what you think it needs, AND TO PLEASE RELEASE THE "A"! If we have enough people to do this I'm sure good things will happen. The problem has been not enough people out "tweeter" him. If you don't have twitter than ask Tina to let him know what you want. The only other thing would be to flood the forum with Victor needs help thread's, but it would have to stay that way and not fade away after a day or two.....

[Slow and Decrepit]

oneda, on 23 March 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

Jjs have been taken out of mwo entirely. Except for lights.
Heavis or assaults and even mediums simply cannot jump. An entire dimension of possible tactics associated with actually jumping/flying mechs has been taken out of the game. Because ppl whined about jumpsnipers so much that pgi had no choice.
I never even played jumpsnipers back in the days. And they never bothered me. Now, everything happens on the ground. And mechs that could otherwise attack from above or fly over the battlefield are glued to the ground.
Ppcs were nerfed so hard because of whiney ppl that hardly any mech uses these so iconic weapons. Theyre just inferior weapons now. Without mobility or strong quirks mechs like the victor are dead. ****...even a medium like the hunchback iic with full jjs simply cannot jump. It ever so slowly hovers. Like in ultra slow motion.

all of that is really sad. But its what ppl desperatly wanted.

The Victor HAS mobility quirks. Just need st/ct help badly. They won't give it JJ help, so ask for structure/armor help to make up for the slow hover JJ's instead.

[mogs01gt]

Arms quirks wont do a damn thing. That arms arent big enough to block shots for the CT.

[Cabusha]

The JJ system in general needs a rework. They're either ubwr good or worthless as implemented with the current in game mechanics. But this is PGI so broken as intended is the status.

[Khobai]

PGI's whole logic of not wanting assaults to jumpjet is stupid because it defeats the whole purpose of assaults with jumpjets if theyre useless.

they need to buff jumpjets across the board and make the reticle shake until the mech touches down again so jumpjets are more for mobility/defense than for offense. eliminate the the ability to abuse jumpjets for poptarting and theres no reason we cant have strong jumpjets, even for assaults.

Also yeah the Victor needs a CT buff.

Edited by Khobai, 23 March 2016 - 05:18 AM.

[CmdrA]

Really? I took one out last night to play more with it. Still never fully mastered my free victor champ for the additional module slot. And I basically lost my ST armor instantly on my left side. People were all hitting my sides, never my CT. Dunno what you're talking about, OP.

Another thing is it seems to lose its armor, really really fast. First hit I took, what looked like just LRM 40 maybe? Took me all the way beneath 80, to about 78% overall left in one hit, first thing. Its durability is garbage. The victor still is a bad mech regardless. For an 80 ton assault it has poor hardpoint layouts currently for its weight and could honestly get some serious love with mobility quirks or something else. Not to mention its missile hardpoints are...well yeah. They're still the only weapons left I think on any old mech not to get a visual pass yet to fix the tubes.

Edited by CmdrA, 23 March 2016 - 05:26 AM.

[mogs01gt]

CmdrA, on 23 March 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

Really? I took one out last night to play more with it. Still never fully mastered my free victor champ for the additional module slot. And I basically lost my ST armor instantly on my left side. People were all hitting my sides, never my CT. Dunno what you're talking about, OP.

Another thing is it seems to lose its armor, really really fast. First hit I took, what looked like just LRM 40 maybe? Took me all the way beneath 80, to about 78% overall left in one hit, first thing. Its durability is garbage. The victor still is a bad mech regardless. For an 80 ton assault it has poor hardpoint layouts currently for its weight and could honestly get some serious love with mobility quirks or something else. Not to mention its missile hardpoints are...well yeah. They're still the only weapons left I think on any old mech not to get a visual pass yet to fix the tubes.

Because its a huge mech. Compare it to a Zeus and you'll really see the size issues. Its barely smaller than an Atlas.

[aaykeem]

IdolElite, on 22 March 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

I think as has been said the Victor is just a victim of it's own success from the pre-clan time period.

Definetly. And a victim of people not being able to judge by tonnage, but by class. It's got a slimmer profile and is shorter than all the IS assaults of higher tonnage.

http://mwomercs.com/...98#entry3409698
http://i.imgur.com/PUFtFg3.png

My experience with the Victor was that you pretty much need the XL engine because of the low amount of hardpoints, which force you to fit big guns. The hardpoints are spread around awkwardly. It doesn't get much in the way of survivability quirks. It can't shield very effectively, if you watch its side profile you'll see the ST sticking out from behind the arm.

However, I do not agree that it is a useless mech. I actually like it a lot, it's very unforgiving and forces you to git gud. It's just that you need to play a second line support role and most people insist that they go out and play it like an Atlas.

IdolElite, on 22 March 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

Ran my Black Knight for a few rounds earlier and couldn't help but compare it's 75 tons tanking ability vs the Victor's 80 tons and the BK won hands down by a lot.

Numbers. Arguments. Hard facts. Otherwise I'll just reply to your subjective feeling with my subjective feeling that they're both equally squishy. I actually like the BK a lot less than the Victor, it's certainly not living up to the hype for me, right now. But I've barely basic'ed them, maybe I'll get used to them better and start getting results.

LE: actually, looking at the numbers, the BK should be tankier. The VTRs can get 100 points of armor + 50 points of structure in their CT (150 total), 68A+34S in ther STs (102 total). The BKs get 92A+46S to CT (12 less total compared to VTR) and 64A+32S to their STs (6 less compared to VTR), but all variants get 23 bonus structure to CT and 16 bonus structure to STs, plus they're slimmer and shorter. It's a ~10% difference in numbers, plus the size difference, it should amount to one or two full large laser shots, more if you manage spreading the armor like a champ. And that is not taking into account crit shots (BK gets structure bonus, not armor bonus).

Edited by aaykeem, 23 March 2016 - 06:10 AM.

[Mcgral18]

IdolElite, on 22 March 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

I'm not really into the competitive scene and i certainly am not about to take a Victor into CW but just from solo queue experience I could likely count my deaths to side torso on one hand between all 3 chassis. Could just be a symptom of less focused PUG fire results in more stray CT hits resulting in that armor collapsing first.

I wonder if there is a size comparison somewhere for the Victor vs other assaults, it's definitely bigger than the Zeus though.

https://m.imgur.com/a/YGLo3

[IdolElite]

CmdrA, on 23 March 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

Really? I took one out last night to play more with it. Still never fully mastered my free victor champ for the additional module slot. And I basically lost my ST armor instantly on my left side. People were all hitting my sides, never my CT. Dunno what you're talking about, OP.

Another thing is it seems to lose its armor, really really fast. First hit I took, what looked like just LRM 40 maybe? Took me all the way beneath 80, to about 78% overall left in one hit, first thing. Its durability is garbage. The victor still is a bad mech regardless. For an 80 ton assault it has poor hardpoint layouts currently for its weight and could honestly get some serious love with mobility quirks or something else. Not to mention its missile hardpoints are...well yeah. They're still the only weapons left I think on any old mech not to get a visual pass yet to fix the tubes.

I don't know why my experience is different, since you're the second person to say they have ST issues with it, but I'm not lying when I say I always go down to CT damage.

The durability issue though we're on the same page. The Victor melts under fire, I watched a Quickdraw take more damage than me to kill after I died lol.

Aaykeem, thanks for quantifying my feels about the BK lol. It spreads damage better is all I was getting at originally, didn't realize it actually takes more damage too.

Thanks Mcgral

[aaykeem]

Mcgral18, on 23 March 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

https://m.imgur.com/a/YGLo3

That's awesome . Did you just pull this off by loading the models in Blender, or are there more comparisons like these already uploaded somewhere?
Judging by these screenshots, I'd say the Victor is ok in terms of size and hitboxes. The Awesome looks like it could benefit more from a rescaling, actually. Now, some structure quirks for the VTR, I wouldn't say no to

[Slow and Decrepit]

While I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the Victor is the only 80 tonner without some st/ct quirks.....

[Mcgral18]

aaykeem, on 23 March 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

That's awesome . Did you just pull this off by loading the models in Blender, or are there more comparisons like these already uploaded somewhere?
Judging by these screenshots, I'd say the Victor is ok in terms of size and hitboxes. The Awesome looks like it could benefit more from a rescaling, actually. Now, some structure quirks for the VTR, I wouldn't say no to

Blender
There's a guide in the Fan Creations section on how to do it. Easy once you get the hang of it.

[CmdrA]

beleneagle, on 23 March 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

While I'm not 100% sure, but I think that the Victor is the only 80 tonner without some st/ct quirks.....

It's true, all it has is leg quirks while the Zues, Awesome, and Gargoyle even get fairly buffed up CT an ST structures, some getting some nice arm structure quirks too. But ONLY leg quirks, Ok...? But the Victor does have some "Movement" quirks which are far above any of the other IS 80 tonners.

They're all roughly about 40% accel deaccel with a few turn rate and yaw speeds etc. The only other comparable IS 80t that has something similar is the Pretty Baby in terms of those, the rest don't have quirks like that, aside Gargoyle but thats a Clan mech and already is innately faster by a long shot. But as far as structure goes. Never skip leg day, and even then the Zues has the same on its own legs too.

[Lyoto Machida]

Revis Volek, on 22 March 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

Huh?

Quirks have been here for quite some time Like a year, Quirkining 2.0 has even been here for a while now....They arent adding any new quirks until they rescale is done apparently, Except for the Archer, and the kodiak, and prolly the PHX.

Oh, really? You'd think they would have made adjustments by now with all that data they accumulated. Funny how that works...

Maybe we'll get some quirk and weapon value adjustments in 2019.